What does poverty of spirit mean?

[catharina]

I have often wondered why it’s automatically presumed that the poor among us are somehow holier? I wonder if there is a difference between poverty back in Jesus’ time, and today. Today, there are many who are in poverty, and it often leads them to sin. (stealing, prostitution, drug dealing and taking, etc)

I know wealthy people who are very pious…my dad was one of them. He was very self sacrificing…although, he made a very good living. My husband and I do well…and we are not clinging to our possessions…so, I’m somewhat confused why Jesus said that the poor would have an easier time, basically, to salvation. I truly believe that the poor back then, must be different than much of our poor today. I say much, not most.

First, the poor are the poor.
We’re told “the poor - you will have always with you.”

It’s possible that when people are too concerned about their wealth, then it’s more difficult for thoughts of “need for God” can come into their awareness. At the same time, Mother Treresa was criticized for NOT becoming politically demanding, for not insisting on an equality of wealth/goods among men. Her response: ‘Without their resources, how could the wealthier ever afford to be so generous to the poor?’

So sorry that’s a paraphrase, not the actual quote - but her point was clear. It’s given to all to recognize all people are created by one God. All people are equally deserving of food, clothing, shelter. All people first and foremost have a right to life - and that’s a life that will sustain them. We’re told “Bear ye one another’s burden and thus fulfill the law of Christ.” That’s an obligation for all of us, rich or poor. We accept it in humility or we reject it in pride.

 

[whatevergirl]

No, I understand all that…maybe I need to word my question differently. I’ll come back later.

I just think that wealth doesn’t automatically mean that someone is consumed with it, because they have it. That’s more of what I’m trying to say.

 

[allan_frederick]

dear Whatever Girl,

let me share why i think Jesus said what he said about the poor.

I believe that you will agree that if you have nothing it is very difficult to attach yourself to anything. In a sense by being poor you have the ability (this does not mean that everyone that is poor has this attitutde) to be detached and as a result to value the things that are more important in life such as God and family.

I have spent most of my life living and working in Latin America countries and I have had the opportunity to work in Mission setting with Quechua Indians of the Andes. I have experienced the reality of what Christ said about the poor and Ignorant. They have a higher sensibility to the spiritual. I have been to outposts up in the Andean mountains and seen this incredible love and sensibility that these people have for the spiritual and incredible insights to God. In some cases these people have not seen a Priest in years and no one had preached or given them CCD classes. It was a incredible experience how these people loved God. And how much they love when a Priest shows up and celebrates the Mass and Eucharist with them. The solemnity with which they worship is undescribable. You have to see it and experience this to fully understand this incredible phenominom.

I agree with you that it is possible and I have also seen very wealthy people that love and serve God. But i also beleive that if you asked them in all honesty they themselves would clearly understand that it is very hard to live detached from wealth and material goods. That is why Jesus did not say that could not or would not be saved he just said that it would very difficult, risk and temptation when you have these things.

These are my 2C. I hope that I may make it a little more clear. It is without a doubt a difficult subject. THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES.

GOD bLESS YOU ALL.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thank you for your post, allan…it makes perfect sense. I think I realize this, having read a lot about Mother Teresa’s life story, in living and working with the poorest of the poor.

I don’t know if worldly things are the end of the story though. I lost my parents as a child, and while I have grown up with ‘material things’ around me, nothing could replace them. I am grateful for all I have, and thus nothing is taken for granted. Every blessing, material and spiritual, is from God. I have lived every day since being a child, that this life is temporary…our possessions are all temporary. (although, I have had prior fixations on money, etc in the past) I am not a believer of the profitability preachers, who are living in mansions, off of tithes from their audiences. There’s something that really strikes me as so wrong about all of that. But, we all experience poverty in different ways. I grew up without parents, while another might have grown up with parents, and had no material wealth. I think we all experience ‘being poor’ in different ways…Each cross is different.

I think you have shed some light on this for me, though. Thanks allan.

 

[EasterJoy]

My 2c worth would be that if everyone renounced material goods COMPLETELY then everything would be a mess.

I’m not a marxist but i think he got it right when he said that there had to be an initial concentration of wealth in order that industries can be developed and create more wealth that could then be shared.

If you go to very poor areas on earth (thankfully many less these days) then it is obvious that it is because of 1 of 2 things

1. there is wealth but it is held tightly by the few
2. there is no wealth at all

I think as far as wealth goes it’s important to have it, but to make it accessible to everyone.

I think Jesus was warning about our attachment to wealth more than wealth itself.

