What does it mean to be a Traditional Catholic?

[friardchips]

By this logic we should not have Franciscans, Dominicans or Augustinians. They should simply refer to themselves as “Friars” and not distinguish between themselves since it creates “divisions” (despite them having radically different charisms).

God called St. Francis, St. Dominic and St. Augustine individually but for the good of the Church - their Orders were started to serve in different areas of mission in full accordance with Rome. This has nothing to do with ‘Traditional Catholicism’. Saints helped to bring faith to different areas of the world, to build up the Church, not divide her!

At any rate, my point remains that you asked for a definition of traditional Catholicism and have been given it. No one is here to debate whether it is appropriate to use labels within the Church.

Thank you for your definitions!

 

[michaelhagg]

God called St. Francis, St. Dominic and St. Augustine individually but for the good of the Church - their Orders were started to serve in different areas of mission in full accordance with Rome. This has nothing to do with ‘Traditional Catholicism’. Saints helped to bring faith to different areas of the world, to build up the Church, not divide her!

Are not traditional practices (i.e. those associated with “traditional” Catholicism) a way to evangelize that is unique? Serving a different population of people (i.e., traditional Catholics)? Who ever said trads want to divide the Church?

“What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too” - Benedict XVI

 

[friardchips]

I wonder why it is that people refer to St Paul’s writings when he was dealing with specific issues in such different times…

St. Paul was a part of Holy Scripture. What he says has to be venerated as containing authentic and wholesome truth containing eternal truths that he is preaching straight from the Holy Spirit.

This is different to a Pope. That is not to say that Popes are not holy or cannot prophesy but rather a Pope’s main function is to steer the Church through the issues of the day. St. Paul, as mentioned, was not only responding to practical issues of the day, but spreading the Good News of the Word of God to a world who, as of yet, had not heard of Christ, his mission was an entirely different thing altogether. This seems again a rather odd comparison to make.

 

[friardchips]

Hence, why St. Peter was St. Peter and St. Paul was St. Paul and why one had one mission and the other, another. Your comparison of St. Paul with a Pope is like comparing St. Peter with St. Paul.

 

[ccmcmg]

Dear ccmcmg, what a sincere and lovely statement to make. - a breath of fresh air in a high temperature debate.

Thanks. I think it’s tempting to get into a debate about which way is ‘more Catholic’ or ‘better Catholic’. It might be to make ourselves feel better about our choices, or to rationalize them, or other thoughts or agendas we might not even realize we have. My brothers and sisters, let us be one, as Catholics.
We have the same rules, rubrics, commandments, Pope, and most of all, God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Would He tell us He prefers one or the other? I think He’d tell us to love one another and embrace each other, differences and likenesses. Let the world draw the lines around us; we should not draw lines between us.

Peace.

 

[friardchips]

Are not traditional practices (i.e. those associated with “traditional” Catholicism) a way to evangelize that is unique? Serving a different population of people (i.e., traditional Catholics)?

This is exactly what I am saying.

michaelhagg:

Who ever said trads want to divide the Church?

You just did.

“What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too” - Benedict XVI

No one is doubting this.

 

[friardchips]

Thanks. I think it’s tempting to get into a debate about which way is ‘more Catholic’ or ‘better Catholic’. It might be to make ourselves feel better about our choices, or to rationalize them, or other thoughts or agendas we might not even realize we have. My brothers and sisters, let us be one, as Catholics.
We have the same rules, rubrics, commandments, Pope, and most of all, God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Would He tell us He prefers one or the other? I think He’d tell us to love one another and embrace each other, differences and likenesses. Let the world draw the lines around us; we should not draw lines between us.

Peace.

So true. Thank you again. This is why I wonder about segregation, even if one is segmenting oneself off even partially from the whole, and even for apparent ‘good’ reasons, it still has a knock on effect for everyone else. Why can’t we just all be Roman Catholics? Catholic means universal.

And peace to you

 

[godisgood77]

As its commonly used, it indicates an attachment to the traditional (preconciliar) liturgical, devotional, and theological patrimony of the Roman rite.

I would agree with this statement.

My opinion would be that adding the word “Traditional” adds nothing to actually being Catholic. Also, (and please don’t take this wrong way) the people I have met that self identify as traditional Catholic think they know better than the Church. Not to say that all people with a preference for so-called traditional liturgical, devotional and theological patrimony are that way, just the ones that I’ve met.

 

[friardchips]

I would agree with this statement.

My opinion would be that adding the word “Traditional” adds nothing to actually being Catholic. Also, (and please don’t take this wrong way) the people I have met that self identify as traditional Catholic think they know better than the Church. Not to say that all people with a preference for so-called traditional liturgical, devotional and theological patrimony are that way, just the ones that I’ve met.

Hello! Thank you for joining the thread. The thing is that maybe ‘Traditional Catholics’ innocently take on this title without thinking about the consequences. They may do this initially because they feel very upset and hard done by, but without realizing that the moment one takes on a title other than the one we are given by our baptism, there is a subtle thing which kicks in, telling the mind that one is ‘better than’, in some way. Now, I am sure that ‘Trad-Cats’ are all lovely special people individually, all with their own talents and characters, but not more special or important as a group of Christians than all the rest of the Roman Catholics.

