What does it mean to "Believe in Jesus"?

[Karen107]

Hi Steve,

Yes, this is basically what I am saying, to a point. There is a turning point at the discovery of unconditional love. When a person commits to love completely, without reservation, forgiving his or herself, others, and whatever the powers that be (God), then yes, they no longer “need” to have the requirements in order to behave; the person excludes no one, there is no longer an excluding criteria.

At that same turning point, a person learns and then knows, with no doubt, that there is nothing that would exclude him/herself from God’s love and wholehearted, open-armed embrace in this world or beyond. We get to know God by following the commandments to love and serve, but when we do love and serve, we come to see God in a different way.

For if we hold anything against anyone, we do not have that sense of security about God’s love for us. The God that says “you will only go to heaven ‘if’”, and the “if” is a condition of love, then the “if” comes to enslave us, we never know whether we have met the criteria or not. As long as there is any condition then there is an insecurity, and the insecurity is enslaving. Since the majority of people are not even aware of all the grudges they hold, i.e. the grudges are socially acceptable, even part of our culture, many (most?) end up enslaved, inadvertently, by their own uncertainty of God’s embrace.

What I am saying is that there is a place for all of it. Enslavement itself becomes the impetus for further growth, when that time comes. In the mean time, for a person who loves others conditionally, the insecurity of conditional love of the projected Father can drive a person to repent, behave, serve, etc., which will ultimately lead to the “turning point” I referred to in the beginning.

Shoot, that was hardly an “encapsulation”. Another way of putting it is that after the “turning point” (where love, rather than fear motivate) the “requirements” stand as more of a cause-and-effect rather than as a God who is saying, “If you don’t do this, you are not acceptable to me.”

BTW: great analogy, and thanks for the additional eye - for - an eye comments.

Here’s something to think about. There are many out there who believe they will go to heaven just because God loves them and really don’t change or alter their lives in any way. So they stop and ask why should I have to do that? and really don’t know the person of Jesus… that could be a teaching moment you know? To know Him is to love Him… A person can’t love what they really don’t know so it’s up to us to teach them and that’s the point of having ‘belief in Jesus’ in my opinion is to being committed disciples of Christ. Someone who has a desire to know Jesus and learn more about Him through prayer and learning and know that no matter what they do, God will be able to forgive them and show them His mercy and love. And many search for God having been disappointed by what’s happened in their lives and will be open to hearing more. Our Faith journey is for our whole lifetime and we learn more about God as we grow.

 

[spedteacherita]

Here’s something to think about. There are many out there who believe they will go to heaven just because God loves them and really don’t change or alter their lives in any way. So they stop and ask why should I have to do that? and really don’t know the person of Jesus… that could be a teaching moment you know? To know Him is to love Him… A person can’t love what they really don’t know so it’s up to us to teach them and that’s the point of having ‘belief in Jesus’ in my opinion is to being committed disciples of Christ. Someone who has a desire to know Jesus and learn more about Him through prayer and learning and know that no matter what they do, God will be able to forgive them and show them His mercy and love. And many search for God having been disappointed by what’s happened in their lives and will be open to hearing more. Our Faith journey is for our whole lifetime and we learn more about God as we grow.

I agree, Karen! Those that don’t try to experience Jesus beyond their “I know God loves me” belief really don’t know what they are missing out on. My mother “was saved” by watching a Billy Graham crusade back around when I was born and she became involved in the local church where she was baptized. My father was jealous of the attention she was giving to the church and used the excuse that mom was becoming involved with the preacher. It almost caused them to divorce so mom decided that she would not go to church without my dad which meant for the almost 50 years they were married they probably didn’t go to church more than 30 times.

I think, though, my mom’s faith was stronger despite the fact that she could not share it among others at church. She had a couple of sisters-in-law with whom she could discuss spiritual issues as well as my dad’s mother. That seed of faith in my mother has grown considerably over the years without the ability to have it fed and watered within a good group of Christians.

