What Does It Mean To Be A Catholic

[kb_c]

Dear Faithful,

Reading the posting in these forums; it seems that being a Catholic has become quite a complicated endeavor . I have taught religion to Catholic youth and learned my faith from some of the great minds on the teachings of Christ and Biblical history. I mention this to sent the tone for what I am about to write.

I hope that I am not sounding offensive, when I say that anyone not familiar with debates we Catholics have had over the centuries, which have ranged and continue to range from the ridiculous to the sublime; would feel very much left out and never understand what it is really means to be Catholic.

With the dwindling number of practicing Catholics, may be it’s time to get back to the simple teachings of Christ, which are to follow the eleven (yes eleven - Matt. 19: 19) Commandments; do good works;be humble, rejoice in all that we do, and throw in avoiding the 7 deadly sins for good measure.

In the end, people will know us by our actions and good deeds and not by our debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Talking amongst ourselves on lofty complex Biblical interpretations does not bring salvation.

Peace,
Ken

 

[Junebug999]

Talking amongst ourselves on lofty complex Biblical interpretations does not bring salvation. /QUOTE]

Yessssssssssssssss, but, some of us do find it interesting to discuss subjects. And some of find it fun too. I don’t believe harm is done by it, in fact I’ve learned a lot from looking at all sides presented in these forums.

 

[Church_Militant]

Ken,
I think the problem here is that you mistake a teaching and apologetics site for something else.

You want to return to the very basics of what Our Lord taught?

No Problem…

19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. (Matthew 28)

If and when your children are accosted by some fundamentalist with a Bible in one hand and his best anti-Catholic diatribe blazing from his mouth as he does his best to convince your kids to “come out from among her my people” you might well be GLAD to have Catholic Answers Forums around to be used of the Holy Spirit to help you keep those children in our most holy faith.

While you are teaching the faith to others…(which is immensely laudable) you and many like you have missed a great many of the rest of us and while we are busily doing our best to live out our faith in the real world, we also find the time to help those who use their computers to get the answers that you cannot be there to give.

I think you’d do well to think about that too.

 

[1ke]

Catholicism is NOT an anti-intellectual religion-- thank God for that. In fact, quite the opposite. The Pope is highly educated and HE himself talks “on lofty complex Biblical interpretations” as do the other Bishops, theologians, and scholars.

What you propose is a Protestant fundamentalist approach to the Faith, not a Catholic approach to the Faith.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Dear Faithful,

Reading the posting in these forums; it seems that being a Catholic has become quite a complicated endeavor . I have taught religion to Catholic youth and learned my faith from some of the great minds on the teachings of Christ and Biblical history. I mention this to sent the tone for what I am about to write.

I hope that I am not sounding offensive, when I say that anyone not familiar with debates we Catholics have had over the centuries, which have ranged and continue to range from the ridiculous to the sublime; would feel very much left out and never understand what it is really means to be Catholic.

With the dwindling number of practicing Catholics, may be it’s time to get back to the simple teachings of Christ, which are to follow the eleven (yes eleven - Matt. 19: 19) Commandments; do good works;be humble, rejoice in all that we do, and throw in avoiding the 7 deadly sins for good measure.

In the end, people will know us by our actions and good deeds and not by our debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Talking amongst ourselves on lofty complex Biblical interpretations does not bring salvation.

Peace,
Ken

For me, I think we are better served to focus not on what we have to do for our Salvation but to Trust in His Mercy and Justice and that God’s graces will always be sufficient for us to gain Salvation. All it requires us is to properly repsond.

One can follow all that you instruct and still be an atheist by just looking at your list as a “guide for a good life.” Living a “good life” is not our call. It is to know God, love God, and serve God with our whole mind, heart, and soul.

Know God: Study all Revelation. Holy Tradition, Holy Scripture, Holy Teaching, and Holy Creation. Then go to Him in Prayer. His personal instruction to our Concience is also Revelation which we must synthesize and incorporate into what He Reveals in Tradition, Scripture, Teaching and Creation.

