What does God make of feminism?

[edwest2]

Speaking as a Christian, the feminism of individuals like Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem and the National Organization for Women was not Biblically based. It was not solution oriented.

It was a call to revolution. And like SpiritMeadow’s posts, it contained an element of truth but it quickly showed its dark side. One does not heal the problems between men and women by demonizing all men, or by calling the society, in general, patriarchal. One does not encourage her “sisters” to overthrow the symbols of their oppression as if all women needed a group of middlemen like NOW to save them from their oppressors - all men.

The fruits of this warped ideology has led to women being convinced that abortion was a right, that divorce was preferred over their slavery to a man.

If anything, feminists like this created fear, mistrust and suspicion instead of healing, reconciliation and forgiveness. That is what Christ came for: to heal, to reconcile, to forgive.

What the feminists of the 1970s did was create division in the family, leading to fear and separation. Now, Christian or non-Christian, a little over half of all marriages end in divorce.

Sad. Very, very sad.

God bless,
Ed

 

[adrift]

What method do you consider abortifacient?

The manufacturers consider the pill they produce as an abortifacient among others. Although there is a dishonest attempt to say that conception does not take place until implantation this however is refuted by pharmacist for life.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Chaldean, you have presented us with an interesting list of sayings from the Old Testament concerning man’s relationship to God and man’s duty to worship God as demanded by God and what will happen to man and women who fail to live up to these demands.

However, I think the list you provided has an inheritant weakness and fails to reflect our Holy Father’s teachings on scripture. The first and most import aspect is what we find in the Gospel of Luke with the story of Christ meeting the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. The point here, as Christ himself taught, was all of the Old Testament points towards Christ, likewise, the whole New Testament points, in its own way back to Christ. The OT and NT cannot be fully understaood (if it ever really can be fully understood) with out a proper understanding of Christ. (Here I would suggest you read our Holy Father’s work, “Daughter Zion”.)

I think its fair to say the Covenant still operates this way: if you are faithful to it, you are blessed; if you are unfaithful, you are cursed.

Here is a NT example:

21 And I gave her a time that she might do penance, and she will not repent of her fornication. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed: and they that commit adultery with her shall be in very great tribulation, except they do penance from their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am he that searcheth the reins and hearts, and I will give to every one of you according to your works.

Interesting how the children,who have nothing to do, are the ones being killed. Its because children are a BLESSING and by God killing them, He has now cursed this woman.

All I’m saying is God wants your faithfulness, and this is not making God to be something smaller than is:

How demeaning to God to claim that he demands anything from us

He demands these things from us because He made is the stronger party of the Covenant.

 

[wildleafblower]

The life and words of Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection, are historic truths.
SpiritMeadow;3891768:

Jesus life is historic, his resurrection is a matter of faith. His words are historic to the degree that they have been faithfully recorded. Don’t confuse what you believe (and incidently what I believe as well) as historically true.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
PRESENTATIONS OF HOLY SEE’S DOCUMENT ON “NEW AGE”

**Distorted vision of Christ **
7. When we see and hear the expression New Age Movement, it is important to remember that originally this referred to the New Age of Aquarius. The document that is being presented to you is a response to the need felt by the Bishops and faithful in various parts of the world. These people have repeatedly asked for help in understanding the New Age Movement from the moment they became aware of the number of people involved in such a movement in different ways and at different levels. They have also asked for a guide to better respond to this already omnipresent phenomenon. The title itself of the document, from the outset, makes it clear that the age of Aquarius will never be able to offer what Christ can offer. The encounter between Jesus and the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (Jn 4,1-42), told in the Gospel of John, is the key text that has guided the reflection during the drafting of the preliminary report on the New Age Movement presented to you today. As one can see, the Document is not intended to be a definitive declaration on the issue. It is a pastoral reflection aimed at helping Bishops, catechists, and as many as are devoted to the different programmes of formation of the Church in order to point out the origins of the New Age Movement, so that one may see in what way it influences the lives of Christians and to work out means and active methods to respond to the numerous and various challenges that the New Age Movement poses to the Christian community in those parts of the world where it is present. This can also be a challenge for those Christians who are tempted by what the New Age Movement is saying about Jesus Christ, in order to recognize that there are many differences between the Cosmic Christ and the Historical Christ. In the last analysis, this Document is another sign of the Church’s attention towards the world. **This is born from the Church’s obligation to remain faithful to the Good News of the life, death and Resurrection of Jesus, who truly offers living water to all those who draw near to Him with an open mind and heart. **

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_press-conf-new-age_en.html
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...erelg_doc_20030203_press-conf-new-age_en.html

The last topic I posted to a guy insinuated that Jesus had to ‘answer to a higher Authority’. I guess the guy forgot that God is THE Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I’m going to have to eventually break the news to that dude unless someone here wants to regarding the TRINITY.

