What does it mean to say that something is immoral?

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Peter_Plato said:
The Catholic position is morally defensible on all of these issues. You are disagreeing with the Church’s position. That, in itself, does not show that the Church’s position is immoral, but merely that you think it is. The moral justification that the Church provides on every point above, far exceeds anything you have supplied (at least on these forums) for your position.

Basically, the above points amount to no more than an argument that a thief might make in condemning laws against stealing as infringements of his right to take things as he wills. Sure, the thief might cite these laws as offensive to his view of liberty, that he cannot do as he wills because of those laws, but that does not make the laws immoral just because the thief has a rather idiosyncratic view of property that favors his freedom above the rights of others. Every point you made, likewise, favors a particular group and labels the more universal and just view of the Church as immoral because you feel the Church doesn’t side with a particular vested group who stand to profit in some way from a loosened moral position.
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Each of your points could make a thread on its own and I would be quite willing to take apart each one separately, but, I suspect, it would not change your mind on any of them because no matter how reasonable the position of the Church is, you have strong vested motives for retaining your view. Motives will always override reason where emotion supreme power and reason holds purely a titular position.
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The church is not being reasonable and I can see how they defend their position , but it is not morally defensible. Bigotry, homophobia or misogyny is not a moral defence
 
aprilfloyd said:
The church is not being reasonable and I can see how they defend their position , but it is not morally defensible. Bigotry, homophobia or misogyny is not a moral defence
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It is not clear that the Church’s position entails any of those. Anyone can make unfounded claims based on their own biases.
 
aprilfloyd said:
They are not unfounded, it’s catholic teaching
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Your judgemental claims about Church teaching are unfounded. I understand what Catholic teaching is founded upon, it is your evaluation of those teachings that remains unfounded.

Start a thread on any one of them, I’d be happy to take you up on any of your negative representations of Church teaching. In fact, a number of those claims have been dealt with in the past. Your insistence that your findings are true does not make them any more true just because you are relentless in pushing them. You have convinced yourself, but that is a far cry from convincing a rational person.

A drug dealer can make claims about the “positive” benefits of what s/he offers. Certainly, a drug’s capacity to bring about euphoria in a user might be a selling point for some, and even hook them into habitual use, but not over the long run to anyone with a brain that functions at a minimal level of intelligence.
 
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