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Eric_Olsen
Guest
stop telling me it’s wrong to refer to the holy trinity as
FATHER, SON and holy spirit for starters.
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FATHER, SON and holy spirit for starters.
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Salonika
Guest
Originally Posted by Salonika - No, I think most of them feel they are called to the ministry/priesthood because the want to preach God’s love for everyone.
Reply by Eric_Olsen - yeah and too bad thats not what happens 99%of the timef the time.
Reply by Salonika - So you think you have the ability to see into the heart of everyone - I don’t think so
Originally posted by Salonika - Also I think that what some men think of as as penis envy is actually feeling called to perform roles previously restricted to males. Don’t see why people should consider that men are being demasculinsed because women are taking roles only men could take on in the past.
Reply by Eric_Olsen - because women who think they are being called really do not understand church doctrine of arrogantly reject it. Ordination is not a right…its a privelege.
Reply by Salonika - This was a a general statment and you have narrowed down it down to the one situation again. Could it be that women do understand Catholic doctrine and so are seeking ordination outside the Catholic Church?.
Originally posted by Salonika: I believe real feminists DO promote gender inclusivess, the dignity of men and roles for both men and based on choice and attributes. Real feminists also believe that decisions on moral issues should be decided by those involved after full consideration of ALL the factors.
Reply by Eric_Olsen - Real feminists are confortable with their own feminity and do not need language changed or modified to be gender neutral. The ones promoting gender inclusiveness are the betty friedan types who are insecure with themselves.
God decides what is moral and just…not men and women
Reply by Salonika - But who decides and interprets what God considers moral and just?
Yes, I do think that real feminsts are comfortable with their own femininty - I’ve never wanted to a guy but have been times, less now than when I was younger as roles for women have been enlafged, when I would liked the same choices and freedoms as a guy.
“Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum!”
Reply by Eric_Olsen - yeah and too bad thats not what happens 99%of the timef the time.
Reply by Salonika - So you think you have the ability to see into the heart of everyone - I don’t think so
Originally posted by Salonika - Also I think that what some men think of as as penis envy is actually feeling called to perform roles previously restricted to males. Don’t see why people should consider that men are being demasculinsed because women are taking roles only men could take on in the past.
Reply by Eric_Olsen - because women who think they are being called really do not understand church doctrine of arrogantly reject it. Ordination is not a right…its a privelege.
Reply by Salonika - This was a a general statment and you have narrowed down it down to the one situation again. Could it be that women do understand Catholic doctrine and so are seeking ordination outside the Catholic Church?.
Originally posted by Salonika: I believe real feminists DO promote gender inclusivess, the dignity of men and roles for both men and based on choice and attributes. Real feminists also believe that decisions on moral issues should be decided by those involved after full consideration of ALL the factors.
Reply by Eric_Olsen - Real feminists are confortable with their own feminity and do not need language changed or modified to be gender neutral. The ones promoting gender inclusiveness are the betty friedan types who are insecure with themselves.
God decides what is moral and just…not men and women
Reply by Salonika - But who decides and interprets what God considers moral and just?
Yes, I do think that real feminsts are comfortable with their own femininty - I’ve never wanted to a guy but have been times, less now than when I was younger as roles for women have been enlafged, when I would liked the same choices and freedoms as a guy.
“Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum!”
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marietta
Guest
Eric_Olsen:
Why choose “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” when it used to be “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” ?
So, you have your Father, Son and Holy Spirit. What’s the breaking point for you with regard to feminism? Can a woman have a job? As a foreperson on a construction site? If this is acceptable, should she wear heels and pearls? Or is a jumpsuit ok? Can women read “Forbes” magazine? Can women have bank accounts separate from their husbands? Should they cook dinner every night? What is it that has you in a knot?
What leads you to believe that the “Betty Friedan types” are insecure? Because they think differently than you do, they must be insecure? Actually, I don’t see very many Betty Friedans out there anymore; women have been inching forward for decades and many young girls today seem to take for granted that their options are greater in number without appreciating the struggles which gave them those options.
