What does it mean to be "sufficiently catchecized?"

[Richard320]

Another thread gave the idea for this topic.

So…What does it mean to be “sufficiently catchecized?”

I suggest

• Understanding that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus
• That all religions are not equal
• The Eucharist is not a symbol. It is, in fact, Jesus
• Sex outside of marriage is a sin
• Attending Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation is not optional

Let’s see what others add

 

[grasscutter]

I’m not sure any average person is ever sufficiently catchecized. Speaking only for myself, I am continuously learning and growing in my faith and I expect and hope to continue to do so until the moment of my death.

 

[Corki]

Another thread gave the idea for this topic.

So…What does it mean to be “sufficiently catchecized?”

I suggest

• Understanding that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus
• That all religions are not equal
• The Eucharist is not a symbol. It is, in fact, Jesus
• Sex outside of marriage is a sin
• Attending Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation is not optional

Let’s see what others add

“sufficient” is going to be measured by the situation at hand. For example, if we are taking about a couple preparing for marriage, being sufficiently catechised would include learning what the church teaches about marriage, children, procreation and sex.

If the situation is being a religious education teacher, our diocese has a standard that includes being conversant in Scripture, Church history, morality, spirituality, all of the major themes in the CCC and social justice.

What is not “sufficient” is for a Catholic to truncate his learning at the level needed to receive the Sacraments of First Communion and Confirmation.

 

[Marchmain1987]

The “old” Profession of Faith sums it all up:

PROFESSION OF FAITH

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; on the third day he arose again; he ascended into heaven, he sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence forth he shall come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy Catholic Church, the Communion of the Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

---

I admit and embrace most firmly the apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and all the other constitutions and prescriptions of the Church.

I admit the sacred Scriptures according to the sense which has been held and is still held by Holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge the true sense and interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures, and I shall never accept or interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.

I profess that the Sacraments of the New Law are, truly and precisely, seven in number, instituted for the salvation of mankind, though all are not necessary for each individual: Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. I profess that all confer grace and that of these Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders cannot be repeated without sacrilege.

I also accept and admit the Ritual of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of all the above mentioned Sacraments.

I accept and hold, in each and every part, all that has been defined and declared by the Sacred Council of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification. I profess that in the Mass is offered to God a true, real and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead; that in the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is really, truly, and substantially the Body and Blood together with the Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and that there takes place what the Church calls transubstantiation, that is, the change of all the substance of the bread into the Body and all the substance of the wine into the Blood. I confess also that in receiving under either of these species one receives Jesus Christ, whole and entire.

I firmly hold that Purgatory exists and that the souls detained there can be helped by the prayers of the faithful. Likewise I hold that the saints, who reign with Jesus Christ, should be venerated and invoked, that they offer prayers to God for us, and that their relics are to be venerated.

I profess firmly that the images of Jesus Christ and of the Mother of God, ever Virgin, as well as of all the saints, should be given due honor and veneration. I also affirm that Jesus Christ left to the Church the faculty to grant indulgences and that their use is most salutary to the Christian people. I recognize the Holy, Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church as the mother and teacher of all the Churches and I promise and swear true obedience to the Roman Pontiff, successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and Vicar of Jesus Christ.

Besides I accept, without hesitation, and profess all that has been handed down, defined, and declared by the Sacred Canons and by the General Councils, especially by the Sacred Council of Trent and by the (First) Vatican General Council *****, and in a special manner concerning the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff. At the same time I condemn and reprove all that the Church has condemned and reproved. This same Catholic faith, outside of which nobody can be saved, which I now freely profess and to which I truly adhere, the same I promise and swear to maintain and profess, with the help of God, entire, inviolate, and with firm constancy until the last breath of life; and I shall strive, as far as possible, that this same faith shall be held, taught, and publicly professed by all those who depend on me and by those of whom I shall have charge. So help me God and these Holy Gospels.

*** and the Second.**

 

[Luvtosew]

Well it seems to me like they are doing a much better job now, maybe with the help of parents and well the internet and message boards than say 40-60 years ago. Most younger people hear seem to know much more than some of us older cradle Catholics, at least what I’ve been noticing, so thats good.

 

[domandcarols]

Well it seems to me like they are doing a much better job now, maybe with the help of parents and well the internet and message boards than say 40-60 years ago. Most younger people hear seem to know much more than some of us older cradle Catholics, at least what I’ve been noticing, so thats good.

Was that sarcasm?

 

[pgepps]

The “old” Profession of Faith sums it all up:

PROFESSION OF FAITH

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; on the third day he arose again; he ascended into heaven, he sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence forth he shall come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy Catholic Church, the Communion of the Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

---

I admit and embrace most firmly the apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and all the other constitutions and prescriptions of the Church.

I admit the sacred Scriptures according to the sense which has been held and is still held by Holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge the true sense and interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures, and I shall never accept or interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.

