What does it mean: "Pre trib" and "Millenarist Armenian"?

[beafedor]

Hello, I came across this conversation on social media. The first person said: “I am pre trib” and the other one answered “I’m kinda a Millenarist with Arminian theology”.
I have no idea but would like to understand what these two people mean. The first person said that he was raised Baptist and is now Non Denominational the second one is a Methodist. Can anybody translate please? (PS: I was not eavesdropping, it was in my news fed and I don’t know these people very well). Thanks!

 

[Publisher]

Hello, I came across this conversation on social media. The first person said: “I am pre trib” and the other one answered “I’m kinda a Millenarist with Arminian theology”.
I have no idea but would like to understand what these two people mean. The first person said that he was raised Baptist and is now Non Denominational the second one is a Methodist. Can anybody translate please? (PS: I was not eavesdropping, it was in my news fed and I don’t know these people very well). Thanks!

My first thought is a “pre trib” believer believes in the “rapture” of the Church before the Great Tribulation foretold in Revelation occurs. Many Evangelical/fundamentalist believers are in this catagory.

The “Millenarist/Arminian” believer fits more into the Adventist group of Christians…which include 7th Day Adventists, Latter Day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses to an extent…all have their beginnings in the 19th century. Most of the “Adventist” sects that tends to focus on a physical millenial kingdom being established at the end of the age…after the “millenium” is over…a new heavens and new earth is created after the old heavens and earth pass away.

I think that may be it in a nutshell.

 

[beafedor]

Thanks Publisher, that helps but I have a lot to learn because I’m not familiar with any of the Tribulation or Millennium teachings.

 

[Publisher]

Thanks Publisher, that helps but I have a lot to learn because I’m not familiar with any of the Tribulation or Millennium teachings.

The “Tribulation/pre-trib” belief system is the basis for the “Left Behind” series by Jenkins and Lahay…it was made very popular int he '70’s through Hal Lindsey’s “Late Great Planet Earth”…before that Ernest Angsley wrote “Rapture Rapture Rapture” which was a big hit among evangelical/fundamentalists.

The “millenial” beliefs of the various groups are each unique to the movement. The idea of a “utopian” society under the reign of God…the RLDS have their belief in Zion as spoken of in the Book of Mormon and the D&C. A good book…long out of print but very entertaining is “The Future’s Advocate” published by Herald House…

I think Ellen White’s writings…“Desire of Ages” and the “Great Controversy” deal with the millenial beliefs in more depth.

 

[Barbkw]

Hello, I came across this conversation on social media. The first person said: “I am pre trib” and the other one answered “I’m kinda a Millenarist with Arminian theology”.
I have no idea but would like to understand what these two people mean. The first person said that he was raised Baptist and is now Non Denominational the second one is a Methodist. Can anybody translate please? (PS: I was not eavesdropping, it was in my news fed and I don’t know these people very well). Thanks!

Before I came back to the Church, I’d listen to various protestant denomination programming on television where these issues were discussed.

I started thinking the Catholic Church was “behind the times” as I knew these topics were not in Catholic theology or ever discussed at Mass.

I happened to watch Scott Hahn on EWTN with Mike Aqualina discussing Hahn’s book titled, “The Lamb’s Supper”. Hahn, a protestant convert to Catholism, began explaining how some denominations view Revelation and then he compared that to how Catholics and the Early Church have alway viewed John’s writings in Revelation.

The reviews of Hahn’s book are available on Amazon (175 of them )

If you have the time, it’s interesting to read what people from protestant denominations say about Hahn’s book.

amazon.com/Lambs-Supper-Mass-Heaven-Earth/dp/0385496591

Thankfully now, I have solid ground to stand on when I hear Protestants talk about the the pretribulation.

John’s visions speak about the continual Eucharist, the celebration of the Mass and the Wedding Supper of the Lamb.

Something protestant denominations miss.

 

[Zooey]

Arminians are those of us who reject John Calvin’s “five points”.
Let me see if I can remember any of them…they spell “tulip”.
T (can’t recall)
U (can’t recall)
L-- Limited atonement (Christ died only for the elect, not the whole world).
I --Irresistable grace (The elect have no choice as to whether they are saved, they just ARE elect and WILL …even if they leave Christianity altogether).
P–Perseverance of the believer. (The elect never, ever move away from God & belief).