Kaninchen:
Sorry for the offense. You came on like testosterone and, since your slip wasn’t showing, I erred.
marietta
Why choose “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” when it used to be “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” ?
So, you have your Father, Son and Holy Spirit. What’s the breaking point for you with regard to feminism? Can a woman have a job? As a foreperson on a construction site? If this is acceptable, should she wear heels and pearls? Or is a jumpsuit ok? Can women read “Forbes” magazine? Can women have bank accounts separate from their husbands? Should they cook dinner every night? What is it that has you in a knot?
What leads you to believe that the “Betty Friedan types” are insecure? Because they think differently than you do, they must be insecure? Actually, I don’t see very many Betty Friedans out there anymore; women have been inching forward for decades and many young girls today seem to take for granted that their options are greater in number without appreciating the struggles which gave them those options.
Kaninchen:
Sorry for the offense. You came on like testosterone and, since your slip wasn’t showing, I erred.
marietta
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estesbob
Guest
I suspect he is refering to the inclusive language version of the Trinity; The Creator, the Savior and The teacher.
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Eric_Olsen
Guest
Why choose “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” when it used to be “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” ?
moot point…but thats fine by me. It’s more accurate anyway.
Why do you have a problem with Catholic teaching?
moot point…but thats fine by me. It’s more accurate anyway.
not compatible with Catholic Teaching.
moot point…but yes she can.
that feminists are trying to take their doctrine and make it seem compatible with Catholic teaching.
why dont you read her biography and you will see why.
Why do you have a problem with Catholic teaching?
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Kaninchen
Guest
Well, I was also ‘laughing’ at anti-feminism (calling it an old-fashioned ‘craft’ in a world that had long passed it by), you know.
I’d have thought the rabbit in a dress (Kaninchen is German for ‘rabbit’) might have been something of a give-away!
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SpiritMeadow
Guest
There is utterly no logic to your jump to that conclusion. I have not said a word about what women priests would be like. I assume they would be exactly as men in the position, well trained, compassionate, empathetic, caring, intelligent hopefully and filled with love of God and the Church.
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onmyknees
Guest
AMEN!
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wildleafblower
Guest
I’d like to make it very clear so there isn’t any confusion regarding my message 200. “Catholics may receive Holy Communion outside of Mass, but then it is normally given only as the host. The consecrated hosts are kept in a tabernacle after the celebration of the Mass and brought to the sick or dying during the week.” (1) If the priest is extremely busy after the Mass or during the week, he will give to me or other selected individuals (a small group of men and women) the consecrated host(s) from Mass and specify which individuals are to receive them. I usually take two consecrated hosts to several elderly ladies who have been with the Church for over 30 years and are unable to participate in Mass. I have known these ladies for years and Father is delighted that I do this for him and the ladies are ecstatically happy because they receive Jesus and I spend hours with them. They like to talk. And, I can’t begin to express in words how humble I feel when doing this. It honestly takes my breath away. I leave their homes filled with such a profound love for Christ and all God’s children.
I don’t understand why a woman would want to be a priest. There’s an endless stream of charitable activities within the Church that can make a woman feel and know that she is a living witness to that higher power which is the love God has for us. This is the grace of being a woman to me.
And, I can’t begin to express in words how humble I feel when doing this. It honestly takes my breath away. I leave their homes filled with such a profound love for Christ and all God’s children.I don’t understand why a woman would want to be a priest. There’s an endless stream of charitable activities within the Church that can make a woman feel and know that she is a living witness to that higher power which is the love God has for us. This is the grace of being a woman to me.
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marietta
Guest
Eric_Olsen:
I need to read Betty Friedan’s bio “to see why” - what? Self-respecting women are really insecure?
I have a problem with some Catholic teachings because, in my opinion, they are archaic, they are based on mythology, they are narrow and disallow men and women to savor their own lives.
**My opinion. No, a hundred years of your ranting will not change my mind. But you are something of a petri dish culture to me: a spreading growth which amuses with antiquated silliness. So I keep coming back to see what new adventures await.
marietta
I need to read Betty Friedan’s bio “to see why” - what? Self-respecting women are really insecure?
