What does "PROLIFE FOR MEN" mean?

[James_Tyler]

Men do contribute to the “culture of abortion” when they participate in activities that lead to a situation where a woman feels she must “pull the trigger”. A smooth talking man comes along, sweet talks an innocent young woman, lies to her, gets her in bed, and is gone in the morning. She is pregnant. Looks at her options. Decides to get an abortion. The man put her in that situation, in this example. He didn’t “pull the trigger” but i don’t think justice can ignore his activities. Is he a murderer? No. He is a fornicator. He killed no one. A fornicator helps create an environment where abortion seems like a valid alternative to single parent motherhood.

Ok, that’s what seems to make sense to me but…

If he is guilty of murder then everyone who sins is guilty of murder. Because lies, fornication, adultery, drunkenness, jealousy, theft, false worship, hatred, covetousness, and the list goes on; these all contribute to various murders and they all contribute to one another.

Jesus Christ said that if someone offends in one point of the law then they have offended in all points. (paraphrased) So Francisca, after reading your posts here and in the other thread, “The War on Women”, and at first finding your logic disagreeable, I think I now see what part of the truth you are trying to uncover.

Yes, any man who sins against God, is guilty of everything, including abortion because all of mankind’s sinfulness adds up and contributes to all the evil taking place. If I speak an unkind word to a shopkeeper and then the angry shopkeeper goes home and slaps his child, we are both guilty because the shopkeeper doesn’t live in a vacuum. I guess that’s the logic from God.

 

[francisca]

Men do contribute to the “culture of abortion” when they participate in activities that lead to a situation where a woman feels she must “pull the trigger”. A smooth talking man comes along, sweet talks an innocent young woman, lies to her, gets her in bed, and is gone in the morning. She is pregnant. Looks at her options. Decides to get an abortion. The man put her in that situation, in this example. He didn’t “pull the trigger” but i don’t think justice can ignore his activities.

The scenario you present above is quite is similar to how King David lure Uriah into trusting him.
King David fell in love with Bathseba, Uriah’s wife. So he talked to Uriah nicely and sent him a present, ate and drank with him, and then sent Uriah to the most fierce battle and instructed the other men to withdraw so Uriah was killed in battle.

Did King David pull the trigger? No. Joab placed Uriah where the valiant men were. The valiant men killed him.

2Samuel 11
7. When Uriah came to him, David asked concerning the welfare of Joab…
8. …and a present from the king was sent out after him.
13. Now David called him, and he ate and drank before him, and he made him drunk…
14. Now in the morning David wrote a letter to Joab…
15. …the letter, saying, “Place Uriah in the front line of the fiercest battle and withdraw from him, so that he may be struck down and die.”
16. …Joab kept watch on the city, that he put Uriah at the place where he knew there were valiant men.
17. …and Uriah the Hittite also died.

Is he a murderer? No. He is a fornicator. He killed no one. A fornicator helps create an environment where abortion seems like a valid alternative to single parent motherhood.

Your remark above fits just nicely in King David story.
King David is a fornicator, he created an environment for the murder seems like an alternative in the battle field. Joab (the fetus mother) was in the battle field with Uriah (the fetus). King David was not present in the battle. So the valiant men (the clinic doctors) killed Uriah.

Is King David the murderer? Yes, he is.

Ok, that’s what seems to make sense to me but…

If he is guilty of murder then everyone who sins is guilty of murder. Because lies, fornication, adultery, drunkenness, jealousy, theft, false worship, hatred, covetousness, and the list goes on; these all contribute to various murders and they all contribute to one another.

Jesus Christ said that if someone offends in one point of the law then they have offended in all points. (paraphrased) So Francisca, after reading your posts here and in the other thread, “The War on Women”, and at first finding your logic disagreeable, I think I now see what part of the truth you are trying to uncover.

Yes, any man who sins against God, is guilty of everything, including abortion because all of mankind’s sinfulness adds up and contributes to all the evil taking place. If I speak an unkind word to a shopkeeper and then the angry shopkeeper goes home and slaps his child, we are both guilty because the shopkeeper doesn’t live in a vacuum. I guess that’s the logic from God.

Your argument is circling around making blurry picture, as if the action is not clear, so the sin is not clear.
The picture is not that blurry, really

He had sex with her, and left her pregnant.
The fetus had a father. He didn’t care or even felt relieved that she decided to abort it.

Example child neglect case:
can a father argue that he’s not the one neglecting the child, should the mom does?

 

[Jelrak_TB]

You have some great points…

 

[James_Tyler]

The scenario you present above is quite is similar to how King David lure Uriah into trusting him.
King David fell in love with Bathseba, Uriah’s wife. So he talked to Uriah nicely and sent him a present, ate and drank with him, and then sent Uriah to the most fierce battle and instructed the other men to withdraw so Uriah was killed in battle.

