What does the Bible and Church say about tolerance?

[FaithBuild18]

I was minding my own business yesterday when my roommate’s mom knocks on my door to say hi and then proceeded to insult my social values and told me I have to be more tolerant. I spend most of my time in my room with the door shut. I have Catholic stickers on my door and a letter from my bishop taped to the door explaining the grave evils of the health care mandate, so that’s probably what set her off as I know she is vehemently opposed to Catholicism. It’s not that I haven’t heard all the garbage about tolerance before. Being on a college campus I am on the front lines of the cultural wars.

But what really upset me was how she tried to use the Bible to change my mind. I didn’t really know what to tell her in response. I can argue these topics fairly well with Catholics because I know Catholic social teaching and Church doctrine, but I have no idea what to say to mainstream non-religious Christians (if that even makes sense). So virtually in every circumstance I leave them alone. But this time she asserted herself in my face, so I really couldn’t just ignore it the way I normally do.

So my question is, what does the Bible say about tolerance? What does the Church teach about tolerance? I was under the impression that we are not to tolerate any evil, and not to cooperate with any evil. I know some passages by St. Paul that are to my liking, but not much else.

I try not to insult people who I don’t like. I don’t willingly hurt anyone. I don’t kill those with whom I disagree. If people need help I’d gladly help them. I am even friends with a muslim and I work with her all the time in my physiology class. I was under the impression that if the Church called for any sort of tolerance, THAT would be the right kind of tolerance. I refuse to turn a blind eye to sin, and I refuse to accept any evil as acceptable. If somebody wrongs me, I will tell them, and then I will lovingly forgive them if they are sorry.

I absolutely loathe the cultural interpretation of tolerance, in which we are to render everything innocuous and pretend that there is no evil on this earth (except for those who are intolerant apparently, as this kid’s mom told me I had evil in my eyes). For this reason, as soon as anyone mentions the word “tolerance,” I associate it with this cultural garbage. I don’t believe that people use the word “tolerance” nowadays to describe the genuine forgiveness and love that the word should actually mean.

 

[englishredrose]

What reason was she giving you that you not tolerant?

It may be nothing to do with your stickers. Simply the gossip what she may have just heard. ie what you may be like in classroom discussions etc…?

It might be that other students feel that you are too black and white about things in discussion and that you need to learn that others have a point of view too. No one is wrong for their opinion. But in overheated discussions we can often forget that and shout them down as such. But in reality, no one is wrong for their opinion. It may be badly phrased or presented but that is where we need to be tolerant.

The Law says so…
The Bible says so…

Both happen to agree with each other. But one person may be saying not so. You got to give them space to explore why they think not so. You may sound as though you so sure about stuff. It might be your manner rather than what the Bible says.

Otherwise take a deep breath, go for a walk and find a friend who you can share this experience with… Get out of your room for a bit, even if its raining. Is there a nearby park to stroll in and vent that frustration and clear the head. Chat to someone about it…

 

[buffalo]

I offer:

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.

 

[englishredrose]

Ps
Sounds like too that you are spending too long in your room. What societies and clubs are you in? Get to live a little life at college…

 

[FaithBuild18]

What reason was she giving you that you not tolerant?

It may be nothing to do with your stickers. Simply the gossip what she may have just heard. ie what you may be like in classroom discussions etc…?

It might be that other students feel that you are too black and white about things in discussion and that you need to learn that others have a point of view too. No one is wrong for their opinion. But in overheated discussions we can often forget that and shout them down as such. But in reality, no one is wrong for their opinion. It may be badly phrased or presented but that is where we need to be tolerant.

The Law says so…
The Bible says so…

Both happen to agree with each other. But one person may be saying not so. You got to give them space to explore why they think not so. You may sound as though you so sure about stuff. It might be your manner rather than what the Bible says.

Otherwise take a deep breath, go for a walk and find a friend who you can share this experience with… Get out of your room for a bit, even if its raining. Is there a nearby park to stroll in and vent that frustration and clear the head. Chat to someone about it…

Your post is plagued with assumptions and judgements. I am in no classes that involve class discussion. I am exclusively in science classes. Few people on campus even know what my name is. The rest of your post is out of place. This has absolutely nothing to do with me “learning that others have a point of view too.” What a condescending statement. I’m not a 5 year old child enrolled in a KinderCare class, I have developed Theory of Mind, as most do when they’re children.

