"What does islam and catholicism have in common?"

[Lisa44]

What do they have in common?

I don’t think they have anything in common.
If I started a cult tomorrow and said bla, bla, bla, Mary is Jesus’s mother, bla bla bla, Jesus is not the son of God. bla bla bla “do not take Christians and Jews as your friends”…bla bla bla, there is one God.

Could I then compare myself to the Catholic faith?

It makes no sense, its preposterous. PREPOSTEROUS!

Everything is a mixture of truth and lies: 1% truth, 99% lies, does that then a make it a similitude of the truth? NO, NO, NO.

The truth is the truth and its not 50% truth and 50% lies. Thats not the truth is it?

Why do we even engage with these Islamic followers? We have the truth, they have a pile of garbage. End of story.

Genesis -
I don’t know anything about Pope Gregory VII but I have to say I disagree with his comments. The very idea that one should not do to others what they don’t want done to themselves (from Judaism) is no where found in Islam! In fact, Islam does not tolerate infidels. Just because they worship a God who they said made the universe, in no way makes them similar to Jews or Christians. They don’t even read the bible and believe it to be false. Pope Gregory VII is obviously trying to placate Al-Nasir. He is trying to avoid bloodshed by informing him of a belief (love thy neighbour) that is no where found in Islam.

This is an aside but there was recent a debate somewhere in the middle east between Islamic moderates and hard-liners over whether or not Christians and Jews were “HUMAN BEINGS” and should have “human rights.” The moderates saying yes they were human beings and the extremists saying no they were not.

Islam is not what we want it to be but what it is. I so wish people would wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[RobGentner]

What do they have in common?

I don’t think they have anything in common.
If I started a cult tomorrow and said bla, bla, bla, Mary is Jesus’s mother, bla bla bla, Jesus is not the son of God. bla bla bla “do not take Christians and Jews as your friends”…bla bla bla, there is one God.

Could I then compare myself to the Catholic faith?

It makes no sense, its preposterous. PREPOSTEROUS!

Everything is a mixture of truth and lies: 1% truth, 99% lies, does that then a make it a similitude of the truth? NO, NO, NO.

The truth is the truth and its not 50% truth and 50% lies. Thats not the truth is it?

Why do we even engage with these Islamic followers? We have the truth, they have a pile of garbage. End of story.

Genesis -
I don’t know anything about Pope Gregory VII but I have to say I disagree with his comments. The very idea that one should not do to others what they don’t want done to themselves (from Judaism) is no where found in Islam! In fact, Islam does not tolerate infidels. Just because they worship a God who they said made the universe, in no way makes them similar to Jews or Christians. They don’t even read the bible and believe it to be false. Pope Gregory VII is obviously trying to placate Al-Nasir. He is trying to avoid bloodshed by informing him of a belief (love thy neighbour) that is no where found in Islam.

This is an aside but there was recent a debate somewhere in the middle east between Islamic moderates and hard-liners over whether or not Christians and Jews were “HUMAN BEINGS” and should have “human rights.” The moderates saying yes they were human beings and the extremists saying no they were not.

Islam is not what we want it to be but what it is. I so wish people would wake up and smell the coffee.

**Lisa, I agree with you. However that isn’t a good thing. I get accused of not being “Cghistian enough” because I defend our Catholic Faith. :knight2: When they have nothing else to complain about they pick on my bold/blue fonts! :extrahappy: : Welcome to the Fight! **

 

[RobGentner]

Hello Rob,
The quesion was what do we have have in common?
You say, “Who Cares?”

Personally I believe Mohmmad took the idea which had untied Jews and Christians… re-invented the Bible as the Koran, to attempt to unite the The Arabic tribes. He was merchant, (so I don’t believe, he was illiterate, as they say he was), but it must of been a business mans’ nightmare dealing with all those god’s. Different tribes had a different god for each day of the week, for each week, each month etc…etc… Mohammad had to know about the Christian and Hebrew peoples and what binded them together as a nation, in trading with them. He just packaged it ifferently, that’s what I came to think.
.
But, one other thing, I think Isalm is anti Abortion in their Beliefs Heretics or not: That would be a common belief and cause in Washington; And a welcome ally against the butchering of innocent children, in the one place they ought to be the safest in… Their Mother’s womb.