I have a problem with some Catholic teachings because, in my opinion, they are archaic, they are based on mythology, they are narrow and disallow men and women to savor their own lives.
**My opinion. No, a hundred years of your ranting will not change my mind. But you are something of a petri dish culture to me: a spreading growth which amuses with antiquated silliness. So I keep coming back to see what new adventures await.
marietta
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onmyknees
Guest
Marietta,
Being Catholic means following the teachings of Jesus. In John 16:12 Jesus told the first fathers of His Church "What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and He sent the Holy Spirit, who was to guide them always. He also told Peter to build His Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. When you say in my opinion, I don’t think you are understanding that we need a have a well formed conscience. Conscience is not your opinions and feelings but it is your intellect that bases its judgment upon the natural moral law which is in the heart of every man. It is in ourselves and it governs our conscience. Conscience is the voice of truth within us. Jesus gave us the Church to guide us in His Truth. After reading several of your posts to the men on this thread I think that you are misunderstanding what they are trying to tell you. I am a woman and I don’t think they are against women having rights and equality with men. I think they mean that we are equal yet different from men. We have different gifts that they don’t have. And they have different gifts that we don’t have. I like to celebrate how God made us different. I think that feminism helped women in a lot of ways but it also made it harder to be a women. Before I came back to the Church I went to school, had the career, was a wife and mother. Now I realize what is really important and that our time here is very short.
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Salonika
Guest
I think its great that you find your chosen role so fulfilling and from what you say it seems clear that others appreciate how you carry it out.
But no two people see the same roles and activities fulfilling and witnessing so to suggest that women take on charitable activities (which are very important) ignores that we have different gifts and talents as Paul outlines outlines in the first section of I Corinthians 12. Different gifts and talents sugest different roles. Why waste the gifts and talents of people, especially by stating that particular roles belong to men and to women?
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Salonika
Guest
I would agree that some of the men think this is what they are saying but often their caveats (like being sure that women should be the ones to be at home with the children because they are more nurturing) show that they still have stereotyped views of the sexes.
I think the celebration should be that each person is different and has different gifts and has the opportunty to use them. If men and women want to use their gifts in the way men and women used them in the past, fine. If people want to use them in ways that predominate in the opposite sex, that’s fine.
Yes, having choices can make life harder to balance for women, especially if women decide that that they will take on the traditonal roles of caring for home and family plus being in the paid workforce and men decide to stay with their traditional roles.
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DanteAlighieri
Guest
Neither do we as Catholics dismiss the literal meaning of Scripture entirely. The Church embraces the identification of God the “Father” and God the “Son” for specific reasons – namely, that Christ Himself used these appellations.
Peace,
Dante
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DanteAlighieri
Guest
Because one of woman’s gifts and talents is not the priesthood – just as men do not have the ability to bear children. The Church has spoken authoritatively and infallibly on this. If you are Catholic, I recommend praying about it and choosing to obey, even if you do not understand why it is so.
I submit that the main proponents of the women-for-the-priesthood movement see it as an equality issue; they perceive that women are being deprived of a right, and the result is that many women want to be priests just so they can have what men have. Is that an appropriate motivation for becoming a priest?
Peace,
Dante
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Salonika
Guest
*Originally Posted by Salonika
I think its great that you find your chosen role so fulfilling and from what you say it seems clear that others appreciate how you carry it out.
But no two people see the same roles and activities fulfilling and witnessing so to suggest that women take on charitable activities (which are very important) ignores that we have different gifts and talents as Paul outlines outlines in the first section of I Corinthians 12. Different gifts and talents sugest different roles. Why waste the gifts and talents of people, especially by stating that particular roles belong to men and to women?*
Surely it makes good sense to use a woman’s skills in areas such as finance, administration, plannng social events, reading and dare I suggest it, preaching in the same way as a man with similar skills.
Also if people want to focus on women and the Catholic priesthood couldn’t they join in a suitable thread or start their own?
I think its great that you find your chosen role so fulfilling and from what you say it seems clear that others appreciate how you carry it out.