I relate this in order to share that it’s the knowledge of God’s love that has carried my mom throughout these years and the fulfillment of this is 5 of her 7 children becoming very dedicated to living a life in Christ and doing it within a church fellowship. They (we) live our lives always seeking Christ in everything we do regardless that we don’t have the same faith traditions.

I thank God always for blessing my mom so much.

Oh, and btw, my dad though baptized as a child became a dedicated man of God about 6 months or so before he passed away…

God bless all,

Rita

 

[OneSheep]

See we see it differently. We feel Gods love in the mass and get recharged there. You keep thinking of Gods commands as requirements, and they are, but it is those requirements that pull us into Gods love. Okay so think of this. If no one had rules which governed their lives, their lives my allow all sort of other things of the world to enter into it which may interfere with their relationship with God. For example, if I didn’t take time from my busy day to prayer, my day might go by in chaos and at the end of the day I might look back to see that I never took time to be with God which would have been better for me and quite possibly for others I have encountered throughout the day. So that discipline of taking time for prayer helps me to make my day better… And it does take discipline to make a person a better person which frees them from the bondage of sin. So although it seems rigid, that discipline of spending an hour a day is actually better for me than just living my life with no discipline but some might say that hour is enslavement if they felt they did it only if they had to do it. Think of Jesus scolding the disciples for sleeping for one hour when they should have been standing guard.

Matthew 26:40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter.

I know the things God tells me to do will make me better because I believe in the wisdom of God. … Now here’s the point of receiving the Eucharist. When we receive the body and blood of Christ, it fills us up with the Spirit of Christ quite literally because we are being nourished with Him. Now if I didn’t take the body and precious blood of our Lord like Jesus tells us to, I wouldn’t be nourished as well and I might become sick not being nourished by My Lord and My God. Now considering that people who are daily mass goers take the body and precious blood of Our Lord are filling their cup up with God goodness, it makes sense that these people also do more for Our Lord having been ‘fueled up’ regularly. And it was you who mentioned the fueling part. We don’t want to be like anyone else. We want to exceed in the expectations of what it means to be a disciple for Christ and Jesus shows us how… 1 Corinthians 12:31 When we thirst of Our Lord we are full of His goodness until it brims over onto others… God in His infinite wisdom shows us the way to be and that is by living by the word of the Lord, which means taking and drinking the body and blood of Our Lord. It’s all about being trusting and obedient to God who has the wisdom to know what is good for us, so if we stay close to Jesus He will stay close to us and be our protector. So we do need the requirements, even if it seems like they are burdensome, like taking time for prayer or brushing our teeth, because God knows best.

Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Hi Karen,

Well, everyone “sees it” a little differently, but I agree with everything you state here, and I compliment your summary.

Here’s something to think about. There are many out there who believe they will go to heaven just because God loves them and really don’t change or alter their lives in any way. So they stop and ask why should I have to do that? and really don’t know the person of Jesus… that could be a teaching moment you know? To know Him is to love Him… A person can’t love what they really don’t know so it’s up to us to teach them and that’s the point of having ‘belief in Jesus’ in my opinion is to being committed disciples of Christ. Someone who has a desire to know Jesus and learn more about Him through prayer and learning and know that no matter what they do, God will be able to forgive them and show them His mercy and love. And many search for God having been disappointed by what’s happened in their lives and will be open to hearing more. Our Faith journey is for our whole lifetime and we learn more about God as we grow.

You bring forward a very tricky topic, “what to say to the unevangelized”, for a person who does not make the effort to love, serve, and be part of the community, the person who is not a committed disciple of Christ, as you say, is not evangelized.

We could indeed tell them that God loves them even if they do not change their lives, for this is true. We could tell them that God waits in heaven with open arms, and this, I believe, is also true. We could tell them that God loves them unconditionally, which is true.

