What does it mean in Trent when it says

[Erick_Ybarra]

“Justification, which is not only a remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes friends, that he may be an heir according to the hope of eternal life”

When it says “becomes just” does this mean the immediate good works that we do at the moment of conversion or does this refer to another kind of becoming just?

ALSO

“the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us…”

What does it mean when it says “receiving justice within us”?

 

[mardukm]

"Justification, which is not only a remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes friends, that he may be an heir according to the hope of eternal life"

When it says “becomes just” does this mean the immediate good works that we do at the moment of conversion or does this refer to another kind of becoming just?

ALSO

"the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us…"

What does it mean when it says “receiving justice within us”?

To become just is to have sanctifying Grace. The Justice of God is the possession of sanctifying Grace.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[JRKH]

"Justification, which is not only a remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes friends, that he may be an heir according to the hope of eternal life"

When it says “becomes just” does this mean the immediate good works that we do at the moment of conversion or does this refer to another kind of becoming just?

It means both…

ALSO

"the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us…"

What does it mean when it says “receiving justice within us”?

It means just what it says…“receiving” is a present tense word…and, if I might suggest, a “continuous tense” word. We have received and are receiving justice into us…

Does this help?

Peace
James

 

[fhansen]

"Justification, which is not only a remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes friends, that he may be an heir according to the hope of eternal life"

When it says “becomes just” does this mean the immediate good works that we do at the moment of conversion or does this refer to another kind of becoming just?

ALSO

"the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us…"

What does it mean when it says “receiving justice within us”?

God causes us to be truly, ontologically just or righteous at first conversion/Baptism. But it doesn’t end there, as we struggle against sin and whether or not we will remain authentically converted and turned towards God. So in Catholicism, justification is a process, whereby we grow in justice, utilizing what we’re given (revelation, grace, time, opportunity)) the best we can. Read the Parable of the Talents to see how this plays out-and also Matt 25:31-46 to see how God’s grace should/must work within us to change our hearts to ones that express faith in love.

 

[Bookcat]

"Justification, which is not only a remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes friends, that he may be an heir according to the hope of eternal life"

When it says “becomes just” does this mean the immediate good works that we do at the moment of conversion or does this refer to another kind of becoming just?

One “becomes just” NOT from “immediate good works” but by the Grace of God.

One does not “become just” by ones works. But by the grace of God. From the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

---

"Paul helps us to understand the absolutely basic and irreplaceable value of faith. This is what he wrote in his Letter to the Romans: “We hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law” (3: 28).

This is what he also wrote in his Letter to the Galatians: “[M]an is not justified by works of the law but only through faith in Jesus Christ; even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified” (2: 16).

“Being justified” means being made righteous, that is, being accepted by God’s merciful justice to enter into communion with him and, consequently, to be able to establish a far more genuine relationship with all our brethren: and this takes place on the basis of the complete forgiveness of our sins.

Well, Paul states with absolute clarity that this condition of life does not depend on our possible good works but on the pure grace of God: “[We] are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3: 24). "

–Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

 

[TimothyH]

This is the second thread where Eric seems to have trouble with justification and works.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=717322

Eric, as others have stated on this and the other thread, works do not justify us.

The passages in the other thread and the citation from Trent have little or nothing to do with works but with the infusion of sanctifying grace as a gift from God out of his goodness and love for us. Catholicism does not teach justification by works. Justification through works is condemned heresy.

The catechism explains justification very well. vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm.

We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.

It could not be clearer.

-Tim-

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

I am just wondering what it means to be made just in that Trent statement… How could thus be without a change in behavior? Does our soul become just and not our behavior yet? What does god make righteous? The person? How so? By changing his behavior?

What I’m thinking is that it means our internal persons are now just meaning just like Adam beforethe fall.

 

[Bookcat]

I am just wondering what it means to be made just in that Trent statement… How could thus be without a change in behavior? Does our soul become just and not our behavior yet? What does god make righteous? The person? How so? By changing his behavior?

.

The Person is now a “new creation”. God makes the person holy. They are now “saints” and are to become more and more saints. They are now temples of the Holy Spirit who makes them then and there ‘holy’. The Person is changed – he is now “in Christ”.

The “good” behavior then comes forth as a fruit. By grace and the the persons free will --by his “walking in the Spirit”. The person of course will have various things to “mortify”-they will need to as Paul says “put to death by the Spirit” those things which are contrary to Christian life and will need to grow in virtue.