 

[estesbob]

The manufacturers consider the pill they produce as an abortifacient among others. Although there is a dishonest attempt to say that conception does not take place until implantation this however is refuted by pharmacist for life.

The idea that conception does not take place until implantation was unheard of before the late 50s. The pharmaceutical industry, having developed the IUD, started a massive publicity campaign to change the definition of conception. Abortion advocates quickly joined in and many doctors soon followed. It should be noted that the and abortion industry has always been buttressed by poor science. The arguments used to justify abortion in Roe V. Wadeconcerning fetal development have now been proven to be false but the slaughter goes on.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Buddy, you need a reality check. God wants your obedience and love. And if you don’t give it to him, He promises all kinds of wonderful things:

14] "But if you will not hearken to me, and will not do all these commandments,
15] if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,
16] I will do this to you: I will appoint over you sudden terror, consumption, and fever that waste the eyes and cause life to pine away. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it;
17] I will set my face against you, and you shall be smitten before your enemies; those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you.
18] And if in spite of this you will not hearken to me, then I will chastise you again sevenfold for your sins,
19] and I will break the pride of your power, and** I will make** your heavens like iron and your earth like brass;
20] and your strength shall be spent in vain, for your land shall not yield its increase, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit.
21] "Then if you walk contrary to me, and will not hearken to me, I will bring more plagues upon you, sevenfold as many as your sins.
22] And I will let loose the wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number, so that your ways shall become desolate.
23] "And if by this discipline you are not turned to me, but walk contrary to me,
24] then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will smite you sevenfold for your sins.
25] And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant; and if you gather within your cities I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26] When I break your staff of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and shall deliver your bread again by weight; and you shall eat, and not be satisfied.
27] "And if in spite of this you will not hearken to me, but walk contrary to me,
28] then I will walk contrary to you in fury, and chastise you myself sevenfold for your sins.
29] You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.NOTE: IN THE WRITING OF JOSEPHUS, WHEN JERSALEM WAS DESTROYED IN 70 AD, THERE WERE ACCOUNTS OF WOMEN EATING THEIR CHILDEN
30] And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and cast your dead bodies upon the dead bodies of your idols; and my soul will abhor you.
31] And I will lay your cities waste, and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your pleasing odors.
32] And I will devastate the land, so that your enemies who settle in it shall be astonished at it.
33] And I will scatter you among the nations, and I will unsheathe the sword after you; and your land shall be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
34] "Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land shall rest, and enjoy its sabbaths.
35] As long as it lies desolate it shall have rest, the rest which it had not in your sabbaths when you dwelt upon it.
36] And as for those of you that are left, I will send faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; the sound of a driven leaf shall put them to flight, and they shall flee as one flees from the sword, and they shall fall when none pursues.
37] They shall stumble over one another, as if to escape a sword, though none pursues; and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38] And you shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39] And those of you that are left shall pine away in your enemies’ lands because of their iniquity; and also because of the iniquities of their fathers they shall pine away like them.
40] "But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers in their treachery which they committed against me, and also in walking contrary to me,
41] so that I walked contrary to them and brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make amends for their iniquity;
42]*** then I will remember my covenant with Jacob, and I will remem***ber my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land.
43] But the land shall be left by them, and enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them; and they shall make amends for their iniquity, because they spurned my ordinances, and their soul abhorred my statutes.
44] Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not spurn them, neither will I abhor them so as to destroy them utterly and break my covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God;
45] but I will for their sake remember the covenant with their forefathers, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

First of all I am not “buddy”. Ma’am would be more appropriate. And I do not read the bible as literally as you do. I read these as the inspired ways of seeing God written by various peoples in ancient times. They are indeed words of wisdom, and we do well to listen and harken to their sentiments. They are powerful statements of faith and belief. But I don’t confuse man’s words with God’s needs. We are in both cases offering the same worship and love to God, your’s from command, mine from simply seeing that my Creator is worth worshiping. Why do you insist I do it from threatened damnation?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Tome said:
"They are expressions of love because it is God who is telling as, both as our creator and lover, that we need to do the things he commands not because we are his slaves (Christ did say something about not being slaves or servants) rather because he knows in fulfilling his “commants” we are actually bring into perfection our human nature. "

Wow, you really caught me with that. You actually put into words much better than I my own feelings here. God’s unconditionally love in fact calls us to reciprocate out of love, and thus calls us to rise ever higher into our true selves as worthy sons and daughters made in his image. Thanks Tome, you calm thoughtful mind always hits the mark more clearly than I ever can.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

The manufacturers consider the pill they produce as an abortifacient among others. Although there is a dishonest attempt to say that conception does not take place until implantation this however is refuted by pharmacist for life.

