What does indissolubility mean?

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See Canon 1058 “All persons who are not prohibited by law can contract marriage.” Those who are prohibited by law are expressly stated in canons 1095-1103. For everyone else, marriage is a natural right.
It means they can, it doesn’t mean they always will. It’s like saying that not being prohibited by law is a minimum requirement. It means you need “at least” this to contract marriage. It doesn’t mean “this is all you need”.
 
It means they can, it doesn’t mean they always will. It’s like saying that not being prohibited by law is a minimum requirement. It means you need “at least” this to contract marriage. It doesn’t mean “this is all you need”.
You are almost onto it! Canon law sets a series of minimum requirements for marriage, i.e., age, mental capacity, knowledge (see canon 1096 for what is required to be known about marriage, all of which are presumed after puberty). All of these minimum requirements are set very low (in comparison to what our culture thinks). The minimum requirements are low precisely because marriage is a natural right and the Church does not want to exclude people from the possibility of marriage. However, the Church in the US seems to think that marriage is very difficult to acheive and in fact (if you look at tribunal decisions) very few ever enter into a valid marriage. This is what is at the heart of what is so degrading about the situation in the US. The “universal” Church says that marriage requires only some minimum requirements and that marriage is a natural right. The Church in the US says only the elite are truly capable of marriage. In essence the Church in the US is saying that the majority of people are incapable of exercising a natural human right that by canon law is set by a very low bar.
 
I have an observation and a question.

Observation:

Having read through many posts about annulments on these forums I see a pattern. Very few people mention being turned down for an annulment. I could easily get the impression from reading these posts that the annulment process is a paperwork process that is usually (almost always) granted. I get this same impression talking to people…very rarely do I come across someone who has been denied an annulment. Finally, it seems that often I hear immaturity as a the reason why the annulment was granted.

Question:

We hear in Church teaching and the code of canon law that marriage is a basic right for human beings. Moreover, an annulment is a statement that a marriage never occurred. Therefore, if it is true that the majority of annulments are granted on the grounds of immaturity, doesn’t this mean that tribunals are telling people that they are less than human?

Yours in Christ
What you’re referring to as “immaturity” is probably Canon 1095:
Can. 1095 The following are incapable of contracting marriage:
1/ those who lack the sufficient use of reason;
2/ those who suffer from a grave defect of discretion of judgment concerning the essential matrimonial rights and duties mutually to be handed over and accepted;
3/ those who are not able to assume the essential obligations of marriage for causes of a psychic nature.
(vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Z.HTM)

Please note “grave” and “essential” in no. 2 and “not able” and “essential” in no. 3. Also, “those who lack the sufficient use of reason,” implies the sufficient level of reason to be capable of contracting marriage, not people who have insufficient use of reason compared to what could be expected of e.g. someone their age. The fact the marriage isn’t ideal doesn’t mean it’s null. In fact, I used to wonder how many people actually had valid marriages until someone made me aware of what Pope John Paul II said on the subject. Some of it reflects in this EWTN article: ewtn.com/expert/answers/marital_consent.htm. Basically, the shortest summary of it comes down to, “incapacity, not difficulty”.

Using a possibly jaded real-life example, someone being a sloppy person and not good at expressing emotions does not make incapacity with regard to *essential *duties. Mild degrees of disorders shouldn’t qualify, either. Some disorders in a severe grade possibly would.

Also, while strictly speaking a null marriage cannot be dissolved because there’s nothing to dissolve, ecclesiastic judges are obliged to attempt to reconcile the parties first and even see if there’s possibility of persuading parties to convalidate. Then, the very existence of a dedicated “minister of the tribunal” in the form of the defender of the bond (the official whose only function is finding out things which can benefit the validity of marriage) should say a lot. 🙂

And yes, there’s a very high overturn rate for American nullity sentences in the Rota. I’ve heard it’s 90%. This shouldn’t be confused with the number granted. The number granted is influenced by the number of people having no idea what marriage is. However, the number of sentences quashed on appeal does reflect on how easily they were granted.
 
You are almost onto it! Canon law sets a series of minimum requirements for marriage, i.e., age, mental capacity, knowledge (see canon 1096 for what is required to be known about marriage, all of which are presumed after puberty). All of these minimum requirements are set very low (in comparison to what our culture thinks). The minimum requirements are low precisely because marriage is a natural right and the Church does not want to exclude people from the possibility of marriage. However, the Church in the US seems to think that marriage is very difficult to acheive and in fact (if you look at tribunal decisions) very few ever enter into a valid marriage. This is what is at the heart of what is so degrading about the situation in the US. The “universal” Church says that marriage requires only some minimum requirements and that marriage is a natural right. The Church in the US says only the elite are truly capable of marriage. In essence the Church in the US is saying that the majority of people are incapable of exercising a natural human right that by canon law is set by a very low bar.
I see what you’re saying. But out of curiosity, what is the weight of canon law? As far as I know it can be changed, and that it’s more of an administrative part of the faith rather than teachings on faith and morals?
 
