What does freedom mean to a Muslim

[paarsurrey]

How do they cease? .

Hi
Since they started the persecution of Muslims and attacked them from Mecca to Madina, so they have to desist from attacking truly for which they could provide guarantees.That is reasonable.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[paarsurrey]

Muslims are not allowed to force anyone into Islam if they do not wish to.
Allah however has given everyone freedom of choice and therefore it is entirely up to them whether to accept or reject His signs.
Muslims are commanded only to deliver and spread the Message of Islam, not to convert non-Muslims for this would be a matter of the heart and therefore it can only be done by their Creator.

Hi
I agree with your above words.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[redmars3000]

why dont you say that you cant?

Hassan, he doesn’t need to prove it. The burden to disprove is on you. World history does not jive with what you’re saying.

If you keep up the whole “prove it” one liners, someone is going to have to start the same game against you because it is not a real way to debate. We have been giving you plenty of examples, but all you can say in response is “where is the proof?”

 

[Verisimilitude]

Hi
Since they started the persecution of Muslims and attacked them from Mecca to Madina, so they have to desist from attacking truly for which they could provide guarantees.That is reasonable.

The Meccans stopped fighting Muslims long ago. How is this verse applicable today? Who is persecuting Muslims today?

 

[BelFarfalla]

i`m saying that its not belong to jews but arab (they were not muslims ) now arabs mostly are muslims

The Jews have lived on that land for thousands of years, even before the time of King David.

Yes today most Arabs are Muslim. This is mainly because the Muslim Arabs killed or chased off most of the non-Muslim Arabs. There are millions of Christian Arabs in exile all over the world who remember this very well… this includes my family. The persecution under Islamic rule continues today.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Meccans stopped fighting Muslims long ago. How is this verse applicable today? Who is persecuting Muslims today?

Hi
We are discussing the true principled teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad and not of the ChristianPoliticians or JewishPoliticians or ChristianPoliticians etc, etc of the present times; whoever amongst them is the transgressor will suffer by hands of GodAllahYHWH.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
We are discussing the true principled teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad and not of the ChristianPoliticians or JewishPoliticians or ChristianPoliticians etc, etc of the present times; whoever amongst them is the transgressor will suffer by hands of GodAllahYHWH…

I think that he/she was asking about how those principles and teachings are applied in today’s world.

Who is persecuting Muslims today?

 

[Booklover]

If you are not a Muslim, why do you even bother answering this question? Check my signature…

We all have the freedom to choose between right and wrong. We have the free will to choose to follow the Quran and Sunnah or to not. For the believer, most of our freedoms and rewards come in Jennah, and not this dunya (this life).

Hi Tawheedah! From the posts by Muslims on this thread, I get the idea that our beliefs on freedom are very different. Hamba brought up something very similar to yours.

What do you mean by stating that most of your “freedoms” will come in Jennah.

We choose to practice our deen instead of living a life of fun and partying, sex and other “freeedoms” that some people choose to indulge in.

If someone wants to party and so on, that’s their business. We do not have a morality police in this country, thank goodness. We would not be a free country if we did.

When I think of freedom, I mean things like freedom of religion, of speech and of the press, for instance, not immoral behavior which is licentiousness, and an abuse of freedom.

The problem I see, is that Muslims seem to want to impose their will on others. They believe that their way is the only way to live, and this is not acceptable in a free society.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Muslims are not allowed to force anyone into Islam if they do not wish to

I will respond to your posts in several parts. First: No compulsion in religion: That is not true! This quote is from here.