I have heard this before and searched mightily for medical evidence in medical journals to substantiate this claim. I have found only the statements that there are NO verified medical studies nor doctors for that matter that will agree with this conclusion.

 

[estesbob]

First of all I am not “buddy”. Ma’am would be more appropriate. And I do not read the bible as literally as you do. I read these as the inspired ways of seeing God written by various peoples in ancient times. They are indeed words of wisdom, and we do well to listen and harken to their sentiments. They are powerful statements of faith and belief. But I don’t confuse man’s words with God’s needs. We are in both cases offering the same worship and love to God, your’s from command, mine from simply seeing that my Creator is worth worshiping. Why do you insist I do it from threatened damnation?

Does this mean I’m not your Buddy either

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Why do you insist I do it from threatened damnation?

Sorry ma’am.

I am not insisting that you, particulary, do it from damnation. But rest assured, God instilled fear into the human so that it would motivate the person towards His will. True, that is the weaker of the two, love would be more beneficial, but some people are not ready for that.

 

[adrift]

I have heard this before and searched mightily for medical evidence in medical journals to substantiate this claim. I have found only the statements that there are NO verified medical studies nor doctors for that matter that will agree with this conclusion.

You don’t believe the inserts? or the pharmacists that I gave a link to.

 

[onmyknees]

In the 1960s, feminist Betty Friedan published The Feminine Mystique. She referred to the family as a “comfortable concentration camp.” Mrs. Friedan was also a Communist.

In the 1970s, Gloria Steinem of the National Organization for Women was at the forefront of telling her feminist “sisters” to “throw off the chains of their oppression” - namely men, any men in their lives. Some women were convinced that they were victims - eternal victims. Miss Steinem created a magazine titled Ms. which was a sort of Playboy for women. It was also a vehicle to disseminate anti-family propaganda.

This radical and divisive feminism created fertile ground for No-Fault Divorce in the 1980s. No kids? $75 and you’re out. Call 1-800-DIVORCE.

So first, a wedge was driven between men and women, creating fear, suspicion and general mistrust. Then a quick and “easy” solution was added – No-Fault Divorce. And the media put on a lot of programming where guys congratulated guys for getting rid of the nagging wife. Young people were severely damaged in the process. What was held as a life-long commitment was seen as too fragile by some, leading to just shacking up without marriage. Which is bad for all concerned, especially the children.

Recently, in a bizarre twist, women are being encouraged to act just like the predatory male chauvenist pigs that NOW told them to avoid. So TV shows like Sex and the City show females acting like predatory males. Very sad and very immoral.

A few words from the Church:

guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/31/gender.catholicism

God bless,
Ed

Great post!
From someone who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s. I’m the little sister of three radical feminists and the only practicing Catholic. One is divorced and remarried to a woman, one is divorced and unhappily remarried to another man, and one is married with no children. They all practice New Age religion. They hate the Church because they hate that men are in charge.

 

[onmyknees]

I have heard this before and searched mightily for medical evidence in medical journals to substantiate this claim. I have found only the statements that there are NO verified medical studies nor doctors for that matter that will agree with this conclusion./QUO
Janet Smith, a Catholic, and an expert on birth control, states that there are two mechanisms at work in the pill . When the first one fails which can happen about every four months, the second mechanism kicks in. This one makes the uterus lining hostile to the already conceived human embryo and so it cannot survive. The baby is aborted.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

Sanger was also a big supporter of abortion in black communities and liked Hitlers ideas of sterilization of people deemed “unworthy”.

Who were the **earliest advocates **of feminism?

I’ll name 2 of them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

**1) Voltairine de Cleyre **-

"she was placed as a teenager into a Catholic convent by necessity, because her father could not support the family. This experience had the effect of pushing her towards** atheism **rather than Christianity. "

“Throughout her life she was plagued by illness and depression, **attempting suicide on at least two occasions **”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltairine_de_Cleyre

2) Margaret Sanger

“On October 16, 1916, Sanger opened a family planning and birth control clinic at 46 Amboy St. in the Brownsville neighborhood of Brooklyn, the first of its kind in the United States”

“Sanger also had offending words for Catholics when she stated that she believed that they were “black moles…invading our buildings of democracy”

"In the early 1960s, Sanger promoted the use of the newly available birth control pill. "

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger

So you see what kind of people started the movement.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

The late man hater Andrea Dworkin was a product of the radical feminism of the 60’s. she always spewed that kind of rhetoric about men. Even saying all sex was rape.