I see what you’re saying. But out of curiosity, what is the weight of canon law? As far as I know it can be changed, and that it’s more of an administrative part of the faith rather than teachings on faith and morals?
Yes, canon law can be changed insofar as it is positive human law. However, much of canon law is divine law. But regardless, even if it is positive human law, it is binding until a new law is promulgated.
 
One thing I always wondered is that for a marriage to be valid the couple must be open to life. At the same time, virtually everyone intends to use contraception. Wouldn’t that make all their marriages invalid?
 
One thing I always wondered is that for a marriage to be valid the couple must be open to life. At the same time, virtually everyone intends to use contraception. Wouldn’t that make all their marriages invalid?
Contraceptives are always morally wrong, whereas natural family planning can be morally neutral. However, canon law doesn’t concern itself with whether using contraception or using natural family planning are moral or not. A marriage is invalid if the couple wants to enter into a marriage that does not include children, regardless of whether this is acheived through natural family planning or contraception.

But, as is extremely common in our society, many couples wish to enter into a marriage in which children are delayed. Under certain circumstances this can fall under what John Paul II called “responsible parenthood”, or it can just be selfish people being selfish.

If the intention of the couple is to enter into a marriage that is open to children, but they just don’t want children right now, then the marriage is valid because they are not excluding children altogether.
 
One thing I always wondered is that for a marriage to be valid the couple must be open to life. At the same time, virtually everyone intends to use contraception. Wouldn’t that make all their marriages invalid?
It strikes at the very core, true, but it isn’t invalidating yet. To make marriage invalid, there would have to be intent not to have children at all. That means no children whatsoever and always contraception, or no sex ever at one party’s unileratal decision.
 
It strikes at the very core, true, but it isn’t invalidating yet. To make marriage invalid, there would have to be intent not to have children at all. That means no children whatsoever and always contraception, or no sex ever at one party’s unileratal decision.
Where do couples who aren’t sure if they want children fit in?
 
Where do couples who aren’t sure if they want children fit in?
According to canon law, you don’t have to intend through a positive act of the will to have children. The law simply says that if you intend not to have children through a positive act of the will then the marriage is invalid.

In the absence of a positive decision to exclude children the church assumes that when you marry you do so with the intention of the Church which includes children.
 
Yes, although the exclusion isn’t all there is to it. For example, there can be error determining the will (Canon 1099: “Error concerning the unity or indissolubility or sacramental dignity of marriage does not vitiate matrimonial consent provided that it does not determine the will.” So if it does determine the will, it does vitiate the consent.), which is basically when someone wouldn’t have married if he hadn’t been in error. Then, you have Can. 1095 no. 3, saying that, “those who are not able to assume the essential obligations of marriage for causes of a psychic nature,” are incapable of marrying. If not under exclusion, a person forever undecided or putting off possibly falls under that.
 
Getting back to my original question.

If we live in a Church that engages in dehumanizing practices of telling members of the faithful that marriage is impossible for them to achieve (but go ahead and keep trying to enter into a valid marriage if it makes you happy, we are here to declare it invalid once it fails), and if many Catholics are buying into this dehumanizing logic, then aren’t we getting dangerously close to publicly opposing an infallible teaching of the Catholic Church?
 
The Church says what the Pope does, not what the overturned nullity sentences do.
 
And yes, there’s a very high overturn rate for American nullity sentences in the Rota. I’ve heard it’s 90%. This shouldn’t be confused with the number granted. The number granted is influenced by the number of people having no idea what marriage is. However, the number of sentences quashed on appeal does reflect on how easily they were granted.
Let me put two scenarios to you, they happened in my parish within a couple of years of each other:

The first: When asked the question “Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?” they replied “No” The priest continued with the wedding as though everything were ok.

Was that marriage valid? The priest even told the seminarian who was assisting him that day that he knew he should have refused to continue with the ceremony.

The second: He was a KofC, living common-law and dad of a 3 year old. While this didn’t please the older knights, it was on the back burner until he was elected to some post and the older Knights got vocal about needing to live a proper Catholic life to be a Knight and even more on the executive. Sadly their chaplain, our pastor, didn’t support them, he thought they were being unreasonable.