Did King David pull the trigger? No. Joab placed Uriah where the valiant men were. The valiant men killed him.

2Samuel 11
7. When Uriah came to him, David asked concerning the welfare of Joab…
8. …and a present from the king was sent out after him.
13. Now David called him, and he ate and drank before him, and he made him drunk…
14. Now in the morning David wrote a letter to Joab…
15. …the letter, saying, “Place Uriah in the front line of the fiercest battle and withdraw from him, so that he may be struck down and die.”
16. …Joab kept watch on the city, that he put Uriah at the place where he knew there were valiant men.
17. …and Uriah the Hittite also died.

Your remark above fits just nicely in King David story.
King David is a fornicator, he created an environment for the murder seems like an alternative in the battle field. Joab (the fetus mother) was in the battle field with Uriah (the fetus). King David was not present in the battle. So the valiant men (the clinic doctors) killed Uriah.

Is King David the murderer? Yes, he is.

Your argument is circling around making blurry picture, as if the action is not clear, so the sin is not clear.
The picture is not that blurry, really

He had sex with her, and left her pregnant.
The fetus had a father. He didn’t care or even felt relieved that she decided to abort it.

Example child neglect case:
can a father argue that he’s not the one neglecting the child, should the mom does?

Yes, I agree with you.

Jesus said that the devil “was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).

Here we have it directly from the word of God. Satan speaks the lies. People pull the trigger. Satan is a murderer according to God. Divine logic supports you.

 

[francisca]

Yes, I agree with you.

You agree to what?

Your bottom post wasn’t my argument.
Please elaborate what’s the relation with the topic

Jesus said that the devil “was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).

Here we have it directly from the word of God. Satan speaks the lies. People pull the trigger. Satan is a murderer according to God. Divine logic supports you.

 

[James_Tyler]

You agree to what?

Your bottom post wasn’t my argument.
Please elaborate what’s the relation with the topic

Men are also responsible in part for the abortion when they engage in activities that lead to it. In my previous post, i cite where Jesus calls Satan a murderer. Yet we know that Satan in a spirit creature. He himself does not pull the trigger as far as I know, he just tells lies. Yet this leads to murder. So appears to me that Jesus’s words support your point of view that even though a man may not be present at the abortion, if he fornicates and abandons the situation that he is also responsible in part for the abortion, even if it is the woman that ultimately decides.

 

[francisca]

Men are also responsible in part for the abortion when they engage in activities that lead to it. In my previous post, i cite where Jesus calls Satan a murderer. Yet we know that Satan in a spirit creature. He himself does not pull the trigger as far as I know, he just tells lies. Yet this leads to murder. So appears to me that Jesus’s words support your point of view that even though a man may not be present at the abortion, if he fornicates and abandons the situation that he is also responsible in part for the abortion, even if it is the woman that ultimately decides.

Well according to God, King David was not only “partially” responsible for the murder.
He was the murderer. Not Joab, not the valiant men who actually pulled the trigger.

Our bible takes patriarchy position.

1. Man responsible for himself
2. Man has to take responsibility for their woman.
3. Woman plays submissive role

Example:
Please read Numbers 30 about Man making a vow versus Woman making a vow.

Numbers 30
"Every vow and every binding oath to humble herself, her husband may confirm it or her husband may annul it.
14.* "But if her husband indeed says nothing to her from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or all her obligations which are on her; he has confirmed them, because he said nothing to her on the day he heard them.
15.* “But if he indeed annuls them after he has heard them, then he shall bear her guilt.”

Numbers 30
3.* "Also if a woman makes a vow to the LORD, and binds herself by an obligation in her father’s house in her youth,
4.* and her father hears her vow and her obligation by which she has bound herself, and her father says nothing to her, then all her vows shall stand and every obligation by which she has bound herself shall stand.
5.* "But if her father should forbid her on the day he hears of it, none of her vows or her obligations by which she has bound herself shall stand; and the LORD will forgive her because her father had forbidden her.

Numbers 30
2.* "If a man makes a vow to the LORD, or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.

If the above 3 patriarchy principles being applied for abortion case, I doubt that God will blame the woman only. He will first put the blame on the man, and ask him to die on her place.

 

[James_Tyler]

Well according to God, King David was not only “partially” responsible for the murder.
He was the murderer. Not Joab, not the valiant men who actually pulled the trigger.

Our bible takes patriarchy position.

1. Man responsible for himself
2. Man has to take responsibility for their woman.
3. Woman plays submissive role

Example:
Please read Numbers 30 about Man making a vow versus Woman making a vow.