Don’t change the subject. Radical, bra burning, men hating feminism as espoused by NOW has turned women into slaves to immoral living. It drove a wedge between men and women. It encouraged women to embrace victimhood and reject healing. They would always be at war with the enemy - men.

The “worldly initiative” refers to the secular humanist agenda of NOW and Gloria Steinem.

Peace,
Ed

 

[JamesG]

That’s an interesting statement to make.

…and I hazard to say, a broad based stereotype that would probably inspire the wrath of a feminist!

Not all men are of the moral, ethical (and let’s face it, some men are just not capable) fabric to be the “head of the family”.
This is unfortunate, but a rather pervasive reality in today’s society. 69% of post secondary graduates are female in my area- and PS grads have been consistently shown to be higher earners and more stable in terms of the actual physical means to support and “head” a family.
Is it the most traditional way? No. Personally, I won’t marry a man who doesn’t have a square head on his shoulders (and an intellectual level at least equalling mine), so the idea of my being the head of a family is not one that I will stomache. It is something that would immasculate my FH in my opinion. (And as a disclaimer to all- I know there are fabulous men who are SAHD’s and SAH’s, but it’s not a lifestyle for me)

However, there are situations where it is best for the family for the women to NOT bear under their husbands, but rather, lift them up to a greater life that they cannot provide by their own means. This is not to say that they should disrespect their husbands… but if a husband were to object to a wife taking a more active and dominant role in the family when it would clearly better/benefit the situation, then the husband is displaying characteristics of the vice of pride and not looking out for the best interests of the family. That only proves that he is further incapable of being a sensible head of family.

well my wife reads the bible and the follows scripture. Because of that, she knows that I am the head of the family and expects me to act that way. She knows that God made the man the head of the family and she needs me to be that way. When we pray she thanks God for that.

There are many men who haven’t grown up and have never learned how to be good men. Sadly being a “MAN” isn’t something that is explained very well in todays society.

Exactly why a woman would want a man who isn’t a good provider is unknown to me. Perhaps she isn’t making choices that are good for her future, If a woman can’t view her man as the head of the family then she shouldn’t get married to him. If she does, her own pride will destory the marriage. After all, he has the given right to be the head of the family as per scripture. Therefore, a man has a right to object to his wife taking control without just cause.

 

[Amolibri]

Do you think the rise of feminism has bettered the world we live in, or made it worse?

Never mind the 2nd question…how did you come up with the title of this thread???
What gender to you think God is, if any, thomfra???

 

[SpiritMeadow]

SpiritMeadow;3896860:

I have heard this before and searched mightily for medical evidence in medical journals to substantiate this claim. I have found only the statements that there are NO verified medical studies nor doctors for that matter that will agree with this conclusion.[/QUO
Janet Smith, a Catholic, and an expert on birth control, states that there are two mechanisms at work in the pill . When the first one fails which can happen about every four months, the second mechanism kicks in. This one makes the uterus lining hostile to the already conceived human embryo and so it cannot survive. The baby is aborted.

I’m sorry,but I can only rely on what I have read in the midical field, and they find no medical support for this claim. I hear it quite often here as a given I agree.

[/quote]

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

onmyknees;3898608:

I’m sorry,but I can only rely on what I have read in the midical field, and they find no medical support for this claim. I hear it quite often here as a given I agree.

Have you read the insert of the pill yourself?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

well my wife reads the bible and the follows scripture. Because of that, she knows that I am the head of the family and expects me to act that way. She knows that God made the man the head of the family and she needs me to be that way. When we pray she thanks God for that.

There are many men who haven’t grown up and have never learned how to be good men. Sadly being a “MAN” isn’t something that is explained very well in todays society.

Exactly why a woman would want a man who isn’t a good provider is unknown to me. Perhaps she isn’t making choices that are good for her future, If a woman can’t view her man as the head of the family then she shouldn’t get married to him. If she does, her own pride will destory the marriage. After all, he has the given right to be the head of the family as per scripture. Therefore, a man has a right to object to his wife taking control without just cause.

Women have no need for men who are good providers. Women are in this day and age equal providers and most men appreciate it greatly that that burden is shared.

I don’t view my husband as the head of the family and he would be appalled if I did.We are a partnership of equality. We both contribute in the ways that we agree upon. this is not pride, but simple common sense. You may read the bible any way you wish, but it sounds a good deal more protestant than Catholic to me. I’ve never heard such claims from the pulpit on sunday to be sure, and never have been taught such misogynistic values either by the church.