Not long after that fuss ensued the guy was planning his wedding. A very low key wedding, a wedding where they seemed to care about nothing that was going to happen. Less than a year after the vows were spoken she’d left him and their daughter for a married man thirty years her senior.

Was there free consent on his part at the time of this marriage? Or did he feel pressured to marry to please the KofC? He said ‘no’ that he’d wanted to get married before but who knows?

Was there free consent on her part or did she go along with this marriage to please him when it’s obviously not what she wanted for herself?
 
Let me put two scenarios to you, they happened in my parish within a couple of years of each other:

The first: When asked the question “Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?” they replied “No” The priest continued with the wedding as though everything were ok.

Was that marriage valid? The priest even told the seminarian who was assisting him that day that he knew he should have refused to continue with the ceremony.
Yes, canon 1066: “before a marriage is celebrated, it must be evident that nothing stands in the way of its valid and licit celebration”. The exclusion was as clear as it could be and heh, in fact, the vows weren’t even exchanged. Possibly defect of form, but don’t quote me.
The second: He was a KofC, living common-law and dad of a 3 year old. While this didn’t please the older knights, it was on the back burner until he was elected to some post and the older Knights got vocal about needing to live a proper Catholic life to be a Knight and even more on the executive. Sadly their chaplain, our pastor, didn’t support them, he thought they were being unreasonable.
The chaplain was wrong if he meant the concubinage was no big deal. On the other hand, people fussing is not a good reason for marriage.
Not long after that fuss ensued the guy was planning his wedding. A very low key wedding, a wedding where they seemed to care about nothing that was going to happen. Less than a year after the vows were spoken she’d left him and their daughter for a married man thirty years her senior.

Was there free consent on his part at the time of this marriage? Or did he feel pressured to marry to please the KofC? He said ‘no’ that he’d wanted to get married before but who knows?
There was pressure but the pressure was hardly a threat. I would say both had very irresponsible attitudes. She sounds like a canon 1095 no. 3 case (unable to assume the essential duties of marriage for reasons of psychic nature).
Was there free consent on her part or did she go along with this marriage to please him when it’s obviously not what she wanted for herself?
Don’t know that one. My hypothesis is that sometimes intents aren’t very clearly formed and people act brainlessly.
 
Getting back to my original question.

If we live in a Church that engages in dehumanizing practices of telling members of the faithful that marriage is impossible for them to achieve (but go ahead and keep trying to enter into a valid marriage if it makes you happy, we are here to declare it invalid once it fails), and if many Catholics are buying into this dehumanizing logic, then aren’t we getting dangerously close to publicly opposing an infallible teaching of the Catholic Church?
Hi xpistou,

You are correct that the use of c. 1095 can be seen as an insult to a person’s humanity. Obviously, from Adam and Eve onwards, man and woman are made for each other and marriage is our natural state and people do have a right to marry (the “ius connubii,” as they say). So, telling a person that he is incapable of marrying, either because of a lack of the use of reason or a lack of discretion of judgment or an incapacity to assume the rights and obligations of marriage (1095, 1-3) is like telling them they are not able to do what people can, by nature, do.

People who work in certain tribunals, for whatever reason, tend to make any case fit into c. 1095…not realizing what it means, perhaps.

That being said, I am not sure I follow your conclusion that this is getting close to opposing an infallible teaching of the Church…??

Also, a declaration of nullity has nothing to do with indissolubility or dissolving anything. So, I am not sure how the title of this thread relates…

But, I agree with the heart of your concerns.

Dan
 
Hi xpistou,

You are correct that the use of c. 1095 can be seen as an insult to a person’s humanity. Obviously, from Adam and Eve onwards, man and woman are made for each other and marriage is our natural state and people do have a right to marry (the “ius connubii,” as they say). So, telling a person that he is incapable of marrying, either because of a lack of the use of reason or a lack of discretion of judgment or an incapacity to assume the rights and obligations of marriage (1095, 1-3) is like telling them they are not able to do what people can, by nature, do.
Only the incorrect use. The correct use is no more dehumanising than diagonosis by a doctor or insanity defence in criminal trial or appointment of a custodian to enter into contracts on behalf of an insane person. Plus, marriage contains an exchange of duties and rights (it’s more than that, but it does contain it). If someone is unable to perform those duties, that person is unable to assume them. Simple as that.

There are people who are incapable of marrying the same as there are people incapable of committing the crime or entering into a contract. Not pretending does not diminish the dignity of a sick person. Pretending does. To pretend that an insane person can give valid consent to marriage, that would be dehumanising - to that person and to the other spouse. It would be grossly dehumanising to expect someone to stay “married” to a mentally afflicted person who cannot stay faithful, cannot stay with one person forever, cannot get his mind to have children or cannot share a “bed and table” without turning someone’s life into hell.