And now a Calvinist will come along and tell me I am wrong…
Really, all I know is, that I have read up on them (but my brain is as old as I am & I don’t retain things well any more). And I didn’t believe in** any** of them.
You could google “Jacob Arminius”. He wrote a refutation of Calvin; hence the name.

 

[HaroldA]

Arminians are those of us who reject John Calvin’s “five points”.
Let me see if I can remember any of them…they spell “tulip”.
T (can’t recall)
U (can’t recall)
L-- Limited atonement (Christ died only for the elect, not the whole world).
I --Irresistable grace (The elect have no choice as to whether they are saved, they just ARE elect and WILL …even if they leave Christianity altogether).
P–Perseverance of the believer. (The elect never, ever move away from God & belief).
.

T = Total Depravity of man/humankind

U = Unconditional Election - God chooses whom he will save and damns the rest

 

[tsering]

I can speak to the “Pre trib” one, as I used to be one also:

“Pre-trib” Christians fall under the category of Dispensational Premillennialism (as opposed to Historic Premillennialism (Post trib), Postmillennialism, and Amillennialism).

They believe that Christ’s second coming encompasses two events, the first before a literal 7 year tribulation (called the rapture), the second after the tribulation. They believe the “true” church (i.e. those who believe in faith alone for their salvation) will be raptured suddenly and surprisingly before the Antichrist begins his reign of terror and God’s final judgments are poured upon the earth. At the end of the 7 years, Christ will return at the repentance of the Jewish nation, the Old Testament and “tribulation saints” will be resurrected, Christ will rebuild Jerusalem and the nation Israel, while reigning on earth in peace (except that little rebellion by Satan at the end of it) over the nations for a literal 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years, unbelievers will be resurrected in the “Great White Throne Judgment” and will be sent to Hell for eternity, while a new heavens and earth will be created.

They appeal to a literal hermeneutic on eschatological passages of the Bible, while also claiming that many Church Fathers held a very literal view of Christ actually returning to establish a kingdom and were also quite literal in their interpretation of the coming millennium (1000 years), among them Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian. (The Moody Handbook of Theology, Paul Enns, pg. 389)

A website to get their perspective from a famous scholar of theirs: www.ariel.org

Peace

 

[Barbkw]

Something that adds into this discussion is the difference between Protestant and Catholic theology concerning what happens to a person’s soul after death.

I was shocked when I first realized - in conversation with a person who was raised Lutheran - what he believed about the afterlife.

Where Catholics have this spirituality with saints and souls (Church Militant, Church Triumphant, Church Suffering) and a belief that our souls are immediately judged, that is not what most Protestants believe.

The Lutheran man I spoke with, thought that departed souls were both inactive and unable to assist humanity in any way.

 

[beafedor]

Thank you all for all the answers. Barbkw, you are right I am not comfortable having a conversation with a Protestant about afterlife because the things they say sounds so strange to me. For example, my Baptist friend said the other day: “and when we cast our crowns at the feet of Jesus and He gives us lands to rule, who knows what kind of wonderful country I’m going to rule! I can’t wait!”

 

[HaroldA]

For example, my Baptist friend said the other day: “and when we cast our crowns at the feet of Jesus and He gives us lands to rule, who knows what kind of wonderful country I’m going to rule! I can’t wait!”

Many of my relatives and friends are Southern Baptist. I have never heard anything at all about ruling countries. That sounds more like Mormonism.

 

[tsering]

Many of my relatives and friends are Southern Baptist. I have never heard anything at all about ruling countries. That sounds more like Mormonism.

Actually, it’s inline with some branches of Dispensationalism - which has influenced many independent Baptist churches, which are probably not affiliated with the Southern Baptists. Just think about it. They believe Christ will come to the earth and establish an earthly Kingdom with Jerusalem as His capital. He will restore the nation Israel, which by this time has repented of their unbelief and converted to Him, and will reign over nations of the earth. Since the saints, resurrected by this time are called to reign with Him, many Dispensationalists believe that they will actually have rule over the nations as Christ co-workers in the coming 1000 year millennium.

Peace