 

[FaithBuild18]

Ps
Sounds like too that you are spending too long in your room. What societies and clubs are you in? Get to live a little life at college…

I will persist in ignoring such recommendations. I will never join the likes of the death cults, secular cults, socialist, communist, and feminist cults that rein supreme over this place. You are removed from the realities of this environment. My only safe havens are the Catholic Church near campus, my own room, my girlfriend’s room, and the lab in which I work.

I will refuse to the point of death to take part in the debaucherous and indulgent activities that people do for “fun” around here. I do not need to “live a little life,” my life is for God and nothing else. To me that is far grander than any petty “little life” one could waste while here.

Yours is the attitude from which I hide, the attitude dominant on campus which pushes me ever further from secular society and convinces me not just to lock my door, but to turn off the lights.

EDIT: after cooling off a little: To actually answer your question on what reason she would have? I don’t know for sure and I do not want to be haste in guessing. She knows I despise the parties that her son and friends host here in their drunken fervor, tricking their plethora of women to bed in a manner that degrades the dignity of the soul beyond all measure, and she knows I abhor abortion, which she feels is not just acceptable but a necessity if the child is mentally challenged (I had to listen to her rant about it the last time she came here). So maybe that has something to do with it. Don’t get me wrong though, her son and I have roomed together since freshman year. We’ve gotten along just fine. But I’ve told him I don’t like the parties, that I don’t like the drinking (never in a manner as angry as my posts here about it - I just let steam off here - though I don’t expect you to believe me on that). If I had to render a guess, it’s the fact that I am merely opposed to what she feels is acceptable. The most common scapegoat in collegiate society, when this happens, is to label the other as “intolerant.” And as time goes by, my response to people like her is just an increasing amount of isolation from these type of people.

 

[FaithBuild18]

I offer:

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.

Thank you, tremendously. This is brilliant.

 

[ACCT]

Satan tried to use the bible against Jesus. Those who follow Satan on this earth do the same thing. Jesus did not tolerate evil; neither should we. God said that because we were neither hot nor cold, He would spit us out of his mouth! I think that God is telling us to stand up on our hind legs and to take a stand. God will not only judge us by what we say, but by what we did not say.

We should not let this evil culture redefine our words for us. “Tolerance” is now as broad as a sewer.

When Jesus said that gates of hell would not prevail against the Church, I think that He was talking about the militant church on the offensive against evil. Mary says that we can do nothing against evil by ourselves. However, when we unite ourselves with Jesus, we will destroy evil.

Thirty years ago Mary said that a great battle was to unfold between her son and Satan. Today Mary says that Satan is ready to take over the world. Unite yourself to Jesus and Mary and you will help form Mary’s heel that will crush the head of Satan!

 

[Kaninchen]

He has told you, O man, what is good,
And what the LORD requires of you:
Only to do justice
And to love goodness.
And to walk modestly with your God;
Then will your name achieve wisdom.
Micah 6:8

 

[englishredrose]

I will persist in ignoring such recommendations. I will never join the likes of the death cults, secular cults, socialist, communist, and feminist cults that rein supreme over this place. You are removed from the realities of this environment. My only safe havens are the Catholic Church near campus, my own room, my girlfriend’s room, and the lab in which I work.

I will refuse to the point of death to take part in the debaucherous and indulgent activities that people do for “fun” around here. I do not need to “live a little life,” my life is for God and nothing else. To me that is far grander than any petty “little life” one could waste while here.

Yours is the attitude from which I hide, the attitude dominant on campus which pushes me ever further from secular society and convinces me not just to lock my door, but to turn off the lights.

EDIT: after cooling off a little: To actually answer your question on what reason she would have? I don’t know for sure and I do not want to be haste in guessing. She knows I despise the parties that her son and friends host here in their drunken fervor, tricking their plethora of women to bed in a manner that degrades the dignity of the soul beyond all measure, and she knows I abhor abortion, which she feels is not just acceptable but a necessity if the child is mentally challenged (I had to listen to her rant about it the last time she came here). So maybe that has something to do with it. Don’t get me wrong though, her son and I have roomed together since freshman year. We’ve gotten along just fine. But I’ve told him I don’t like the parties, that I don’t like the drinking (never in a manner as angry as my posts here about it - I just let steam off here - though I don’t expect you to believe me on that). If I had to render a guess, it’s the fact that I am merely opposed to what she feels is acceptable. The most common scapegoat in collegiate society, when this happens, is to label the other as “intolerant.” And as time goes by, my response to people like her is just an increasing amount of isolation from these type of people.

Sorry to have offended you and it sounds like we may have judged each other as wrongly as each other…so am sincerly sorry to offended you and that wasn’t my intention.