However, it takes a committed follower to actually know that God loves unconditionally, for me it took forgiving all enemies within and without to know this. I cannot separate this “knowing” from my commitment; it happened because of my commitment. So, if we ask someone who believes there is a God, and is of ordinary conscience, “If you do not want to be with God, in this community, serving others, and committing your life to Him, will He want to commit His life to you?”

If he says no, then you have him thinking about the fairness of the relationship, which appeals to his conscience. If he says yes, then he either is already committed to God, or he is in denial about such knowing, he says God loves him unconditionally but does not really understand it or believe it deep down.

And then, how does one address denial? We address denial by living the life of faith with joy and peace, and such a life attracts those enslaved by the trappings of the world.

These are just musings, it is an attempt at the methodology of evangelization.

Have a great Sunday!

 

[Karen107]

I hear you on that. I wonder how to do that because there are people out there who believe that they 're living a fine life without Religion or knowing Jesus and they will get mad at actually hearing the name Jesus saying things like “there are a lot of other people who suffered worst deaths than Jesus” … Don’t get it…Jesus knows there’s suffering, that’s why we can learn about ourselves knowing Jesus and how to be helped in our sufferings… Jesus wants those people who are hurting to stop hurting and the way to do that is through knowing God and being helped by God… God is just a prayer away… Medicine can only do so much, but the Lord of all Creation above helping us solve our problems? God can put people to peace no matter what they are dealing with, and we must be a witness to that…

We can show them love till the cows come home but still they don’t want to hear any words about God… They may be agnostic or even atheist, all I can say is that we at that point should pray for them so they might begin to know the truth and be part of it… All we can do is keep doing our best…

Faith is indeed a gift.To be in tune with our Creator and to understand that the 'things in life that are important cant be measured and that even in our sufferings we can find comfort in God… I will never take my faith in God for granted…You have a good Sunday as well!

 

[simpleas]

I hear you on that. I wonder how to do that because there are people out there who believe that they 're living a fine life without Religion or knowing Jesus and they will get mad at actually hearing the name Jesus saying things like “there are a lot of other people who suffered worst deaths than Jesus” … Don’t get it…Jesus knows there’s suffering, that’s why we can learn about ourselves knowing Jesus and how to be helped in our sufferings… Jesus wants those people who are hurting to stop hurting and the way to do that is through knowing God and being helped by God… God is just a prayer away… Medicine can only do so much, but the Lord of all Creation above helping us solve our problems? God can put people to peace no matter what they are dealing with, and we must be a witness to that…

We can show them love till the cows come home but still they don’t want to hear any words about God… They may be agnostic or even atheist, all I can say is that we at that point should pray for them so they might begin to know the truth and be part of it… All we can do is keep doing our best…

Faith is indeed a gift.To be in tune with our Creator and to understand that the 'things in life that are important cant be measured and that even in our sufferings we can find comfort in God… I will never take my faith in God for granted…You have a good Sunday as well!

I was thinking along the same lines, only I know people who do not attend church, any church, but believe there is a creator. They cope well in their sufferings, they need not pray, believe in the Catholic church etc. Maybe they are just positive people, they go through a process and deal with the situation the best way they can. We do to, but we will say it was with Gods grace etc.
So Gods grace must be given to all, as we know it is, but that doesn’t seem to mean that all people must be worshipping Jesus, or attending the Euchrist in order to be able to gain more? Grace to deal with their lives. That’s why many believe each religion has a path to God. But not sure about people who do not believe in any creator, God it seems still gives them all they need too.

 

[Karen107]

I was thinking along the same lines, only I know people who do not attend church, any church, but believe there is a creator. They cope well in their sufferings, they need not pray, believe in the Catholic church etc. Maybe they are just positive people, they go through a process and deal with the situation the best way they can. We do to, but we will say it was with Gods grace etc.
So Gods grace must be given to all, as we know it is, but that doesn’t seem to mean that all people must be worshipping Jesus, or attending the Euchrist in order to be able to gain more? Grace to deal with their lives. That’s why many believe each religion has a path to God. But not sure about people who do not believe in any creator, God it seems still gives them all they need too.