**John, I agree with your observations. The old saying about My enemy’s enemy being my friend would apply in the case of abortion… I am working the 40 days and 40 nights, 24 hours a day peaceful, prayer demonstration in front of our local Planned Parenthood office! (What a joke for a name of the Butcher Shop Headquarters!) We are citizens of all faiths praying for the end of abortion. I also am organizing a group of parish members to form a three mile chain along a major street here for one hour! We have to walk the walk besides talking the talk. God Bless

Rob**

 

[John_oxios]

What do they have in common?

Why do we even engage with these Islamic followers? We have the truth, they have a pile of garbage. End of story.

Hello Lisa 44,
Without dialogue, how do we open them up to the Truth about Christ? They acknowledge Christ, but do not know the Truth of Him.

Our Catechism:

Who belongs to the Catholic Church? (Emphasis Mine)

836 “**All men **are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation.”

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.” The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because **all share a common destiny, namely God. **His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 **The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. ** Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 ** To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. **The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.

The Apostle Paul, never went into a community and said,“You are all wrong!” He captivated their thoughts by introducing Jesus Christ, The Son of God, by teaching them about Him… most of the time he took what they already had… and turned it toward Christ.
Take for instance The Unknown god of

Act 17:21 Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new.
Act 17:22 So Paul, standing in the middle of the Are-op’agus, said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious.
Act 17:23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription,** ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown**, this I proclaim to you.

Sticking our noses in the air, because we think we are better, because of our Religion… is not Christ-like at all.
Remember it was the religious elite whom Crucified Christ.

Christ commands us to Love our enemies, this is by no means easy, it takes a lot of patience and practice.
Faith comes by hearing… as catholics we are called to be living exampes of our faith in Jesus, and are caslled to show and tell the World why we believe.
How can you communiate that without communication?
God bless
John O

 

[RobGentner]

Lisa 44 Johnny didn’t “fight fair”. Rarher than give you his personal opinion, he quoted from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (CCC) You can’t argue with that! **
Sticking our noses in the air, because we think we are better, because of our Religion… is not Christ-like at all. Remember it was the religious elite whom Crucified Christ. I think that was the “Plan” so that we would realize that following the laws with out love for our fellow beings wasn’t God’s way!** Christ commands us to Love our enemies, this is by no means easy, it takes a lot of patience and practice.
Faith comes by hearing… as catholics we are called to be living exampes of our faith in Jesus, and are called to show and tell the World why we believe. They will know we are Catholic by our love!..

** How can you communiate that without communication?**

:extrahappy: **
Johnny did you actually mean to say that, that way?? **:extrahappy:

God bless
John O

 

[benedicter]

What do you say to a Catholic that says they are a Muslim as well. Reading Quran and praying as a Muslim (their words not mine) and going to Mass and the Eucharist.

When I ascertained clearly this was the case and they confirmed it - I suggested that going to the Eucharist was blasphemous…

was that a bad thing to say? This person is not innocent in this just seeing things in a ‘faithfully dissident’ manner. But enough’s enough, when do you speak up for the sacredness of the Eucharist?

 

[John_oxios]

RobGentner:

Lisa 44 Johnny didn’t “fight fair”. Rather than give you his personal opinion, he quoted from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (CCC) You can’t argue with that!

Hello RobG and Lisa44,
Sorry people, not only is it a teaching in the CC,
that was my pesonal opinion and experience.

Jehovah Witnesse'  are always welcomed in my home after a knock on the door. One time I had about eight this guy kept comming back with more!!

I sit in Borders books with my big 2’ Benedictine Cross, reading all kinds of Biblical Lit. & strike up discussions with every and anyone who lend an ear.

I lived it and still try to.
it was and still is a result of…
a short stay in Prision [28 months total], Religious discussions were always pressing. I went in as a Protestant came out Catholic.

The Deacon (J. Levison), up there [an avid Catholic Apolgetist] seeing all the biblical and religious discussions going on said to me, (as I was walking out the gate)
You’re gonna miss this, you’ve been in the trenches, and you’re not going to find them out here."