There are encyclicals from Rerum Novarum to John Paul II’s encyclical Centesimus Annus that cover the Church’s teaching on social and economic justice and the spiritual and moral aspects of physical wealth and the fruits of labor:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_01051991_centesimus-annus_en.html

These are well worth reading. The Church makes it clear that Christ does not demand physical poverty or total community of physical wealth of all Christians. Holding private property is not sinful. Using material goods to make objects whose beauty exceeds the strict demands of function is not sinful. It is possible to justly engage in capitalist economics, within the boundaries of the Gospel. (This is in contrast to Marxism and other ideologies that have a denial of God, a denial of the basic dignity of the human individual, or the denial of the dignity of human labor as fundamental tenets.)

In my mind, poverty of spirit does mean that all you have, from possessions to your very self, rightly remain entirely at the disposal of God. There isn’t a charitable portion due to God or our neighbor as some sort of a tax, after which we can do as we please. We have to account for how we use all of our blessings.

Also, poverty of spirit is the continual recognition that we are dependent on God and others to have our needs met. It is the opposite of a sense of entitlement. We are totally in debt. Poverty of spirit is not the denial that we have needs. It is the recognition that we do have needs, and the willingness to put the needs of all on the same footing as our own. It is also the willingness to differentiate between our needs and those wants which are not in keeping with the will of God.

 

[allan_frederick]

Dear Whatever Girl,

The grace to live surrounded by material things and still live detached shows that God has been very gracious and loves you very much. Never take it for granted!!!

All of us in one way or the other are challeged by God with things and situations which make us stretch out of our save zone. The Cross is the greatest grace of all especially if we have the wisdom to accept and offer our suffering to Jesus. This is the greatest grace of all “to die with Jesus on his Cross” by emptying ourselves completely because of our Love for God. This is true poverty. To allow Jesus to mould us on his time and in his way, not ours.

If we allow this than we will be like St. Jane of Chantal (yesterdays Saint). We will be Martyrs of our faith in Life. Jesus will use this to save other souls if we only allow him to do so.

God Bless you always.

 

[allan_frederick]

Dear Easter Joy,

Well said.

 

[whatevergirl]

There are encyclicals from Rerum Novarum to John Paul II’s encyclical Centesimus Annus that cover the Church’s teaching on social and economic justice and the spiritual and moral aspects of physical wealth and the fruits of labor:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_01051991_centesimus-annus_en.html

These are well worth reading. The Church makes it clear that Christ does not demand physical poverty or total community of physical wealth of all Christians. Holding private property is not sinful. Using material goods to make objects whose beauty exceeds the strict demands of function is not sinful. It is possible to justly engage in capitalist economics, within the boundaries of the Gospel. (This is in contrast to Marxism and other ideologies that have a denial of God, a denial of the basic dignity of the human individual, or the denial of the dignity of human labor as fundamental tenets.)

In my mind, poverty of spirit does mean that all you have, from possessions to your very self, rightly remain entirely at the disposal of God. There isn’t a charitable portion due to God or our neighbor as some sort of a tax, after which we can do as we please. We have to account for how we use all of our blessings.

Also, poverty of spirit is the continual recognition that we are dependent on God and others to have our needs met. It is the opposite of a sense of entitlement. We are totally in debt. Poverty of spirit is not the denial that we have needs. It is the recognition that we do have needs, and the willingness to put the needs of all on the same footing as our own. It is also the willingness to differentiate between our needs and those wants which are not in keeping with the will of God.

thank you for the link…and for chiming in. I really like especially your last paragraph–agreed.

 

[KingAlfred]

I have often wondered why it’s automatically presumed that the poor among us are somehow holier? I wonder if there is a difference between poverty back in Jesus’ time, and today. Today, there are many who are in poverty, and it often leads them to sin. (stealing, prostitution, drug dealing and taking, etc)

I know wealthy people who are very pious…my dad was one of them. He was very self sacrificing…although, he made a very good living. My husband and I do well…and we are not clinging to our possessions…so, I’m somewhat confused why Jesus said that the poor would have an easier time, basically, to salvation. I truly believe that the poor back then, must be different than much of our poor today. I say much, not most.

To me, it’s not limited to economic poverty, but the state of being disadvantaged, down-trodden, marginalized, and put at within society at large. It refers to people who reject Truth, and suffer the consequences, they who are indeed poor in spirit. I often listen to non-believers lament their myriad of problems, and want so much to simply remind them of their unrecognized, even rejected, yet dire need for GOD. I want to come right out and say, "You view your life as a ship-wreck because you don’t believe in Jesus Christ. YOU NEED GOD." But…I can’t bring myself to tell anyone that. Maybe it’s because I lived such a raucous life myself in my youth, or because I believe conversion is a deeply private matter. Dunno.