Love God: This is the hard part for me as it requires a giving of self in submission and obedience. My Spiritual Director tells me that to love someone, you must first place yourself in their Love. So, spiritually, I try to open myself to His Love.

But, you can’t love what you don’t know. Thus, knowledge (accurate knowledge) of who God is is critical. In my mind, so much of the disunity, sin and chaos in this world is related to a lack of knowledge of who God is. This leads to “submission” to something/someone that they believe is God but is really just a creation of their own mind.

Serve God: It is easy to then serve one who you love.

This being said Ken, I know what you are saying by observation. My wife wouldn’t be any more interested in Apologetics or even must learning. If the Church says it, she follows. She has no need to understand why. No women Priests. No problem. Mary is a perpetual Virgin. No problem. Feed the poor. No problem. Visit the hurting. No problem. Give Jesus your worries. Have them. She thinks all these questions and debates is an indication of a lack of trust. And, after years of being with her, I realize that she doesn’t want to ask them because it would mean she lacks trust.

For me, I ask because I trust. Answers for me are armor. The answer to Mary’s Prepetual Virginity tells me something about God. The falacy of Sola Scriptura tells me something about God. The reason Christ remains with us in the Eucharist tells me something about God. Understanding the hierarchy of the Church or its history, tells me something about God.

 

[blossom02]

Every one is different. Some are simple and they are quit satified with that and others always question everything and have to reason with it in their minds.

I my self was just the simple and believed what the church taught and I loved the CC with all my heart.

Then when I was confronted with a protestant telling my daughter that she was not worth marrying because she was catholic, I had to go a bit deeper to answer to all these questions that they threw at her. We do need to be prepared and starting with the simple is good. Now I see that we do need to go past the basics and help them to grow so they can know why they are catholic.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Every one is different. Some are simple and they are quit satified with that and others always question everything and have to reason with it in their minds.

I my self was just the simple and believed what the church taught and I loved the CC with all my heart.

Then when I was confronted with a protestant telling my daughter that she was not worth marrying because she was catholic, I had to go a bit deeper to answer to all these questions that they threw at her. We do need to be prepared and starting with the simple is good. Now I see that we do need to go past the basics and help them to grow so they can know why they are catholic.

I agree with you. Basics are good but growth needs to happen if we are to survive in a world that wants to undermine our faith at every turn, from the secular to the other religions. Faith is simple, perseverance can be more difficult and we may need more weapons to win that battle, putting on the whole armor of God.

 

[Fidelis]

As in many aspects of Catholicism (which is why it is such a great religion and the most logical and most spiritually mature), it is not a matter of either/or, but of both/and.

For example, in the Imitation of Christ, Thomas a’ Kempis says:

IMITATING CHRIST AND DESPISING ALL VANITIES ON EARTH
HE WHO follows Me, walks not in darkness," says the Lord.[John 8:12.] By these words of Christ we are advised to imitate His life and habits, if we wish to be truly enlightened and free from all blindness of heart. Let our chief effort, therefore, be to study the life of Jesus Christ.

The teaching of Christ is more excellent than all the advice of the saints, and he who has His spirit will find in it a hidden manna. Now, there are many who hear the Gospel often but care little for it because they have not the spirit of Christ. Yet whoever wishes to understand fully the words of Christ must try to pattern his whole life on that of Christ.

What good does it do to speak learnedly about the Trinity if, lacking humility, you displease the Trinity? Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God. I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it. For what would it profit us to know the whole Bible by heart and the principles of all the philosophers if we live without grace and the love of God? Vanity of vanities and all is vanity, except to love God and serve Him alone.

This is the greatest wisdom – to seek the kingdom of heaven through contempt of the world. It is vanity, therefore, to seek and trust in riches that perish. It is vanity also to court honor and to be puffed up with pride. It is vanity to follow the lusts of the body and to desire things for which severe punishment later must come. It is vanity to wish for long life and to care little about a well-spent life. It is vanity to be concerned with the present only and not to make provision for things to come. It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides.

Often recall the proverb: “The eye is not satisfied with seeing nor the ear filled with hearing.”[Eccles. 1:8.] Try, moreover, to turn your heart from the love of things visible and bring yourself to things invisible. For they who follow their own evil passions stain their consciences and lose the grace of God.