“Whenever I hear this verse being quoted as evidence of Islam being a peaceful, tolerant religion, I feel mixed emotions - anger at the Muslim disrespect of my intelligence and amusement at their delusion that this line will somehow cause us to ignore the hundreds of hate-mongering verses littered across the Qur’an. However, I also wished to analyze this Qur’anic verse to understand what exactly it means. After some study, I have realized that instead of giving Islam any respectability, this verse exposes its true nature - and the evil verses that characterize the entire Qur’an.
It should be noted that the verse “there is no compulsion in religion” is:
(1) A “Meccan” verse - adopted in the days that Prophet Mohammed lived at the mercy of the tribes of Mecca, commanded no significant followers and enjoyed the reputation of being a cult leader who skated often too close to insulting the Meccan religion, only to be saved by his influential uncle and wealthy wife.
(2) Overruled by Allah’s revelation that any fresh verse can directly contradict/reject any early verse and issue different verses on the same topic. Hence no Muslim can follow this verse as there are hundreds of other, later verses that call for the suppression, humiliation and extermination of non-Muslims and all things non-Muslim. On the debate of following the Meccan or Medinian Qur’an, Islam’s Prophet and the Islamic God have already ruled in favor of the Medinian Qur’an.
(3) Characterized by “Taqiyya” - the Islamic principle and Qur’anic teachings of lying in order to protect/advance the fortunes of Islam -Muslims are permitted to lie, deceive and betray non-Muslims if it helps to advance the cause of Islam and its eventual domination over all societies and the entire world. The Qur’an instructs Muslims to never take non-Muslims as friends nor have any bond with them. If a Muslim is in a non-Muslim land, the Qur’an instructs that he or she may publicly appear friendly but should fill their hearts with hate and enmity towards the non-Muslim society, religion and its followers. This best describes Mohammed’s beginnings as a prophet in Mecca - appease, lie and deceive to protect oneself but secretly aim to destroy non-Muslims.”

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Muslims are commanded only to deliver and spread the Message of Islam, not to convert non-Muslims for this would be a matter of the heart and therefore it can only be done by their Creator.

Jesus told us to go and make disciples of all the nations way before Muhammad came along, and he meant by peaceful conversion, not by force and intimidation

Freedom of speech has it’s limits and does not include the right to insult or incite.

Jesus has been portrayed as a homosexual who has relations with his disciples, which is much worse than the cartoons about Muhammad, and we write letters and protest peacefully and prayerfully in front of the offending theatres and so on, we do not issue death threats, riot, and murder people! Nevertheless, freedom of speech is a basic human right in a free society.

Vickie

 

[hamba2han]

“Whenever I hear this verse being quoted as evidence of Islam being a peaceful, tolerant religion, I feel mixed emotions - anger at the Muslim disrespect of my intelligence and amusement at their delusion that this line will somehow cause us to ignore the hundreds of hate-mongering verses littered across the Qur’an. However, I also wished to analyze this Qur’anic verse to understand what exactly it means. After some study, I have realized that instead of giving Islam any respectability, this verse exposes its true nature - and the evil verses that characterize the entire Qur’an.
It should be noted that the verse “there is no compulsion in religion” is:
(1) A “Meccan” verse - adopted in the days that Prophet Mohammed lived at the mercy of the tribes of Mecca, commanded no significant followers and enjoyed the reputation of being a cult leader who skated often too close to insulting the Meccan religion, only to be saved by his influential uncle and wealthy wife.
(2) Overruled by Allah’s revelation that any fresh verse can directly contradict/reject any early verse and issue different verses on the same topic. Hence no Muslim can follow this verse as there are hundreds of other, later verses that call for the suppression, humiliation and extermination of non-Muslims and all things non-Muslim. On the debate of following the Meccan or Medinian Qur’an, Islam’s Prophet and the Islamic God have already ruled in favor of the Medinian Qur’an.
(3) Characterized by “Taqiyya” - the Islamic principle and Qur’anic teachings of lying in order to protect/advance the fortunes of Islam -Muslims are permitted to lie, deceive and betray non-Muslims if it helps to advance the cause of Islam and its eventual domination over all societies and the entire world. The Qur’an instructs Muslims to never take non-Muslims as friends nor have any bond with them. If a Muslim is in a non-Muslim land, the Qur’an instructs that he or she may publicly appear friendly but should fill their hearts with hate and enmity towards the non-Muslim society, religion and its followers. This best describes Mohammed’s beginnings as a prophet in Mecca - appease, lie and deceive to protect oneself but secretly aim to destroy non-Muslims.”