I profess that the Sacraments of the New Law are, truly and precisely, seven in number, instituted for the salvation of mankind, though all are not necessary for each individual: Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. I profess that all confer grace and that of these Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders cannot be repeated without sacrilege.

I also accept and admit the Ritual of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of all the above mentioned Sacraments.

I accept and hold, in each and every part, all that has been defined and declared by the Sacred Council of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification. I profess that in the Mass is offered to God a true, real and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead; that in the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is really, truly, and substantially the Body and Blood together with the Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and that there takes place what the Church calls transubstantiation, that is, the change of all the substance of the bread into the Body and all the substance of the wine into the Blood. I confess also that in receiving under either of these species one receives Jesus Christ, whole and entire.

I firmly hold that Purgatory exists and that the souls detained there can be helped by the prayers of the faithful. Likewise I hold that the saints, who reign with Jesus Christ, should be venerated and invoked, that they offer prayers to God for us, and that their relics are to be venerated.

I profess firmly that the images of Jesus Christ and of the Mother of God, ever Virgin, as well as of all the saints, should be given due honor and veneration. I also affirm that Jesus Christ left to the Church the faculty to grant indulgences and that their use is most salutary to the Christian people. I recognize the Holy, Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church as the mother and teacher of all the Churches and I promise and swear true obedience to the Roman Pontiff, successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and Vicar of Jesus Christ.

Besides I accept, without hesitation, and profess all that has been handed down, defined, and declared by the Sacred Canons and by the General Councils, especially by the Sacred Council of Trent and by the (First) Vatican General Council *****, and in a special manner concerning the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff. At the same time I condemn and reprove all that the Church has condemned and reproved. This same Catholic faith, outside of which nobody can be saved, which I now freely profess and to which I truly adhere, the same I promise and swear to maintain and profess, with the help of God, entire, inviolate, and with firm constancy until the last breath of life; and I shall strive, as far as possible, that this same faith shall be held, taught, and publicly professed by all those who depend on me and by those of whom I shall have charge. So help me God and these Holy Gospels.

*** and the Second.**

Could you point me toward useful source/history materials on this Profession? I am familiar with everything in it, but can’t recall having seen this form (which is unsurprising, as a relatively new Catholic).

 

[pgepps]

I was considered “sufficiently catechized” to proceed with RCIA starting in January (after making initial inquiries in early December), rather than the May-August inquiry period leading to the more formal catechesis in that parish. In my case, I think it was a combination of long Christian & Biblical experience (among other things I was a professor at an evangelical Bible college at the time), preparation before inquiry (when I came to him I had already been visiting at Mass, praying before the Eucharist, and had read the Compendium through while enumerating my objections and difficulties, all of which I had seen the Holy Spirit resolving when He was ready for me), and urgent spiritual need that led him to the conclusion that I was “sufficiently catechized” to proceed with the preparation for Reconciliation, Confirmation, and First Communion that Easter, rather than being asked to wait a year.

 

[MissRose73]

I would say we should never stop learning about and understanding our faith as long as we live. I wish that more places would offer more formation chances for adults such as Bible Study, Living The Eucharist, etc - I go to my mother’s parish for some of them due to the time frame works best for me.

 

[Luvtosew]

Was that sarcasm?

Absolutely not and I’m sorry you took it that way, I meant every word. Actually I was giving a for the RCC, parents, and young people. My goodness, why so touchy.

 

[Gorgias]

Absolutely not and I’m sorry you took it that way, I meant every word. Actually I was giving a for the RCC, parents, and young people. My goodness, why so touchy.

I would have to agree … catechesis in the 70s and 80s was pretty, well, “interesting”. that’s what got us in the current situation in the first place…

 

[Marchmain1987]

Could you point me toward useful source/history materials on this Profession? I am familiar with everything in it, but can’t recall having seen this form (which is unsurprising, as a relatively new Catholic).

I found it searching for the exact profession I will make Holy Saturday.

Much shorter and simpler!

I stumbled on this version from the 1940s. I believe one of the Psalms was also said after this. I saved it into a word doc.

Just Google a section of it and you can find it.

 

[pgepps]

I found it searching for the exact profession I will make Holy Saturday.

Much shorter and simpler!

I stumbled on this version from the 1940s. I believe one of the Psalms was also said after this. I saved it into a word doc.

Just Google a section of it and you can find it.

silly me. Of course we did that. I plead “got married since then!” for my lapse of memory. . and I’ll join the prayers for you the rest of the way Home, friend!

 

[TrueLight]

Let’s see what others add

That one knows enough about his or her faith to not tell a Protestant that Catholics pray to Mary, not Jesus.

Yes, a taxi driver told me that’s what a Catholic told him and I had to clear things ups for him.

 

[ljsedivy]

I would say we should never stop learning about and understanding our faith as long as we live. I wish that more places would offer more formation chances for adults such as Bible Study, Living The Eucharist, etc - I go to my mother’s parish for some of them due to the time frame works best for me.