 

[friardchips]

…‘trad-Caths’ not ‘trad-cats’!

 

[Jack007]

So true. Thank you again. This is why I wonder about segregation, even if one is segmenting oneself off even partially from the whole, and even for apparent ‘good’ reasons, it still has a knock on effect for everyone else. Why can’t we just all be Roman Catholics? Catholic means universal.

And peace to you

There is more that unites trad caths and others than different sui iuris churches. (Relatively.)
And, traditional catholics and non traditional catholics are equal- same. There is no greater and lesser type.

Think of it this way - You can walk to a destination. The path is broad, no vehicles,safe,etc. You can walk on the left,right,centre,etc. Both reach the same destination. Both are equal.

 

[friardchips]

There is more that unites trad caths and others than different sui iuris churches. (Relatively.)
And, traditional catholics and non traditional catholics are equal- same. There is no greater and lesser type.

Interesting viewpoint. So if we are all ‘in the same boat’ then why the need for labels? Why not just all be called Roman Catholics? If we are equal anyway.

Think of it this way - You can walk to a destination. The path is broad, no vehicles,safe,etc. You can walk on the left,right,centre,etc. Both reach the same destination. Both are equal.

Yes and no. There is still a road on which we are to travel. A narrow path. A path that includes trusting one’s current Holy Father as Chief Shepherd. Because of the succession of Popes in line with St. Peter. He is not infallible but he is also not to be rebelled against. I see it as sinful and negligent.

 

[clem456]

Labels divide people by nature. I understand they are used to differentiate groups of people with different points of view. Very helpful in politics. The Catholic Church should be different.

I think it’s possible for Catholics to have differing tastes in liturgy, different devotional practices, and still embrace the simple word Catholic.

 

[Jack007]

Interesting viewpoint. So if we are all ‘in the same boat’ then why the need for labels? Why not just all be called Roman Catholics? If we are equal anyway.

As i said, we are called Catholics. We are equal. But there can be multiple equal groups, right?

Yes and no. There is still a road on which we are to travel. A narrow path. A path that includes trusting one’s current Holy Father as Chief Shepherd. Because of the succession of Popes in line with St. Peter. He is not infallible but he is also not to be rebelled against. I see it as sinful and negligent.

rebelling against the pope is sinful and negligent, but he is infalliable

 

[friardchips]

but he is infalliable

Me back peddling big time Thank you muchly for pointing out my error!

The POPE IS INFALLIBLE - PAPAL INFALLIBILITY.

Apologies!

 

[Jack007]

may i patiently,humbly,politely,without stirring new controversy and problems,(no sarcasm, no teasing intended.)ask you to go through my posts #49 and #58. this is just a reminder in case you have forgoten about this when you misunderstood me. reply in your own time.

 

[Jack007]

Me back peddling big time Thank you muchly for pointing out my error!

The POPE IS INFALLIBLE - on matters of doctrine, faith and morals.

Apologies!

yes and you are welcome. but to say, he is not infalliable outside faith,doctrine and morals.

 

[ProVobis]

…according to council of trent.

Technically, the anathema imposed referred to “received and approved” rites. Pope Pius V clarified that by stating that those rites not in existence 200 years prior to that were abrogated.

 

[friardchips]

Labels divide people by nature. I understand they are used to differentiate groups of people with different points of view. Very helpful in politics. The Catholic Church should be different.

I think it’s possible for Catholics to have differing tastes in liturgy, different devotional practices, and still embrace the simple word Catholic.

Thank you for joining the thread. And thank you for answering my thread directly.

You summed up in a much clearer way with your examples what I have been attempting to express.

 

[clem456]

This comes up in parish life quite a bit.
I don’t think video screens should be used at Mass, or that praise and worship music should be used at Mass. And so people categorize me as a traditionalist and wonder why I’m “against” this and that. My official response is, I’m not a traditionalist or any kind of “ist”, I’m simply Catholic.

I’m not “against” anything the Church does, if something the Church does bothers me, it’s most likely me that must change. OK no problem.
I’m not against having young people at Mass, and I’m not adverse to change, not against ongoing conversion (duh). Labeling people into categories is the sure sign of a bankrupt agenda that can’t adequately put forth positive reasons for it’s own point of view.

For example…I believe the Church calls for the Gospel and homily to be proclaimed by a real person, not telecast on a screen. I can trace that belief right to the incarnation of Jesus Christ and I can express those reasons. People look at me like I have two heads. People who want video screens go on about being modern for the young people. That’s the whole depth of their point of view. All they can do is accuse others of being stodgy.

This is why Catholics do themselves a disservice by self identifying as Traditionalists. Just call yourselves Catholic and talk about the things that are important to you. If your point of view has merit, it may win the day.

Catholicism is a unique thing, in that draws towards unity, not towards factions.