Numbers 30
"Every vow and every binding oath to humble herself, her husband may confirm it or her husband may annul it.
14.* "But if her husband indeed says nothing to her from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or all her obligations which are on her; he has confirmed them, because he said nothing to her on the day he heard them.
15.* “But if he indeed annuls them after he has heard them, then he shall bear her guilt.”

Numbers 30
3.* "Also if a woman makes a vow to the LORD, and binds herself by an obligation in her father’s house in her youth,
4.* and her father hears her vow and her obligation by which she has bound herself, and her father says nothing to her, then all her vows shall stand and every obligation by which she has bound herself shall stand.
5.* "But if her father should forbid her on the day he hears of it, none of her vows or her obligations by which she has bound herself shall stand; and the LORD will forgive her because her father had forbidden her.

Numbers 30
2.* "If a man makes a vow to the LORD, or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.

If the above 3 patriarchy principles being applied for abortion case, I doubt that God will blame the woman only. He will first put the blame on the man, and ask him to die on her place.

I doubt woman who make that choice will get to walk away by watching her man burn and “winking her eye”.

 

[ichabode]

From Original Poster, “As a catholic, we have to believe this”

No as a person we believe this. What does “ProLife for Men mean”? Well to put in the most loving delicate politically correct way, without hurting anyone’s feeling and to be measured in every way possible let me do my best to explain. It means that as a guy I do not believe I have a right, nor a woman has a right to kill children. Yes, that makes me crazy I get it, but baby’s are off limits and should be protected against those who would harm and kill them.

I did not catch it, but if you are a guy posting this remember YOU SHOULD AND WILL GIVE YOUR LIFE TO SAVE WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST. Cowards should be shot who would “save themselves first”. Don’t worry God will raise you and your courage will be rewarded in the after life. Plus you have the benefit of looking yourself in the mirror. After all if there are pearly gates I am sure St. Peter will have a mirror for you to look in.

We don’t kill children,so we can have a closer parking spot to a store in 16 years. I did not come from an overly religious family I think I have always understood that if you cannot take a stand for babies what could you possibly take a stand on. Do not let God spew you out of his mouth.

P.S. if a coworker thinks it is cool to talk in the office about being pro abortion then man up and put them in their place. Defend life it is pretty easy, and then when you go before the judgement seat of God there will be millions upon millions of character witnesses standing beside you telling Jesus this one is ours. He stood up for us as many sought to slaughter us. They will then with their little hands take yours and escort you into Heaven, and Jesus would not be more proud of His good and faithful servant.

Hope it helps be a leader.
Eric Roach

 

[francisca]

I doubt woman who make that choice will get to walk away by watching her man burn and “winking her eye”.

Wow.
Why does it even goes to your mind that woman will wink their eyes to her man while watching him burned?

My previous post was to tell you that it has been a constant teaching that the Bible has taken patriarchy position, and therefore in God’s eyes man will also be found guilty of abortion in the place of his woman.

Here, let me explain further:

The context of biblical patriarchy is “not in order to overpower/ control woman”, rather “to suffer and die for her!”

 

[francisca]

From Original Poster, “As a catholic, we have to believe this”

No as a person we believe this. What does “ProLife for Men mean”? Well to put in the most loving delicate politically correct way, without hurting anyone’s feeling and to be measured in every way possible let me do my best to explain. It means that as a guy I do not believe I have a right, nor a woman has a right to kill children. Yes, that makes me crazy I get it, but baby’s are off limits and should be protected against those who would harm and kill them.

I did not catch it, but if you are a guy posting this remember YOU SHOULD AND WILL GIVE YOUR LIFE TO SAVE WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST. Cowards should be shot who would “save themselves first”. Don’t worry God will raise you and your courage will be rewarded in the after life. Plus you have the benefit of looking yourself in the mirror. After all if there are pearly gates I am sure St. Peter will have a mirror for you to look in.

We don’t kill children,so we can have a closer parking spot to a store in 16 years. I did not come from an overly religious family I think I have always understood that if you cannot take a stand for babies what could you possibly take a stand on. Do not let God spew you out of his mouth.

P.S. if a coworker thinks it is cool to talk in the office about being pro abortion then man up and put them in their place. Defend life it is pretty easy, and then when you go before the judgement seat of God there will be millions upon millions of character witnesses standing beside you telling Jesus this one is ours. He stood up for us as many sought to slaughter us. They will then with their little hands take yours and escort you into Heaven, and Jesus would not be more proud of His good and faithful servant.

Hope it helps be a leader.
Eric Roach

Thankyou so much for aswering the question “what pro-life for men means?”.

Finally there is one man who give a straight answer