However…

My favorite Pope, Paul VI, said this after Vatican II in the context of evangelization, but it applies to the apostolate of the laity in the world in general:

1. Above all the Gospel must be proclaimed by witness. Take a Christian or a handful of Christians who, in the midst of their own community, show their capacity for understanding and acceptance, their sharing of life and destiny with other people, their solidarity with the efforts of all for whatever is noble and good. Let us suppose that, in addition, they radiate in an altogether simple and unaffected way their faith in values that go beyond current values, and their hope in something that is not seen and that one would not dare to imagine. Through this wordless witness these Christians stir up irresistible questions in the hearts of those who see how they live: Why are they like this? Why do they live in this way? What or who is it that inspires them? Why are they in our midst? Such a witness is already a silent proclamation of the Good News and a very powerful and effective one. Here we have an initial act of evangelization. The above questions will ask, whether they are people to whom Christ has never been proclaimed, or baptized people who do not practice, or people who live as nominal Christians but according to principles that are in no way Christian, or people who are seeking, and not without suffering, something or someone whom they sense but cannot name. Other questions will arise, deeper and more demanding ones, questions evoked by this witness which involves presence, sharing, solidarity, and which is an essential element, and generally the first one, in evangelization."

All Christians are called to this witness, and in this way they can be real evangelizers…

22.** Nevertheless this always remains insufficient, because even the finest witness will prove ineffective in the long run if it is not explained, justified – what Peter called always having “your answer ready for people who ask you the reason for the hope that you all have” [1 Pt 3:15] – and made explicit by a clear and unequivocal proclamation of the Lord Jesus.** The Good News proclaimed by the witness of life sooner or later has to be proclaimed by the word of life. There is no true evangelization if the name, the teaching, the life, the promises, the kingdom and the mystery of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God are not proclaimed. The history of the Church, from the discourse of Peter on the morning of Pentecost onwards, has been intermingled and identified with the history of this proclamation. At every new phase of human history, the Church, constantly gripped by the desire to evangelize, has but one preoccupation: whom to send to proclaim the mystery of Jesus? In what way is this mystery to be proclaimed? How can one ensure that it will resound and reach all those who should hear it? This proclamation – kerygma, preaching or catechesis – occupies such an important place in evangelization that it has often become synonymous with it; and yet it is only one aspect of evangelization. (On Evangelization In The Modern World, Evangelii Nuntiandi, 1974)

 

[Jeanette_L]

As in many aspects of Catholicism (which is why it is such a great religion and the most logical and most spiritually mature), it is not a matter of either/or, but of both/and.

Excellent post.

 

[rwoehmke]

Not long after Vatican II it was very common to belong to a discussion group and feel like we were really good Catholics. One of my Jesuit Retreat Directors used to say,“You can belong to all sorts of discussion groups and still go to hell.” What he was really saying is that it is not just what you know or think you know, but that it is also important what you do with that interesting stuff. It was true that there was a sort of spirit about that belonging to a discussion group made one a good catholic.

In this day and age, we cannot afford for all of us to have just a simple Faith as we are as much under attack as Catholics as we were in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. The latest news that 30 percent of all those who were born and baptized Catholic in the U.S. have left the Church is a real wake up call. If it weren’t for the Hispanic immigrants we would represent only 15 percent of the U.S. population and not 22 %. Sobering!

 

[kb_c]

Appreciate everyone’s thoughtful responses.

There seems to be a common thread among some of the emails, which is the Catholic Church is under assault, assuming from other Christian denominations. The challenge we face in spreading the Word is mostly due to the rising secular and material influence on our culture rather than any evangelical movement. In other words, spirituality is no longer in vogue. The only way to overcome this is demonstrating our beliefs through our daily lives and good works and not closing in and defending our beliefs with complex sounding religious terms. Also, need to clarify a point, discussing our beliefs is a good thing, it just a matter of how it is done.