I thought I read somewhere that we actually have the OBLIGATION to continue to learn our faith all the days of our lives. Does anyone know if that is correct?

THANX!

 

[MissRose73]

I thought I read somewhere that we actually have the OBLIGATION to continue to learn our faith all the days of our lives. Does anyone know if that is correct?

THANX!

I believe that is the right thing to do to read and study when we can about our faith. Even my mother, a few of my aunts, and grandmother among others in my family who still practice their faith, take time each day to read some scripture & reflect on it and/or read something related to the Catholic faith too. I do my best to read, study and reflect not only by reading books but going online to this place to discuss & share also.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

This thread reminds me a lot of something I read on the National Catholic Register (which is owned by EWTN) earlier this month. Here’s the part of the article I’m thinking of:
National Catholic Register:

 Likewise, when it comes to the Internet and social media, [professor and screenwriter Barbara] Nicolosi believes too many Catholics see and use it as a tool for catechesis rather than evangelization.

“It’s lots of inside baseball,” she said. “If you’re already in the program, it’s good stuff. But most people aren’t in the program. Right now 90 percent of what we do is geared toward catechesis and 10 percent to evangelization. It needs to be the other way around.”

I just thought I’d post this here. In a thread about being “sufficiently catechized” posted in the Evangelization forum (which isn’t as active as it should be methinks).

Anyways, I agree with the people that said we will keep learning about our faith as long as we’re alive. It’s continual.

The point I want to make is that if we want to teach/ preach/ evangelize in whatever way we think of, we shouldn’t be scared of not being catechized well enough. In the words of my deacon he always says, “I was scared to become a Deacon, even after years of classes I was scared that someone would ask me something and I wouldn’t know the answer. That I wouldn’t know enough. But, then I realized that I would never know enough. No one knows everything. I realized it was something that I was going to have to trust God for. That hopefully the Holy Spirit would give me the words… or I could just help them in whatever way I could and if that wasn’t good enough, I could always get back to them on it”

The point is, we’re all going to be learning for the rest of our lives. But, here we’re all part of a Catholic forum. We all presumably go to Mass regularly and participate in our parishes and are active Catholics. We’re all more than qualified to share at least something about the Catholic faith to other people.

So, while not being well catechized was a major problem. I think all the Catholics still interested in becoming well catechized have been able to do so recently (through the internet, more orthodox priests, etc.). Now we need to slowly shift towards more evangelism. Because catechesis isn’t going to get a lot of lapsed Catholics back in the pews. It’s going to take a NEW EVANGELISM.

[Sorry if that turned out to be a small sermon lol I really felt the need to tell that to someone. So why not to y’all?]

 

[arkwright]

I’m not sure any average person is ever sufficiently catchecized. Speaking only for myself, I am continuously learning and growing in my faith and I expect and hope to continue to do so until the moment of my death.

You speak for me as well .

 

[jmcrae]

I’m not sure any average person is ever sufficiently catchecized. Speaking only for myself, I am continuously learning and growing in my faith and I expect and hope to continue to do so until the moment of my death.

I think there is a distinction between being “sufficiently catechized” for a particular purpose (First Holy Communion at the age of seven, for example) and being “perfectly catechized,” which I would agree is the project of an entire lifetime, with much review and repetition involved.

We should continue to learn as much as we can - but we cannot wait for a child to become perfectly catechized before giving him his First Holy Communion - he needs to know, “This is not ordinary bread; it’s actually Jesus,” and he needs to understand that the Mass is God’s great gift to him that he should partake of at least every Sunday of his life. He should probably also know how to say his prayers, and how to participate with full attention at Mass. He might also become familiar with some Bible stories, especially the story of the Last Supper.

But he isn’t going to know the hidden symbolism of the Book of Revelation concerning the Mass, and nor is he going to be able to define “Transubstantiation” in any meaningful way - and that’s okay. He is “sufficiently catechized” when he meets the first criteria. He can perfect his understanding as time goes on - and maybe when he is a young man, he can study philosophy and discern for the priesthood.

 

[AthenaC]

I think there is a distinction between being “sufficiently catechized” for a particular purpose (First Holy Communion at the age of seven, for example) and being “perfectly catechized,” which I would agree is the project of an entire lifetime, with much review and repetition involved.

What is not “sufficient” is for a Catholic to truncate his learning at the level needed to receive the Sacraments of First Communion and Confirmation.

These two quotes sum up what I think as well.

However, I think the important question is more broad than that. My catechesis growing up was very thorough and very technical, but it was empty. It was delivered in an environment devoid of charity. It was like giving a plant tons and tons and tons of water and no sun, and then wondering why the plant doesn’t grow / has no will to live. Sadly, my experience seems to be far from abnormal.

Kids can learn ABOUT the Faith all day long (and no doubt that is important), but what they really need is for their parents and role models to exemplify what it means to live the Faith with the type of charity and passion that encompasses their entire being.

THAT is the meaning of being “sufficiently catechized,” when you understand the soul of Catholicism.