What does John mean that God "purchased" us? Revelation 5:9

[ethereality]

NABRE Revelation 5:
verse 9:

They sang a new hymn:
“Worthy are you to receive the scroll
and to break open its seals,
for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God
those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation.

What does John mean that we were “purchased”?

According to the Catholic Church, this cannot be literal, because it implies someone other than God owned us, and that God chose to satisfy the demands of this agent to obtain something He previously did not own. It also suggests that God was required to purchase us if He wanted us.

The DRB says “redeemed”, which has the same meaning:

gain or regain possession of (something) in exchange for payment

Origin: late Middle English (in the sense ‘buy back’): from Old French redimer or Latin redimere, from re(d)- ‘back’ + emere ‘buy.’

The problem, if it’s not apparent to you: The Church tells us God is supreme, that there is no other agent to rival Him, and that He already owns all of creation. There is no Grim Reaper controlling hell that God must satisfy in order to bring us into His kingdom; Original Sin did not make us property of the Grim Reaper, no longer property of God. So why did John write this? What does it mean?

 

[fred_conty]

I’ll give you what I think it means.

“purchased” in this case dosen’t mean the actual purchase from someone but rather it refers to the way Christ brought about our justification and consequently, saving us from eternal death.

Christ is referred to as the lamb of God. This referred to the spotless and unblemshed lamb used in the Passover meal. The lamb’s blood was sprinkled on the top and sides of the door to spare the first born in that house from death.

So in that sense, Christ purchased us by his death, blood sprinkled on the doorpost of the cross, to give us life. Meaning we belong to him because of his payment of suffering.

Love is measured by how much one is willing to give of themselves for the one they love. God being Love, he gave all of himself.

 

[Stephen_says]

I’m not a theologian, but when I read this I am drawn to the part that says

“every tribe and tongue, people and nation.”

Because at first, only the Israelites were to be saved, but then Jesus opened salvation up to the gentiles as well. That may have something to do with it?

And maybe he didn’t buy us from someone else, but perhaps it means more like he bought us from ourselves…maybe that doesn’t even make sense. I’m just thinking out loud here.

 

[fhansen]

I’ll give you what I think it means.

“purchased” in this case dosen’t mean the actual purchase from someone but rather it refers to the way Christ brought about our justification and consequently, saving us from eternal death.

Christ is referred to as the lamb of God. This referred to the spotless and unblemshed lamb used in the Passover meal. The lamb’s blood was sprinkled on the top and sides of the door to spare the first born in that house from death.

So in that sense, Christ purchased us by his death, blood sprinkled on the doorpost of the cross, to give us life. Meaning we belong to him because of his payment of suffering.

Love is measured by how much one is willing to give of themselves for the one they love. God being Love, he gave all of himself.

I like this. And in a sense it’s really ourselves who need to be won over, from an orientation towards death to one towards life. *We *allow the captive to be set free, as we accept and cooperate with grace, as we say “yes” to the Savior even as we’re not owed salvation to begin with.

 

[jcrichton]

NABRE Revelation 5: What does John mean that we were “purchased”?

According to the Catholic Church, this cannot be literal, because it implies someone other than God owned us, and that God chose to satisfy the demands of this agent to obtain something He previously did not own. It also suggests that God was required to purchase us if He wanted us.

The DRB says “redeemed”, which has the same meaning:
The problem, if it’s not apparent to you: The Church tells us God is supreme, that there is no other agent to rival Him, and that He already owns all of creation. There is no Grim Reaper controlling hell that God must satisfy in order to bring us into His kingdom; Original Sin did not make us property of the Grim Reaper, no longer property of God. So why did John write this? What does it mean?

Hi!

…I think that you are being passage-centric.

Check out these passages:

30 I will not now speak many things with you. For the prince of this world cometh, and in me he hath not any thing. 31 But that the world may know, that I love the Father: and as the Father hath given me commandment, so do I: Arise, let us go hence. (St. John 14:30-31)

11 And of judgment: because the prince of this world is already judged. (St. John 16:11)

Is Jesus intimating that God is not Omnipotent or that Satan owns Creation?

Jesus is speaking of a different economy: sin.

Lucifer, the once Prince of the angels, through his attempts against the Divinity became the father of lies and of death.

It is from this spiritual apocalypse that God, through Christ’s Blood, has purchased man.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[fisherman_carl]

It means ransomed.