Sure we are all products of God who gives life to us… Every child is a gift of God and we should treat them as such,…so each and every one of us have that goodness of God in them to start, (even if they are only good to their friends). But none of us are perfect so we need Jesus who is the perfector of our faith… Truthfully, I don’t think it’s the practicing Christians who have a problem with understanding there is a right and wrong way to live and strive for that or that what we do doesn’t affect others, these are the truths of our faith… What are the truths found in agnosticism or atheism? Well it depends on who you ask? God started the Church to hold to the truths, and those who aren’t part of it, often deny truth rather rely on relativism which is the downfall of our culture… I don’t think God had that in mind when he gave us a conscious so He could speak to us in order to guide our behavior… these truths are being lost with the increase of people who don’t have faith…

The question then is how can people be brought to the truth of Jesus Christ and get to heaven if they don’t grow in their faith and become part of Gods life while they are on earth… Blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin, and that means those who deny Jesus Christ and all of us have 'free will to accept or deny Jesus Christ… We’re taught that there must be dying of our lives in order gain life in Christ so they are missing that piece of the puzzle which will bring them to heaven…

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Sure we are all products of God who gives life to us… Every child is a gift of God and we should treat them as such,…so each and every one of us have that goodness of God in them to start, (even if they are only good to their friends). But none of us are perfect so we need Jesus who is the perfector of our faith… Truthfully, I don’t think it’s the practicing Christians who have a problem with understanding there is a right and wrong way to live and strive for that or that what we do doesn’t affect others, these are the truths of our faith… What are the truths found in agnosticism or atheism? Well it depends on who you ask? God started the Church to hold to the truths, and those who aren’t part of it, often deny truth rather rely on relativism which is the downfall of our culture… I don’t think God had that in mind…

The question then is how can people be brought to the truth of Jesus Christ and get to heaven if they don’t grow in their faith and become part of Gods life while they are on earth… Blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin, and that means those who deny Jesus Christ and all of us have 'free will to accept or deny Jesus Christ… We’re taught that there must be dying of our lives in order gain life in Christ so they are missing that piece of the puzzle which will bring them to heaven…

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Nice post Karen.

 

[Karen107]

woops I added to it… Gotta run…

 

[simpleas]

Sure we are all products of God who gives life to us… Every child is a gift of God and we should treat them as such,…so each and every one of us have that goodness of God in them to start, (even if they are only good to their friends). But none of us are perfect so we need Jesus who is the perfector of our faith… Truthfully, I don’t think it’s the practicing Christians who have a problem with understanding there is a right and wrong way to live and strive for that or that what we do doesn’t affect others, these are the truths of our faith… What are the truths found in agnosticism or atheism? Well it depends on who you ask? God started the Church to hold to the truths, and those who aren’t part of it, often deny truth rather rely on relativism which is the downfall of our culture… I don’t think God had that in mind when he gave us a conscious so He could speak to us in order to guide our behavior… these truths are being lost with the increase of people who don’t have faith…

The question then is how can people be brought to the truth of Jesus Christ and get to heaven if they don’t grow in their faith and become part of Gods life while they are on earth… Blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin, and that means those who deny Jesus Christ and all of us have 'free will to accept or deny Jesus Christ… We’re taught that there must be dying of our lives in order gain life in Christ so they are missing that piece of the puzzle which will bring them to heaven…

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

See I don’t know about that, even the Church says not only Christians can enter heaven. Lots of people die to self, but not within our Church or any Christian Church.
I think maybe people who do not believe in God still got some of their morals from Christianity along the way, but I would think also that even before Jesus, and the Jewish beliefs there were some moral people around the rest of the world.

Becoming like little children may mean alot of things, obedience to elders, trustful, accepting everyone regardless of who they are etc etc.