 

[whatevergirl]

To me, it’s not limited to economic poverty, but the state of being disadvantaged, down-trodden, marginalized, and put at within society at large. It refers to people who reject Truth, and suffer the consequences, they who are indeed poor in spirit. I often listen to non-believers lament their myriad of problems, and want so much to simply remind them of their unrecognized, even rejected, yet dire need for GOD. I want to come right out and say, "You view your life as a ship-wreck because you don’t believe in Jesus Christ. YOU NEED GOD." But…I can’t bring myself to tell anyone that. Maybe it’s because I lived such a raucous life myself in my youth, or because I believe conversion is a deeply private matter. Dunno.

Even if you’ve lived a ‘raucous’ life in your younger years…you have repented (I would imagine) and you can still live as an example of faith, now for those to see. Right?

Look at St Paul…he really was living a raucous existence…and his life turned around from an encounter with Christ. He is now a saint! I think I learn better sometimes, from people who have made mistakes and have cleaned up their lives because of a commitment to Christ, than those who have never sinned. (well, except for Mary and Jesus Himself!)

 

[NeedImprovement]

… I want to come right out and say, “You view your life as a ship-wreck because you don’t believe in Jesus Christ.* YOU NEED GOD*.” But…I can’t bring myself to tell anyone that. Maybe it’s because I lived such a raucous life myself in my youth, or because I believe conversion is a deeply private matter. Dunno.

The best leaders lead by example - not by word.

I have to paraphrase this but JReducation can probably tell us the exact wording. I heard it from Father Andrew Apostoli. “St. Francis used to tell the brethren…preach at all times, and if you must, use words.”

I’m in the raucous youth (and extended youth) category too. One saint (can’t recall who) put it this way: There is no saint without a past and there is no sinner without a future.

 

[NeedImprovement]

As for poverty of spirit (BTW @JReducation - very nice post # 17, thanks):

---

I’ve always liked the example of Dismah (sometimes spelled “Dismas”) - the good thief.

If we take into consideration the second part of the beatitude from Matthew 5:3 :
" Blest are the poor in spirit…for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Dismah, being the first canonized saint, so to speak, gained heaven…so **he had to have been poor in spirit **if we take Jesus’ words to be truth.

On the surface, Dismah had pretty well nothing physically or spiritually by the time he was crucified. There he was hanging on a cross beside Christ, dying a slow agonizing death too, without even any clothing.It was a death sentence which,confirmed by his own words, he deserved. One would surmise: poor in every possible way at that point…no merits for any good works or if there were they were far outweighed by his sins…a wretched criminal in the eyes of men, getting what he deserved. When he was gone, who would remember him?

One thing he had was humility. He was able to admit his wrongdoing - own up to his mistakes (as detestable as they might have been). So the truth was in him at that point.

St John Vianney said, “Humility is to the other virtues what the chain is to the rosary beads…without the chain the beads scatter everywhere.”

Who knows for sure what it was that caused Jesus to love him so much from the Cross ? It was more than simply being crucified alongside Him. Here’s one similarity: Jesus accepted and carried his Cross and all that it would entail; Dismah accepted his crucifixion as just punishment.

While acknowledging Christ as Lord of a Kingdom,Dismah didn’t dare presume to ask to be a part of that kingdom himself…he only asked to be remembered. That speaks of a profound humility. For Jesus to forgive and to save him and promise him heaven that day, Dismah would also have to have had perfect contrition - even perfect compunction.

Poor in spirit…rich in Heaven ?

Nobody syays it quite like Bishop Fulton Sheen, [from his book “The Seven Last Words”] :

"At the very moment when the testimony of a thief was being given, Our Blessed Lord was winning a greater victory than any life can win, and was exerting a greater energy than that which harnesses waterfalls ; He was losing His life and saving a soul. And on that day when Herod and his whole court could not make Him speak, nor all the power of Jerusalem make Him step down from the Cross, nor the unjust accusations of a courtroom force Him to break silence, nor a mob crying, ‘He saved others; Himself He cannot save’, bring from His burning lips a retort, He turns to a quivering life beside Him,speaks,and saves a thief: ’ This day you will be with Me in Paradise.’ No one before was ever the object of such a promise, not even Moses nor John, not even Magdalen nor Mary!