"For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

“Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
struck down by God, and afflicted.
¶ But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.*” (Isaiah 53:3-7)

 

[adamhovey1988]

I would suggest reading the entire Book of Revelation instead of taking verses in isolation.

 

[PJM]

NABRE Revelation 5:
Quote:
Originally Posted by verse 9
They sang a new hymn:
“Worthy are you to receive the scroll
and to break open its seals,
for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God
those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation.
What does John mean that we were “purchased”? End Quote

According to the Catholic Church, this cannot be literal, because it implies someone other than God owned us, and that God chose to satisfy the demands of this agent to obtain something He previously did not own. It also suggests that God was required to purchase us if He wanted us

The DRB says “redeemed”, which has the same meaning:
Quote:
gain or regain possession of (something) in exchange for payment

Origin: late Middle English (in the sense ‘buy back’): from Old French redimer or Latin redimere, from re(d)- ‘back’ + emere ‘buy.’
The problem, if it’s not apparent to you: The Church tells us God is supreme, that there is no other agent to rival Him, and that He already owns all of creation. There is no Grim Reaper controlling hell that God must satisfy in order to bring us into His kingdom; Original Sin did not make us property of the Grim Reaper, no longer property of God. So why did John write this? What does it mean?

Your correct; it is not literal.

What this metaphorical teaching means is that Christ, through His life, death and resurrection has made POSSIBLE conditionally, humanities Redemption; which BTW is not the same as man’s Salvation."
.
Adams and Eve’s [co-opted] Original Sin caused God in Divine Justice to lock heavens gate even before it was used.

By Christ Passion, Death and Resurrection; heaven once more began a real possibility.

So the teaching here is that Christ Sacrifice made heaven a reward for all who would hear, accept and obey His Teachings.

Original sin was such a Grievous attack on the Sovereignty of the Triune Godhead that ONLY a redeeming act [a suitable payback] by GOD [Jesus] was sufficient to offset it.

God Bless you

PJM

 

[fhansen]

It means ransomed.

"For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

“Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
struck down by God, and afflicted.
¶ But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.*” (Isaiah 53:3-7)

It’s a good question tho. Who was the ransom owed/paid to?

 

[BobCatholic]

“it implies someone other than God owned us”

And what’s wrong with that?

Before we were purchased (redeemed) by God, we were “owned” by the other guy - you know, the guy with the red suit and pitchfork.

 

[ericc]

NABRE Revelation 5: What does John mean that we were “purchased”?

According to the Catholic Church, this cannot be literal, because it implies someone other than God owned us, and that God chose to satisfy the demands of this agent to obtain something He previously did not own. It also suggests that God was required to purchase us if He wanted us.

The DRB says “redeemed”, which has the same meaning:
The problem, if it’s not apparent to you: The Church tells us God is supreme, that there is no other agent to rival Him, and that He already owns all of creation. There is no Grim Reaper controlling hell that God must satisfy in order to bring us into His kingdom; Original Sin did not make us property of the Grim Reaper, no longer property of God. So why did John write this? What does it mean?

The Greek word “ēgorasas” means to purchase or redeem. However, the context doesn’t mean that there was a person aka the devil that God paid the price/ransom to. Earlier salvation/redemption theories allude that the devil was paid off but support for that stance has waned.

There is nothing in the OT that describes Man being in the bondage of Satan due to the Fall of Adam/Eve or that a ransom must be given to Satan. Satan hardly appears in the OT except for a few cases such as Job and Zechariah. And Satan was NOT depicted as the master of Man. In Job 2:3, God said Job is his servant (and not Satan) and in Job 2:6 God gave Satan the permission to test Job. It hardly gives Satan the credence as the master of Man and that he need to be bought off.

However, in the NT, we are said to be in the bondage of sin and death/decay. And Christ delivered us from both of that.

John 8:34 “everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin”
Hebrews 2:14-15

Dying you destroy our death, Rising you restored our life. Christ defeated death and sin and lived and taught us how it is to be done. He suffered and died to show us how to love God and to show how much God love us.

 

[jcrichton]

It’s a good question tho. Who was the ransom owed/paid to?

Hi!

…we have been ransomed from death:

23 For the wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23a)

26 And the enemy death shall be destroyed last: For he hath put all things under his feet. (1 Corinthians 15:26)

13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works. 14 And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death. (Apocalypse 20:13-14)

Maran atha!

Angel