The person must continue to “put off the old man and put on the new”…by the Holy Spirit to seek the “renewal of the mind” …

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

OK, so what God ontologically makes righteous and sees as righteous is our soul itself?

 

[Bookcat]

One is at that moment – made holy. They are in a “state” of sanctifying grace. Are “in Christ”. Are “saints”.

If they die then – they go to heaven.

As they continue by the Holy Spirit to follow Christ and more and more be conformed to him – they can become more like him --can become more and more saints.

(If they commit a mortal sin by commission or grave omission – they lose the state of Grace and need the Holy Spirit to return them to such…)

 

[Bookcat]

OK, so what God ontologically makes righteous and sees as righteous is our soul itself?

Yes a person who repents and believes and is baptized – is by the Grace of God --indeed by the Holy Spirit by the Blood of Christ – made a new creation.

Not via the persons “work” but by the blood of Christ – there is a very real change. The person is now a new creation. He sees it as so in making it so

 

[Bookcat]

“In his First Letter to the Corinthians, St Paul addresses “those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (I Cor 1: 2). Indeed, Christians are* already* saints because Baptism unites them to Jesus and to his Paschal Mystery, but at the same time they must *become *so by conforming themselves every more closely to him. Sometimes, people think that holiness is a privileged condition reserved for the few elect. Actually, becoming holy is every Christian’s task, indeed, we could say, every person’s! The Apostle writes that God has always blessed us and has chosen us in Christ “that we should be holy and blameless before him… in love” (Eph 1: 3-5). …The “Way” is Christ, the Son, the Holy One of God: “no one comes to the Father but by me [Jesus]” (cf. Jn 14: 6).”

–Pope Benedict XVI (Wed. Aud Thursday, 1 November 2007)

 

[JRKH]

"Justification, which is not only a remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes friends, that he may be an heir according to the hope of eternal life"

When it says “becomes just” does this mean the immediate good works that we do at the moment of conversion or does this refer to another kind of becoming just?

ALSO

"the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us…"

What does it mean when it says “receiving justice within us”?

Erick…I have often times found that it is good to see more of the context for these kinds of things…I assume that the above comes from the sixth session of the council…Could you narrow it down a bit more?
It would perhaps help us to help you fit it all together with what the council is meaning.

Peace
James

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

Yes thus is that section on the council of Trent on ''what consists of justification ‘’

 

[JRKH]

Yes thus is that section on the council of Trent on ''what consists of justification ‘’

hhmmm…still having trouble tracking down the statements. I wonder if I’m looking at a different translation…
Do you know the chapter numbers within the session?

I am just wondering what it means to be made just in that Trent statement… How could thus be without a change in behavior? Does our soul become just and not our behavior yet? What does god make righteous? The person? How so? By changing his behavior?

I want to be careful here because I’m not sure how to understand your use of “change in behavior” above…
We are made Just by “repentance” and “conversion”, which re acts that (should) herald in a change in behavior.
If we think about criminal coming before a court falling to his knees and tearfully confessing all and promising reform such would be an act that the court might find it in its’ heart to forgive. But such forgiveness (justification) stem from a change in behavior? No - it stems from a promise - a sincere promise - to change behavior.

So would shy away from initial justification being the result of changed behavior…Howver if the change in behavior is not forthcoming…

What I’m thinking is that it means our internal persons are now just meaning just like Adam before the fall.

To an extent I agree with this. However, just as Adam and Eve fell from that state, so to might we if we do not continually respond to Gods grace and remain close to Him.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

One “becomes just” NOT from “immediate good works” but by the Grace of God.

One does not “become just” by ones works. But by the grace of God. From the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

---

"Paul helps us to understand the absolutely basic and irreplaceable value of faith. This is what he wrote in his Letter to the Romans: “We hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law” (3: 28).

This is what he also wrote in his Letter to the Galatians: “[M]an is not justified by works of the law but only through faith in Jesus Christ; even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified” (2: 16).

“Being justified” means being made righteous, that is, being accepted by God’s merciful justice to enter into communion with him and, consequently, to be able to establish a far more genuine relationship with all our brethren: and this takes place on the basis of the complete forgiveness of our sins.

Well, Paul states with absolute clarity that this condition of life does not depend on our possible good works but on the pure grace of God: “[We] are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3: 24). "

–Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html