For example, I have had discussions with Sunni Muslims on Muslim and Catholic beliefs. The end result was that we saw no difference between the Muslim idea of a spiritual life and the Catholic idea of a spiritual life. There was disagreement on Jesus being born of virgin birth. This means that Jesus being the Messiah was not contrary to their beliefs and they saw no argument with the infallibility of the Pope. (This may explain the response of the Muslims, when the Pope used a quote from a 13th (?) century Christian ruler to describe Christian and Muslim relationships.) So, in my mind the difference of the conception of Jesus is a matter of faith and not something that can be debated with certainty. So, why continue the argument? It is better to discuss those beliefs that we control and not those based on faith alone. If we had continued the debate on the Immaculate Conception we would never have reached an understanding of the similarity of beliefs, the acceptance of most of the Catholic tenants and the fact our God is the God of Abraham and Jesus is the Son of God. Also have had religious discussions with Latter Day Saints and Jehovah Witnesses. Once I was able to put aside those elements of their religions that are based on faith and therefore something we cannot change through debate, such as the Mormons believe the soul pre-exists the human conception and Jehovah Witnesses want to discuss whether we go to our after-life at the time of death or do we decay until the Final Judgment (There are biblical accounts that go both ways on this.). These missionaries quit talking and began listening. When we were done, they left with the mutual understanding that we agreed on how we should live our lives and some food for thought regarding the parts of Catholic beliefs that we can control. If nothing else happened to them, at least they had something to ponder, if their religious leaders attacked Catholics. Granted, none of this led to mass conversions, but it was a small gain for the followers of our faith and later on, with some more positive experiences with Catholics…who knows.

Peace,
Ken

 

[KathleenElsie]

I agree with you. Basics are good but growth needs to happen if we are to survive in a world that wants to undermine our faith at every turn, from the secular to the other religions. Faith is simple, perseverance can be more difficult and we may need more weapons to win that battle, putting on the whole armor of God.

The basics need to be there for the growth to take place. The PhD does not come prior to kindergarten. My problem is we are not teaching the basics necessary to understand the further teachings.

Catholicism is both a faith and a lifestyle. One does not exist without the other. IMHO.

Still, local customs aside, our children need to be taught the basics and many of our adults IMHO need to be taught them also.

 

[Church_Militant]

Still, local customs aside, our children need to be taught the basics and many of our adults IMHO need to be taught them also.

I know I did!

 

[agangbern]

It is everything that God wants us to be…

 

[planter654]

Dear Faithful,

Reading the posting in these forums; it seems that being a Catholic has become quite a complicated endeavor . I have taught religion to Catholic youth and learned my faith from some of the great minds on the teachings of Christ and Biblical history. I mention this to sent the tone for what I am about to write.

I hope that I am not sounding offensive, when I say that anyone not familiar with debates we Catholics have had over the centuries, which have ranged and continue to range from the ridiculous to the sublime; would feel very much left out and never understand what it is really means to be Catholic.

With the dwindling number of practicing Catholics, may be it’s time to get back to the simple teachings of Christ, which are to follow the eleven (yes eleven - Matt. 19: 19) Commandments; do good works;be humble, rejoice in all that we do, and throw in avoiding the 7 deadly sins for good measure.

In the end, people will know us by our actions and good deeds and not by our debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Talking amongst ourselves on lofty complex Biblical interpretations does not bring salvation.

Peace,
Ken

I agree with you and well said. To me it is not important to be titled a Catholic for I am not here to become a Catholic, but a child of God and to obey his commandments. To know God and to accomplish what God desires and wills for me.

The Catholic Church seems to me and please forgive me, more interested in being known to have the only way, to God and is the only one who has been giving authority over all human beings.

Catholic Church seems to want to glorify themselves instead of teaching, (commandments) baptizeing and obeying Jesus. Only Jesus has been given… ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth. Jesus commanded the apostles to obey him and to teach to all the nations and make all disciples of the nations. We are all called to become disciples, Holy Saints for our father is HOLY.