But no two people see the same roles and activities fulfilling and witnessing so to suggest that women take on charitable activities (which are very important) ignores that we have different gifts and talents as Paul outlines outlines in the first section of I Corinthians 12. Different gifts and talents sugest different roles. Why waste the gifts and talents of people, especially by stating that particular roles belong to men and to women?*
I am curious why you thought that I was only referring to women and the Catholic priesthood - I thought I had made it clear I was talking about making the best use of people’s talents and was in response to a poster who suggested charitable activities as women’s particular area of service. I also avoided the topic because it is clear that some readers would ignore my post if I did or their replies would not be polite like yours.
Surely it makes good sense to use a woman’s skills in areas such as finance, administration, plannng social events, reading and dare I suggest it, preaching in the same way as a man with similar skills.
Also if people want to focus on women and the Catholic priesthood couldn’t they join in a suitable thread or start their own?
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marietta
Guest
onmyknees:
“Equal but different”. “Colored only/White only.”
It’s not just the few women who would like to be priests that has these posters in a knot. It’s that women are entitled to a world larger than Hamburger Helper and diapers, and it ruffles the Old Tradition. I am guessing that most of the men here who are posting against feminism of any stripe are at least 50 years of age. Their mentality will never change but it will die off in the natural evolution of feminism.
Certainly there are younger men who have been trained and programmed to believe that the little woman has her place. As time goes on, these men will become frustrated and unhappy with their philosophy as the world continues to change around them. But it will always be the fault of those upstart women, the ones who can’t be satisfied unless they have it all.
What does God think of all this? Amused? Disheartened? Or figuring we can work it out amongst ourselves? I believe that, being the penultimate multitasker, God keeps an eye on this issue but has His hands full elsewhere on the globe.
marietta
“Equal but different”. “Colored only/White only.”
It’s not just the few women who would like to be priests that has these posters in a knot. It’s that women are entitled to a world larger than Hamburger Helper and diapers, and it ruffles the Old Tradition. I am guessing that most of the men here who are posting against feminism of any stripe are at least 50 years of age. Their mentality will never change but it will die off in the natural evolution of feminism.
Certainly there are younger men who have been trained and programmed to believe that the little woman has her place. As time goes on, these men will become frustrated and unhappy with their philosophy as the world continues to change around them. But it will always be the fault of those upstart women, the ones who can’t be satisfied unless they have it all.
What does God think of all this? Amused? Disheartened? Or figuring we can work it out amongst ourselves? I believe that, being the penultimate multitasker, God keeps an eye on this issue but has His hands full elsewhere on the globe.
marietta
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Eric_Olsen
Guest
problems is you think popular secular culture is compatible with religious doctrine and it is not.
God does not care what popular secular culture thinks.
Problem is people care more about what secular culture thinks and not what God thinks.
I do not hink God is happy with the second wave of feminims that has swept through. If you consider abortion and the killing of over 345 million unborn babies progress, then you are mistaken.
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fix
Guest
“Equal and exactly the same. Like cogs in a machine interchangeable at will.”
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marietta
Guest
Eric_Olsen:
“Popular secular culture”, as you call it, may not align with Roman Catholicism but that does not make the entire population of the US Godless. And I don’t recall any passage from the Bible where it described God “taking Adam’s rib” to make him a companion in the form of woman, and then taking another rib to fabricate a mop handle to place in her hands.
Your suggestion that “God does not care what popular secular culture thinks” sounds as if you believe that God cares only what his soldiers of the Roman Catholic faith think. Would you deny this?
And where does the figure “345 million unborn babies” come from? Are you certain this is what you meant to write?
Curious,
marietta
“Popular secular culture”, as you call it, may not align with Roman Catholicism but that does not make the entire population of the US Godless. And I don’t recall any passage from the Bible where it described God “taking Adam’s rib” to make him a companion in the form of woman, and then taking another rib to fabricate a mop handle to place in her hands.
Your suggestion that “God does not care what popular secular culture thinks” sounds as if you believe that God cares only what his soldiers of the Roman Catholic faith think. Would you deny this?
And where does the figure “345 million unborn babies” come from? Are you certain this is what you meant to write?
Curious,
marietta
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