You don’t have to join a soceity for the purpose to get drunk though I will admitt drinking seems to be a habit of most societies etc. I didn’t mean it like that. In fact the beauty about college/university is that if there isn’t society you’re happy with, you could well start one up of what interests you and control it as such that way.

In other words then you can simply ignore the woman? and I will leave you to explore your own opening post. Rather than risk any futher upsetting you any more than I have done and I am sorry my words have upset you.

Sorry for upsetting you because that really wasn’t the intention.

 

[Castello]

Easier to give advice if you can provide some specifics.

What passage of scripture did she use to defend what immoral action?

This woman claims to be Christian and approves of her son bedding many women?

 

[kch86]

I will persist in ignoring such recommendations. I will never join the likes of the death cults, secular cults, socialist, communist, and feminist cults that rein supreme over this place. You are removed from the realities of this environment. …
I will refuse to the point of death to take part in the debaucherous and indulgent activities that people do for “fun” around here.

I finished uni about 5 years ago and I sympathise and understand the realities of that environment you speak of.

At the time, I was still transitioning away from atheism and had to an extent participated in the drunken debauchery for a short time, but the unspeakable and unmentionable horrors I saw shocked even my atheist mind into a subconscious rejection of my own secular morality. I think few of the posters on this forum can even imagine the horrific things that go on.

Before long, I too refused to have anything to do with it and I can express nothing but admiration for your passionate stand.

As for tolerance, it is nothing but a code word for today’s secular morality. Anything is permissible provided it doesn’t conflict with the desires of another.

 

[michelleds]

like someone else said, without her specific statements, it’s hard to advise a counter-argument. however, taking this as a more general discussion, I will say that I’ve seen liberals throw around the story of Jesus and the woman caught in the act of adultery frequently. Jesus says that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. when all of the accusers go away, Jesus says go and sin no more.

I’ve noticed that when someone throws that biblical passage at a debate, it is usually to erroneously support the idea that Jesus didn’t judge or that Jesus tolerated sin. However, he did judge…he says she should SIN no more. he doesn’t say, go be good or be better. he says don’t SIN anymore. He also did not tolerate sin, and that story does not prove otherwise.

That passage is about Jesus’ mercy, not tolerance. Those two concepts are easily conflated and confused by the worldling.

I offer for your consideration the following verses:

Philippians 4:18-19
1 Cor 1:18
Rom 11:22
Rom 12:9
1 Pet 3:8-9

and finally, 1 John 3:10 “In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.”

One last thing. you have a right to feel secure in your own home. if this woman literally barged in on you and verbally attacked you without preamble or invitation, then you certainly have every right to politely invite her to leave. Perhaps a simple, “Mrs. X, I appreciate that you feel strongly about these issues; I do as well. However, I’m [tired, studying, busy]. perhaps we can set a time and place to have this conversation later?”

 

[domandcarols]

I will persist in ignoring such recommendations. I will never join the likes of the death cults, secular cults, socialist, communist, and feminist cults that rein supreme over this place. You are removed from the realities of this environment. My only safe havens are the Catholic Church near campus, my own room, my girlfriend’s room, and the lab in which I work.

I will refuse to the point of death to take part in the debaucherous and indulgent activities that people do for “fun” around here. I do not need to “live a little life,” my life is for God and nothing else. To me that is far grander than any petty “little life” one could waste while here.

Yours is the attitude from which I hide, the attitude dominant on campus which pushes me ever further from secular society and convinces me not just to lock my door, but to turn off the lights.

I feel exactly like this. I didn’t know there were other people that feel exactly what I feel. I will be praying for you, God bless you.

 

[Abu]

FaithBuild18 #6
EDIT: after cooling off a little: To actually answer your question on what reason she would have? I don’t know for sure and I do not want to be haste in guessing. She knows I despise the parties that her son and friends host here in their drunken fervor, tricking their plethora of women to bed in a manner that degrades the dignity of the soul beyond all measure, and she knows I abhor abortion, which she feels is not just acceptable but a necessity if the child is mentally challenged (I had to listen to her rant about it the last time she came here). So maybe that has something to do with it. Don’t get me wrong though, her son and I have roomed together since freshman year. We’ve gotten along just fine. But I’ve told him I don’t like the parties, that I don’t like the drinking (never in a manner as angry as my posts here about it - I just let steam off here - though I don’t expect you to believe me on that). If I had to render a guess, it’s the fact that I am merely opposed to what she feels is acceptable. The most common scapegoat in collegiate society, when this happens, is to label the other as “intolerant.” And as time goes by, my response to people like her is just an increasing amount of isolation from these type of people.