It was the thief’s last prayer,perhaps also his first. He knocked once, sought once, asked once, dared everything and found everything. When our spirits stand with John on Patmos, we can see the white-stoled army in Heaven riding after the conquering Christ; when we stand with Luke on Calvary, we see the one who rode first in that procession. Christ ,who was poor, died rich. His hands were nailed to a Cross and yet He unlocked the keys of Paradise and won a soul. His escort into Heaven was a thief. May we not say that the thief died a thief, for he stole Paradise ?

Oh, what greater assurance is there in all the world of the Mercy of God ? Lost sheep, prodigal sons, broken Magdalens, penitent Peters, forgiven thieves! Such is the rosary of Divine forgiveness.

God is more anxious to save us than we are to save ourselves…"

 

[Tina_in_Ashburn]

“Poverty of Spirit” can be succinctly described as DETACHMENT from created things.

The next step after detachment from created things is love of people.

The Church teaches that in order to attain plenary indulgences, we can have no attachment to sin. [how hard is that? I can’t even drive the speed limit and I LIKE it, an example.]

In other words, we must strive to love God above all things and be ready to walk away from our possessions, those we love, and things we are attached to doing, because “thou shalt have no other gods before me”.

Studying up on and meditating on detachment is worthwhile. Many saints found that this was the secret to holiness and union with God. The theory is that we suffer in Purgatory until we are cleansed of all attachments.

To clarify, this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t love others or not take care of our possessions and responsibilities. It means we must understand their true place, as secondary to God. This is how the wealthy can get to heaven! The secret is not being attached to anything you own, understand that all comes from God, belongs to God and to be able to walk away from it all if required.

 

[abucs]

Thanks for the links and thoughts everyone. A really good thread.

 

[elts1956]

That particular verse is better understood when taken in context:

Mark 10: 21-27

NAB Footnote:

The rich man chose to leave Jesus so he could keep his possessions. That’s key in understanding this particular passage.

Wonderful question and here’s a wonderful answer.
It’s straight from the Catechism and beautifully explained:

[*](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2544a.htm’) III. POVERTY OF HEART
[2544](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2544.htm’) Jesus enjoins his disciples to prefer him to everything and everyone, and bids them “renounce all that [they have]” for his sake and that of the Gospel.335 Shortly before his passion he gave them the example of the poor widow of Jerusalem who, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.336 The precept of detachment from riches is obligatory for entrance into the Kingdom of heaven.
[2545](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2545.htm’) All Christ’s faithful are to "direct their affections rightly, lest they be hindered in their pursuit of perfect charity by the use of worldly things and by an adherence to riches which is contrary to the spirit of evangelical poverty."337
[2546](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2546.htm’) "Blessed are the poor in spirit."338 The Beatitudes reveal an order of happiness and grace, of beauty and peace. Jesus celebrates the joy of the poor, to whom the Kingdom already belongs:339
The Word speaks of voluntary humility as “poverty in spirit”; the Apostle gives an example of God’s poverty when he says: "For your sakes he became poor."340 [2547](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2547.htm’) The Lord grieves over the rich, because they find their consolation in the abundance of goods.341 "Let the proud seek and love earthly kingdoms, but blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven."342 Abandonment to the providence of the Father in heaven frees us from anxiety about tomorrow.343 Trust in God is a preparation for the blessedness of the poor. They shall see God.

64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:74AdE_qwTPkJ:www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a0.htm+catechism+of+the+catholic+church,+poverty+of+spirit&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

“Somewhere” I have heard that when Jesus talked of the eye of the needle, this was the name of an actual gate going into Jerusalem which was very small having been built only for people to pass through not beasts of burden such as a camel. Anyone heard of that?

 

[KingAlfred]

The best leaders lead by example - not by word.

I have to paraphrase this but JReducation can probably tell us the exact wording. I heard it from Father Andrew Apostoli. “St. Francis used to tell the brethren…preach at all times, and if you must, use words.”

I’m in the raucous youth (and extended youth) category too. One saint (can’t recall who) put it this way: There is no saint without a past and there is no sinner without a future.