He’s right, the total 18hr day searching Scripture and dialoguing with Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses, Protestants Of all kinds, even guys who called themselves: Hebrew Israelites (?) who ran around with bald heads trying to act kosher? etc… ect… We spent hours days trying to trip up each other to 'win them to the faith.
After my return to Catholicism giys would come up and ask many biblical questions. My light burned til four or five in the morning, Best time to read in the silence, The whole prison knew me as the 'Mad Monk."
Upon my exit, one man of Protestant faith wrote me a card,
Mad Monk,
Every saint has a past
Every sinner a future.
he then wrote, “sSome debts can never be repaid”
Thank you God bless,
Manny

Six yrs later I still have that Card, I still weep when I read, a wonder? All I did was share the knowledge, passion and desire the Holy Spirit has given me with Manny. I know it was not of me.

My Protestant counterpart had a Assoccites degree in theology he received in prison, he was also a Seventh dayu adventist convert from Islam.

The discussions we had were tremondous… I wouldn’t know as much about others, and come to understand and respect their beliefs as people if I had not done the time.

God works in strange ways…

I quote the CCC becuse I believe in the Catholic Church, I’m all in! What I may not understand… I ask for guidance and wisdom to understand.

Rob, Christ commands us to Love our enemies, this is by no means easy, it takes a lot of patience and practice.

Faith comes by hearing… as catholics we are called to be living exampes of our faith in Jesus, and are called to show and tell the World why we believe. They will know we are Catholic by our love!..

John How can you communicate that without communication?

Johnny did you actually mean to say that, that way??

except for the typo (now repaired)
well yea!!! I hope you had a good laugh!!

One thing that drives me really bonkers is Catholic arguing against catholic teachings. It’ one of the reasons I signed on a year ago, and hadn’t postd til ‘Chief Brody’ dragged me back in from another forum site.
I don’t mind attempting to teach/ explain/ help to understand what the Catholic Church teaches… but I oughtn’ have to argue about it with another Catholic.

I guess RobG that the next thing you’re gonna say is, Don’t tell anyone you were in Prison? Wass the difference?

God bless,
Johnnie o

 

[RobGentner]

Hello RobG and Lisa44,
Sorry people, not only is it a teaching in the CC,
that was my pesonal opinion and experience.

**Johnny I believe you! I was saving you an argument! LOL. If it is in the CCC we should believe it! That was my point! **
Jehovah Witnesse’ are always welcomed in my home after a knock on the door. One time I had about eight this guy kept comming back with more!! **One definition of Hell I once heard was spending eternity in heaven with a bunch of JWs **

except for the typo (now repaired) well yea!!! I hope you had a good laugh!!

It was like saying “how can you talk without talking” It answered itself! That was what made me laugh!

One thing that drives me really bonkers is Catholic arguing against catholic teachings. It’ one of the reasons I signed on a year ago, and hadn’t postd til ‘Chief Brody’ dragged me back in from another forum site. **For me is when a Catholic will defend a protestant that says things that even they don’t believe to start an argument. **
I don’t mind attempting to teach/ explain/ help to understand what the Catholic Church teaches… but I oughtn’ have to argue about it with another Catholic.**Amen, That is why we have the CCC. **

I guess RobG that the next thing you’re gonna say is, Don’t tell anyone you were in Prison? What’s the difference?

**Actually, Being a ex- soldier, I share a lot with ex-prisoners. You understand what I mean others may not. No shame in being an “ex-anything” except Catholic is my way of thinking! **

God bless, Johnnie o Back at you my friend! Rob

 

[John_oxios]

What do you say to a Catholic that says they are a Muslim as well. Reading Quran and praying as a Muslim (their words not mine) and going to Mass and the Eucharist.

When I ascertained clearly this was the case and they confirmed it - I suggested that going to the Eucharist was blasphemous…

was that a bad thing to say? This person is not innocent in this just seeing things in a ‘faithfully dissident’ manner. But enough’s enough, when do you speak up for the sacredness of the Eucharist?

hello benedicter,
Praying five times a day, doesn’t make you a Muslim, Daniel did as well as many pious jews, in fact even today the Church prays the Office?Hours four or five times a day.
Praying is good.

**Facing Mecca ** ? and praying to a rock? A whole nother story!!
That Rock they bow to was/ is the very Rock Mohammad supposedly some say leveitated (Hovered over) or was taken up to heaven from? (The witnesses were no longer alive to verify 100 yrs after the account was written).
It also said to be the Rock Abraham was sacrificing Isaac on.