Vickie

Detractors of Islam need to first get their facts right about the Qur’an.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things… 002.256

The above verse is NOT Meccan but is a Medinian verse… and you can read the background history of Surah Al-Baqarah here to learn more.

And so, the whole argument that you have made against this “**Let there be no compulsion in religion… **” verse in the Qur’an becomes totally invalid as a result of it being revealed in Medina and not much earlier in Mecca.

 

[ahmadhassan]

Hassan, he doesn’t need to prove it. The burden to disprove is on you. World history does not jive with what you’re saying.

If you keep up the whole “prove it” one liners, someone is going to have to start the same game against you because it is not a real way to debate. We have been giving you plenty of examples, but all you can say in response is “where is the proof?”

i can give you millions of examples without proofs will you accept it?

 

[Verisimilitude]

Detractors of Islam need to first get their facts right about the Qur’an.

Defenders of it should also.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things… 002.256

The above verse is NOT Meccan but is a Medinian verse… and you can read the background history of Surah Al-Baqarah here to learn more.

That link said this:
The greater part of Al-Baqarah was revealed during the first two years of the Holy Prophet’s life at Al-Madinah. The smaller part which was revealed at a later period has been included in this Surah because its contents are closely related to those dealt with in this Surah. For instance, the verses prohibiting interest were revealed during the last period of the Holy prophet’s life but have been inserted in this Surah. For the same reason, the last verses (284-286) of this Surah which were revealed at Makkah before the migration of the Holy Prophet to AI-Madinah have also been included in it.

And so, the whole argument that you have made against this “**Let there be no compulsion in religion… **” verse in the Qur’an becomes totally invalid as a result of it being revealed in Medina and not much earlier in Mecca.

The argument is not invalid.

 

[PauloFreire2]

When the Jew and Christian are wiped out and the whole world is fallen into the dark side. What is left is the one religion with one book to rule it all.

I can’t believe the moderators let you post this. I was chastised repeatedly for posts that weren’t half this inflammatory. Wow.

 

[PauloFreire2]

I suspect that freedom to a Muslim somehow involves the active oppression of non-Muslims. I don’t want to be the stooge of media propaganda, which might intend for me to believe that. But, I can’t help but suspect Islam of being violently intolerant. I say this with charity.

 

[ahmadhassan]

I suspect that freedom to a Muslim somehow involves the active oppression of non-Muslims. I don’t want to be the stooge of media propaganda, which might intend for me to believe that. But, I can’t help but suspect Islam of being violently intolerant. I say this with charity.

talk without proofs = brainwashing

 

[Booklover]

Detractors of Islam need to first get their facts right about the Qur’an.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things… 002.256

The above verse is NOT Meccan but is a Medinian verse… and you can read the background history of Surah Al-Baqarah here to learn more.

And so, the whole argument that you have made against this “**Let there be no compulsion in religion… **” verse in the Qur’an becomes totally invalid as a result of it being revealed in Medina and not much earlier in Mecca.

Nonsense! Here’s the proof that the "no compulsion in religion’! is nothing but taqqiya!

*003.085 *
YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Vickie

 

[ahmadhassan]

Nonsense! Here’s the proof that the "no compulsion in religion’! is nothing but taqqiya!

*003.085 *
YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Vickie

first those translations of meaning of quran not quran itself
now let me ask you ,according to you if any one desire a religion other than catholicism ,will he be accepted by God?

 

[Booklover]

first those translations of meaning of quran not quran itself
now let me ask you ,according to you if any one desire a religion other than catholicism ,will he be accepted by God?

Tu quoque!

Vickie

 

[hosemonkey]

Tu quoque!

Vickie

Tu quoque indeed. Look that up in your Funk and Wagnall’s there Amadhassan.
To debate with these people is a waste of time, truly. They are hard-wired to lie and obfuscate, by order of their “religion.” I deal with them as pagans going in, taking into account that their religion and their leader are both false and man-made. It is much easier. Our philosophies are totally alien to one another and there are few common frames of reference. Christianity preaching love, forgiveness and tolerance, Mohamedanism teaching war, oppression, forced conversion and conquest.