Agreed…but it can get very complicated. For example, if you are surrounded by willfull non-believers who deliberately attack Christianity as often as possible, especially in public, your Christian ‘example’ will only make them dislike you more, and assault with greater virulence. This can be problematic in certain settings, such as professional and family, particularly when your own children are unfortunately caught up in the drama. My son, for example, is going through his rebellious years in college and has abandoned his former belief in God and Catholic upbringing. He idolizes my brother, who, along with his wife (both professional educators), is a militant atheist and dedicated enemy of Christianity. Truthfully, he and his wife actually despise Christianity. *Their influence on my son worries me to no end. *My own ‘example’ is not enough to curb that mendacious influence. There are times when Evil must be forthrightly combatted, with every available resource.

 

[abucs]

Kingalfred,

i don’t know if any of the following links will help your son.

When i drifted away from the church i saw the world in terms of being simply ‘materialist’ and the study of quantim physics got me to doubt my new materialistic beliefs.

bottomlayer.com/bottom/argument/Argument4.html

bottomlayer.com/
The “Video Presentation of Double Slit Experiments” set of 6 short videos is interesting although the first 3 and a half videos are quite slow until the scientific results are examined.

anandavala.info/TASTMOTNOR/Ross%20Rhodes.html

I also have a link somewhere on the discussion of possible scientific ways to see the world which comes out in favour of theism. I’ll post this on Monday.

If it doesn’t help - no harm done. Hope everything works out.

 

[tr1954]

To me, poverty of spirit means a “yearning for God”. It is a spiritual disposition, and it involves an emptiness, or a void of spiritual fulfillment. It is entirely possible that a very rich man has a greater yearning for God, than a poor man, therefore it has very little to do with material wealth. I think many on this forum who advocate the biblical verses about the rich man, are missing the point…Lazarus was a wealthy man, yet he was poor in spirit, as he was “longing, or yearning” for the Word of God just as much as the apostles were of Jesus! The same goes for Nicodemus, who also was a wealthy man. By being poor in spirit, one cannot find his spiritual balance, for there is a void in his heart , and that no wealth of this world can fulfill. Many rich persons are yearning for God, just as much…or even more than a poor person, and those rich people are very generous in giving for charity…yet poor in spiritual fulfilment…

 

[KingAlfred]

Kingalfred,

i don’t know if any of the following links will help your son.

When i drifted away from the church i saw the world in terms of being simply ‘materialist’ and the study of quantim physics got me to doubt my new materialistic beliefs.

bottomlayer.com/bottom/argument/Argument4.html

bottomlayer.com/
The “Video Presentation of Double Slit Experiments” set of 6 short videos is interesting although the first 3 and a half videos are quite slow until the scientific results are examined.

anandavala.info/TASTMOTNOR/Ross%20Rhodes.html

I also have a link somewhere on the discussion of possible scientific ways to see the world which comes out in favour of theism. I’ll post this on Monday.

If it doesn’t help - no harm done. Hope everything works out.

Thanks. I appreciate it. Right now, however, he’s convinced there’s no God and that religion is bunk.

 

[Tina_in_Ashburn]

Agreed…but it can get very complicated. For example, if you are surrounded by willfull non-believers who deliberately attack Christianity as often as possible, especially in public, your Christian ‘example’ will only make them dislike you more, and assault with greater virulence. This can be problematic in certain settings, such as professional and family, particularly when your own children are unfortunately caught up in the drama. My son, for example, is going through his rebellious years in college and has abandoned his former belief in God and Catholic upbringing. He idolizes my brother, who, along with his wife (both professional educators), is a militant atheist and dedicated enemy of Christianity. Truthfully, he and his wife actually despise Christianity. *Their influence on my son worries me to no end. *My own ‘example’ is not enough to curb that mendacious influence. There are times when Evil must be forthrightly combatted, with every available resource.

KingAlfred:
Sorry to hear this. Maybe the influence will get much worse. Its possible that your son, once he tries the non-religion tact, will see how hopeless it is. You may have to watch painfully your son for a few years go through a bad spell trying this out. Hopefully the good influence you had in his youth will make better sense to him after he goes through this.

Nagging is rarely effective [not saying you do this but just an observation]. Sometimes kids will do rotten things just for the “payoff” of knowing they get us riled. I learned the hard way not to respond emotionally but hide my emotions behind statements like, ‘really, then what happened?’, 'what makes you say that?" etc. A poker face is very disarming! And then I learn more about what’s really up.

Also, the eventual wife and kids can have a wonderful effect on one’s views of God. Many parents have returned to the Faith when they have kids to raise.

Prayer, fasting and penance won’t hurt.

I have a similar situation with my grown son - not as severe as yours but frightening in the same way. Throughout the day I pray for him and offer up little things. I ask God for humility both for him and myself. I too am frightened for his soul and discouraged.