We, each one who believes make up God’s Church, his Kingdom, Christ bride. We become the body of Christ all members of “one body” serving one another, but Jesus Christ is HIGH PRIEST FOR EVER over his Church, the Kingdom of God. I believe Jesus Christ did not hand over His kingdom yet, not until all the gentles are in. Were we not the gentles when Jesus walked the earth? Was not St. Paul choosen by Jesus to become the apostle to the gentles? God said: Sit at my right hand till I make all the gentles your footstool.

God is an eternal living God. For God said. I am the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

God Bless a very little child of God

 

[davidv]

I agree with you and well said. To me it is not important to be titled a Catholic for I am not here to become a Catholic, but a child of God and to obey his commandments. To know God and to accomplish what God desires and wills for me.

The Catholic Church seems to me and please forgive me, more interested in being known to have the only way, to God and is the only one who has been giving authority over all human beings.

Catholic Church seems to want to glorify themselves instead of teaching, (commandments) baptizeing and obeying Jesus. Only Jesus has been given… ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth. Jesus commanded the apostles to obey him and to teach to all the nations and make all disciples of the nations. We are all called to become disciples, Holy Saints for our father is HOLY.

We, each one who believes make up God’s Church, his Kingdom, Christ bride. We become the body of Christ all members of “one body” serving one another, but Jesus Christ is HIGH PRIEST FOR EVER over his Church, the Kingdom of God. I believe Jesus Christ did not hand over His kingdom yet, not until all the gentles are in. Were we not the gentles when Jesus walked the earth? Was not St. Paul choosen by Jesus to become the apostle to the gentles? God said: Sit at my right hand till I make all the gentles your footstool.

God is an eternal living God. For God said. I am the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

God Bless a very little child of God

Based on the above, you ought to ask for your money back from whomever taught you about the Catholic Church. There is so much incorrect carricature in this post that is must be dismissed out of hand.

 

[agangbern]

I agree with you and well said. To me it is not important to be titled a Catholic for I am not here to become a Catholic, but a child of God and to obey his commandments. To know God and to accomplish what God desires and wills for me.

But you stated in your public profile that you are Catholic, or was it simply a typographical error?

The Catholic Church seems to me and please forgive me, more interested in being known to have the only way, to God and is the only one who has been giving authority over all human beings.

“Authority over all human beings”! What is that? As in, “human beings have no free will”? The Catholic Church does not give out herself as teaching that!

Catholic Church seems to want to glorify themselves instead of teaching, (commandments) baptizeing and obeying Jesus. Only Jesus has been given… ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth. Jesus commanded the apostles to obey him and to teach to all the nations and make all disciples of the nations. We are all called to become disciples, Holy Saints for our father is HOLY.

The Church is bride of the Lord Jesus. The bride and the groom are one just as the head is one with the body. The two are inseparable from each other.

God said: Sit at my right hand till I make all the gentles your footstool.

Ooops! I am sure God did not say that!

 

[planter654]

Based on the above, you ought to ask for your money back from whomever taught you about the Catholic Church. There is so much incorrect carricature in this post that is must be dismissed out of hand.

I will let God be the judge of that.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

But you stated in your public profile that you are Catholic, or was it simply a typographical error?

“Authority over all human beings”! What is that? As in, “human beings have no free will”? The Catholic Church does not give out herself as teaching that!

The Church is bride of the Lord Jesus. The bride and the groom are one just as the head is one with the body. The two are inseparable from each other.

Ooops! I am sure God did not say that!

You are right I said that wrong I am sorry … till I make the earth your footstool.

I agree and believe the same when you say the church is the bride of the Lord Jesus. We are all called to become the bride each and every soul who make up God’s Church. the Church is not a building! The bride and the groom are “one” just as the head is “one” with the body. The two are inseparable from each other. I agree. We are all called to become “ONE” in Jesus as Jesus is “ONE” in God. We All become “ONE”, thou many members serving each other in the same body but all are “ONE”.

There is only “ONE GOD”, ONE KINGDOM, ONE CHURCH, ONE FAMILY. Not “our thoughts” be done, but all are one with the thoughts, will, desire of God.

God Bless

 

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by **planter654 **

Since your post was short on facts and full of personal opinion and misinformed speculation, I think you are well on your way to making yourself judge in place of God.