Reading the Koran? Not a sin, reading it as the word of God? Well? That’s an oxymoran.
To The Muslim, Christ is a man who was a great Prophet.
So receiving the Eucharist, attending Adoration, even going to the Mass itself are reduced to empty religious rites, without meaning or purpose!

Maybe he’s trying to date a Muslim or Catholic gal, or both??
Wants his cake and eat it too?

Whom does he serve? God the Father? Or Allah ‘Master’ creator who treats people like lowly creatures?
Although they call ‘Allah’ creator, he was the one god, picked by Mohammad- that all ought to Worship out of the many gods in kasbah.

You can’t have both?
then again they cit could be some kind of personal ‘Syncretism’
The attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion].

Which the Church is warns against anyway.

You can pray as a Jew at the Wall? You can flop on the ground like a fish and call that Worship? Some preachers use music to heighten the congregation into a frenzy but you can’t Worship two completely different ideas of God in faith and be serious about it!
Call that guy an ambulance, or take him to a priest! He is seriously Confused or deluded?
I betcha he hasn’t told the Muslims, he also is going to Catholic services!
One day he’s an infidel? The next day a slave to Islam?
How can he do it?
God bless, and Good night
Johnnie o

 

[RobGentner]

What do you say to a Catholic that says they are a Muslim as well. Reading Quran and praying as a Muslim (their words not mine) and going to Mass and the Eucharist.
When I ascertained clearly this was the case and they confirmed it - I suggested that going to the Eucharist was blasphemous… was that a bad thing to say?**Why would it be? “Blasphemy” may be used by extension to describe any display of gross irreverence towards any person or thing deemed worthy of exalted esteem. “if it walks like a duck…” ** This person is not innocent in this just seeing things in a ‘faithfully dissident’ manner. But enough’s enough, when do you speak up for the sacredness of the Eucharist?**EVERY TIME! **

**
What do you say? A couple of things as a Catholic:**

1. You can’t serve two Gods, nor practice two religions.
2. That going to communion was a mortal sin: tCCC 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

3: That you will not pray for them:
1 John 5:16-17 - If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

1. That you are going to tell your Parish Priest and do it!

Good luck!

 

[benedicter]

Thanks guys, great support.

 

[John_oxios]

RobGentner:

RobG,
Johnny I believe you! I was saving you an argument! LOL. If it is in the CCC we should believe it! That was my point!

Hello RobG,
Otay!

One definition of Hell I once heard was spending eternity in heaven with a bunch of JWs

That person was misinformed! According to J.W. interpretation, thre will only be room for 144,000 Jehovah witnesses in Heaven,
who wil rule the rest lft bhind on he Earth, in the new Paradise.

I’d rather be in heaven with the 144,000 ‘rulng Class’ than on Earth being ruled by the 144,000. They get that numb om Revlations by the way, totlly missing the point in Scripture.

RobG, "It was like saying “how can you talk without talking” It answered itself! That was what made me laugh!

I really din’t notice how I wrote that, my typing cannot keep up
with my thought process.

RobG. "Actually, Being a ex- soldier, I share a lot with ex-prisoners. You understand what I mean others may not. No shame in being an “ex-anything” except Catholic is my way of thinking!

Prison being para-military rule…yes you may have an inkling.

God bless, Johnnie o Back at you my friend! Rob

And too you,
Johnnie o

 

[RobGentner]

That person was misinformed! According to J.W. interpretation, thre will only be room for 144,000 Jehovah witnesses in Heaven,
who wil rule the rest lft bhind on he Earth, in the new Paradise.

I’d rather be in heaven with the 144,000 ‘rulng Class’ than on Earth being ruled by the 144,000. They get that number out of Revlations by the way, totality missing the point in Scripture.

**
I say “I heard that your membership is over 144,000. If I join one of you has to go to hell. Still want me” ???

later

Rob**

 

[John_oxios]

**
I say “I heard that your membership is over 144,000. If I join one of you has to go to hell. Still want me” ???

later

Rob**

Hey Rob,

       I guess they're not wiling?  :eek:  That's why they stopped knocking @your door!!    :dts:  Sacrifice of self for another?  
Exit stage left...:wave:

Christ said, there’s room for all of God’s Children. The Father’s House has many rooms.

About the constant typos but I have been losing posts so I submit them wih the idea that I’ll have time to edit…and then ‘poof’ timed out? I am not use o the constrictions here.