This is very much like the situation that I found myself in, and against, in 1947-49 in a secular College elsewhere. And I was accused rather similarly.

The problem with broadmindedness is as Archbishop Fulton J Sheen has written: we “are suffering from tolerance: tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos.

“A person who can make up his or her mind in an orderly way, as a person might make up a bed, is called a bigot; but a person who cannot make up his or her mind, any more than one can make up for lost time, is called tolerant and broadminded.”
Bishop Fulton Sheen was not backward in coming forward:
“Religion has its principles, natural and revealed, which are more exacting in their logic than mathematics…the false notion of tolerance has obscured this fact from the eyes of many who are as intolerant about the smallest details of life as they are tolerant of their relations to God.

“Another evidence of the breakdown of reason that has produced this weird fungus of broad-mindedness is the passion for novelty, as opposed to the love of truth.” (Broad-Mindedness).

You may find the following advice from Jesus and His Apostles helpful re judging error versus truth:
Christ commanded us to:
“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).
“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

And St Paul, following the Master:
“Test everything: retain what is good.” (1Thess 5:21).
“The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15).

That is precisely why we judge actions, speech, writing against true teaching as to what is good and what is evil, and we know what is good and what is evil only by following the teaching of His Church – not by our opinions, desires, prejudices, feelings, wants – selfism.

Further:
“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1).

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

Jesus has commanded “Stop judging, that you may not be not judged.” (Mt 7:1; read 1-5). Thus we are commanded not to judge others regarding their motives, intentions, and guilt before God (a judgment reserved to God).

 

[FaithBuild18]

Thanks to everyone providing scriptural verses. I am highly appreciative.

Easier to give advice if you can provide some specifics.

What passage of scripture did she use to defend what immoral action?

This woman claims to be Christian and approves of her son bedding many women?

Yeah, I’m sorry, I don’t remember her exact words. She didn’t use a particular passage, she just said she’s in a group in her “church” that is reading the Bible in a year, and that tolerance is the central message of it (the Bible). As to your last question, it depends on the woman. She absolutely approves of the idea of him bedding many women, and practically reinforces it, but she’s highly critical of the women which he chooses to bed. Few people are good enough for her boy. Actually, I took that opportunity to tell her that she wasn’t very tolerant of his past girlfriends, a statement with which she agreed, but she simply said she was wrong to be intolerant of them. As a matter of fact, I remember last year one particular girl who she routinely referred to as “The B****.”

I finished uni about 5 years ago and I sympathise and understand the realities of that environment you speak of.

At the time, I was still transitioning away from atheism and had to an extent participated in the drunken debauchery for a short time, but the unspeakable and unmentionable horrors I saw shocked even my atheist mind into a subconscious rejection of my own secular morality. I think few of the posters on this forum can even imagine the horrific things that go on.

Before long, I too refused to have anything to do with it and I can express nothing but admiration for your passionate stand.

As for tolerance, it is nothing but a code word for today’s secular morality. Anything is permissible provided it doesn’t conflict with the desires of another.

I enjoy hearing these kind of stories. Truly you’ve found grace, God bless you.

I feel exactly like this. I didn’t know there were other people that feel exactly what I feel. I will be praying for you, God bless you.

And God bless you too. It’s good to know that we’re not alone. Stay strong and know that you’ll be in my thoughts and prayers. Never give in and you’ll never be alone.

 

[ACCT]

Moral Relativism

“Modern man has become passive in the face of evil. He has so long preached a doctrine of false tolerance; has so long believed that right and wrong were only differences in a point of view, that now when evil works itself out in practice he is paralyzed to do anything against it (Sheen).”

Morality (Western Bourgeois)

In the domain of morality, is it not an accepted principle of our Western bourgeois world that there is no absolute distinction between right and wrong rooted in the eternal order of God, but that they are relative and dependent entirely upon one’s point of view? Hence when the Western world wishes to decide what is right and wrong even in certain moral matters, it takes a poll – forgetful that the majority never makes a thing right….The first poll of public opinion taken in history of Christianity was on Pilate’s front porch, and it was wrong (Sheen).”

 

[wynnejj]

Seems to me that the story of the Babylonian Exile is all about misdirected “tolerance” values superseding the Jewish faith. Here is a Jewish nation faithful to Yahweh allowing itself to adopt the pagan ways of its neighbouring nations in a spirit of multiculturalism. The upshot, God allows a neighbouring nation to cart them off into slavery as punishment. Jeremiah ch.7 seems to me to reflect what is going on in today’s world.