I can give you more examples than just marriage: if someone attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself even if that person thinks you’re a Martian or believes you’re a threat based on a tick in your eye. In fact, you can defend yourself from a person who’s being forced to attack you. There’s nothing dehumanising in not lying down and allowing yourself to be shot, beaten or whatever. If you have an insane partner in a company, you can get him precluded from decision-making and you don’t dehumanise him by preventing him from conducting business like a free person. Or voting, for example. The state does not dehumanise unfit parents by taking children away from them for those children’s good. Not in principle - in all these cases. It can only be dehumanising when it’s used improperly, that is, someone is precluded from those rights on the basis of a slight disorder or a shortcoming that is not even a disorder. Contrary, in the normal situation, it would be dehumanising to force people to submit to an investigation conducted by an officer with paranoid schizophrenia, to suffer the effects of business, political or parental decisions made by a clinically delusional decision-maker, to hold them to witness given by a compulsive liar, to hire a diagnosed kleptomaniac as a shopkeeper etc. Same way, you can’t tell people to marry compulsive cheaters, runaway brides, eternal 12 year olds, people with a mental block against having children and all sorts of people who are not as repulsive as wife-beaters, violent despots, raging substance users (of whom some may actually be genuinely sick and not at personal fault).

Obviously, there can be abuse. For example, someone could bring a couple of recent photos of me having a cup in a pub or home and try saying that because I got drunk a couple of times when I was young, once or twice in later life etc., then there is a pattern and I’m an alcoholic and a supposed addiction prevents me from being able to marry, boom, he believes my marriage was null. Or someone could gather proofs that my arguments are long, I always want to say all that’s on my mind, I wash hands all the time and scoff at people for being inconsistent, and therefore I must be an OCD case. Or say, someone could maliciously misrepresent my utterly charming personality as an NPD case. Naturally, I would probably look like I wanted to inflict a slight injury upon him for that, but that wouldn’t make me a raging bully, either. Thankfully, we have judges in tribunals, not just plaintiffs, we have doctors as expert witnesses (and not just parties talking) and we have appellate tribunals and the Roman Rota in case things go awry.

But I repeat, some people are incapable of marriage and it is neither wrong nor dehumanising to recognise and react to that fact. Not any more than defending oneself against an attack by an insane person, denouncing a compulsive liar at a witness stand, not hiring a diagnosed kleptomaniac as a shopkeeper etc.
 
That being said, I am not sure I follow your conclusion that this is getting close to opposing an infallible teaching of the Church…??
Dan,

Hypothetically, the Church in America, that is to say, a majority of bishops backed by a majority of the clergy and laity, could conceivably come out with an official statement rejecting the dogma of the indissolubility of a sacramental marriage. What would the practical, daily consequences be if the Church in America were to subscribe to such a heresy? For starters no one would need an annulment. That is to say, (1) no one would be restricted from entering into a subsequent marriage and (2) no one would have to prove the invalidity of the previous marriage. Secondly, (3) pastors would not discourage divorce if the parties were unhappy in their marriage. I’m sure we could imagine many more practical effects which would flow from such a theoretical stance.

Now let’s leave the hypothetical, and allow me to ask some questions which no one probably has an answer to: (1) How many tribunals in America give negative decisions? (2) How many tribunals in America give affirmative decisions based on little or no proof? (3) How many pastors discourage divorce and tell parties that this is their one and only shot at marriage?

My suspicion is that the Church in America is living as if indissolubility were not a reality. There is a disconnect between our theoretical assent and our practical actions. And given that the maxim says “actions speak louder than words” what are our actions saying about our belief in the indissolubility of marriage?
 
(1) How many tribunals in America give negative decisions?

Unless the parties revealed it, nobody has any way of knowing.

(2) How many tribunals in America give affirmative decisions based on little or no proof? (3) How many pastors discourage divorce and tell parties that this is their one and only shot at marriage?
Better question: How many consult their pastors about that decision?
 
No it isn’t degrading to tell someone that at the time they entered into marriage they were lacking proper consent, any more than it’s degrading to tell someone that without the requisite amount of study and practical training, in other words a proper understanding of what they are doing, they are incapable of being received into the Church via baptism or confirmation, or incapable of being ordained a priest.

Marriage is very serious, complicated business, and even Catholics who marry in Church DO enter into it, for example, with no intention whatsoever of remaining faithful for life to their partner. To say that they didn’t enter into it in exactly the right frame of mind is about being honest about what you were thinking at the time, and even many adults don’t have the intestinal fortitude to enter marriage in the right frame of mind. I don’t see it as degrading to say so.
 
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