About this:

John
Prison being para-military rule…yes you may have an inkling.

Given his a lil more thought, One thing when the door slams, you know you’e going to be there awhile! I oped to my knees because I knew it as Just me and Him, nothing in between.
In the military, I guess (four brothers, 1 sister, all military three retired, Two airforce, three Navy1 a ten yr vet) you also know you’re goin to b there awhile, and in action yo’re also calling on God, to se you get home healthy.

God Bless,
Johnnie O

 

[RobGentner]

**

Given this a lil more thought, One thing when the door slams, you know you’e going to be there awhile! I oped to my knees because I knew it as Just me and Him, nothing in between.
In the military, I guess (four brothers, 1 sister, all military three retired, Two airforce, three Navy1 a ten yr vet) you also know you’re goin to b there awhile, and in action yo’re also calling on God, to se you get home healthy.

**Another is that you have to do as you are told. You become selfless! Try and lose your identity. You also have to fit in so as not to be singled out for abuse. You have to do your time without complaining all the time. Just comply!
I do outreach on the streets. Many Vietnam vets (Like me) and ex cons there. Can’t tell much difference. They all want to be left alone. They will acept money, food, cigarettes, but not
'friendship". Not until they get to know you, I didn’t say “trust” you, That takes tooo much time!

Different that protestants, I don’t hand out bibles, I hand out food, treats and cigarettes. They can find God in those things also. Plus they never run away when they see ME coming!

---

God Bless,
Johnnie O

 

[John_oxios]

RobGenter
Different that protestants, I don’t hand out bibles, I hand out food, treats and cigarettes. They can find God in those things also. Plus they never run away when they see ME coming

,
Hey RobG,

    "And most of all Charity"  We are instruments of HIs Love.

RSV
Act 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a disciple named Tabitha, which means Dorcas. She was full of good works and acts of charity.

KJV
1Cr 13:2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, **so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing **

1Cr 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.

2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

• Human contact !* A handshake, a conversation, even just to sit and listen; 'being there." A little love goes a lot farther than beating up someone with the Gospels, calling them to repent.
  Like you said Trust comes in time, those who have a rift with God, don’t give it easily.

Time is the measure of Change, and its always in His time.

God knows how important contact is to our His Children,
Through Christ in the Eucharist, He gives us what we need, spiritual food and physical contact.
That’s what being Human and Christian is all about.

I don’t particularly like using these little smiley things, However,
I get a kick out of this lil guy with the axios, incense and the Liturgy.
Do you know how i can use this outside this forum?

God bless,
Johnnie o

 

[RobGentner]

,
…
I don’t particularly like using these little smiley things, However,
I get a kick out of this lil guy with the axios, incense and the Liturgy.
Do you know how i can use this outside this forum?
**
Highlight,copy paste~!

You were preaching to the choir Johnnie! :grouphug: :grouphug: I hope our brethern read and understand. :dancing:
God bless,

**

:extrahappy: I don’t like using the smileys neither !! :extrahappy:

Rob ~

 

[Lisa44]

Hello Lisa 44,
Without dialogue, how do we open them up to the Truth about Christ? They acknowledge Christ, but do not know the Truth of Him.

Our Catechism:

Who belongs to the Catholic Church? (Emphasis Mine)…

Sticking our noses in the air, because we think we are better, because of our Religion… is not Christ-like at all.
Remember it was the religious elite whom Crucified Christ.

Christ commands us to Love our enemies, this is by no means easy, it takes a lot of patience and practice.
Faith comes by hearing… as catholics we are called to be living exampes of our faith in Jesus, and are caslled to show and tell the World why we believe.
How can you communiate that without communication?
God bless
John O

I had not read that part of the Catachism so thank you!

It’s my opinion that the Church is now, and has been for some time, in a dangerous position when it comes to Islam. Look what happened when Pope Benedict made those comments about Islam.

Indeed, anyone who speaks out against Muhammad risks violence against them.

For that reason, the Church has to be delicate. They are walking on egg shells.

However, I as an individual, believe I am free to express myself.

Allah does not equal the Trinity. To equate Allah, the god of muhammad, with Jesus Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit is nonsense.

All Catholics know that salvation comes through Jesus Christ except in cases where a person has never heard of the gospel and is therefore judged on their actions (846,847).

When I said why bother, I was venting my frustration over my experience of dialoging with Muslims in the past.

But yes, by all means, try and talk to them. My experience is that they know about Jesus yet they refuse to believe in the gospels calling them false. That is their choice and its not an ignorant one at all. They chose to see Jesus as an ordinary prophet and the Church as a perpetrator of lies.

With people like that, who have read the bible and yet still think its a lie, what can you say? We can urge them not to reject it. But, its their choice isn’t it. And we all know what happens to people who know Christ and reject him.

This doesn not include the millions of Muslims in countries where there are no bibles and who do not know Christ. However, all of the Muslims I have dialogued with have been Americans who rejected Christianity in exchange for Islam.

 

[RobGentner]

… My experience is that they know about Jesus yet they refuse to believe in the gospels calling them false. That is their choice and its not an ignorant one at all.

Actually, in most cases, it is Lisa!

They chose to see Jesus as an ordinary prophet **and the Church as a perpetrator of lies. **

** Like our Protestant brethren? They read “their bible”, The Qur’an: It says [5.51] “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” Mary gave birth to Jesus under a palm tree that would rain down dates for her to eat, if she shook it. Jesus was a talking baby prophet at birth and he didn’t die on the cross. Those that believe he was the son of God will go to hell! As I said they know of Jesus, they sure don’t know Him as Savior or God.**

With people like that, who have read the bible and yet still think its a lie, what can you say?

**Lisa, unless they are converts. They haven’t read “our” bible, like most of us haven’t read theirs. They know of us through their version of the book from God, the Qur’an! **

We can urge them not to reject it. But, its their choice isn’t it. And we all know what happens to people who know Christ and reject him.

They know of Him as a historical figure, they do not know Him as the Savior! There is still hope for their salvation even as Muslims through the graces of the RCC.

This doesn’t include the millions of Muslims in countries where there are no bibles and who do not know Christ. However, all of the Muslims I have dialogued with have been Americans who rejected Christianity in exchange for Islam.

**There are many differences between Christianity and Islam, some are cultural which converts don’t understand. There are some significant differences between Islam and Christianity. These are the two largest religions in the world, lets examine just a little about how they differ. (Of course, there are wild variations within each religion; I am making very broad generalizations here.) As Catholics we have many things in common with Muslims that we don’t have with other Christians. But we have most ofl the important things, necesary for salvation, in common with most Christians.
Most Christians believe in the Trinity; Muslims believe God is indivisible.
Most Christians believe that as a member of the Trinity, Jesus is the Son of God. Muslims believe that Jesus was conceived by an act of God and though not the Son of God, is like Muhammad, a highly respected Prophet.
All Christians believe Adam is guilty of disobeying God and that we all bear this Original Sin when we are born. We can be saved from this, and other sins, through accepting Jesus Christ’s atonement. Muslims believe Adam was faultless (some refer to him as a Prophet).
All Christians believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross to atone for man’s sins. Muslims believe Jesus did not die on the cross and consequently there is no atonement. Muslims believe that each person is born sin-less and must take responsibility for maintaining this state throughout life.
Most Christians believe that when we die, we are immediately judged and sent to Heaven or Hell (or Purgatory in the Catholic faith, where Christian souls can do penance to prepare for Heaven and non-Christians can languish until the final Judgment Day). Muslims believe in barzakh, an interim afterlife similar to Purgatory, where spirits wait Judgment Day.

Many Bible stories are repeated in the Qur’an but some of the details differ. Not all of these differences can be explained by translation errors.

Secular law and morality are separate in Christian countries and they mostly have secular governments. Islam considers law and morality as synonymous; the law is based on their moral code and politics are governed by the religion in their countries.

Christians have a more relaxed view about what foods may be eaten. Muslims, being conscious that God created man, consider it wrong to defile such a creation with certain food and drink. Muslims may not, for example, eat pork or drink alcohol.
It is mandatory for Muslims to face Mecca and recite a prescribed liturgy (salat) at five specific times every day. Christians have no such obligation.
Increasingly, many Christian denominations are tolerating homosexuality. This is still largely forbidden in Islam.
Christian men and women worship together; Muslims segregate. Polygamy is forbidden in the Christian Church; Most Muslim men may have more than one wife.
Christian males and females may wear silk gold, but in Islam only females are permitted to wear silk and gold. **