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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
What is your point? How many mass murders, by knife, have we had in the US? How many by guns?
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ValPal
Guest
They may not have used weapons themselves, but they have others use weapons for them. The easiest example is that Popes have protection. The Pope doesn’t need to have a gun because he has people around him carrying guns.Did any of the great, modern-day saints use weapons? I can’t imagine Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta carrying a weapon for protection. Nor can I imagine priests, monks and hermits needing a gun to protect themselves! Bottom line is that we can live fruitful, religious lives without having to carry a weapon!
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ValPal
Guest
How many people died on September 11th? No guns involved there.What is your point? How many mass murders, by knife, have we had in the US? How many by guns?
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ValPal
Guest
Are you stating that if fines/imprisonment were stiffer, this would have deterred Mr. Lanza?Liability could be changed to have stiffer fines/imprisonment.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
And more controls were put into place in reference to air travel. How many hijacking have we had since?How many people died on September 11th? No guns involved there.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I’m saying that people need to be accountable for their weapons to assure they don’t fall into the wrong hands. We cannot prosecute Ms. Lanza, she’s dead. However, if we had stiff laws in place, what would this outcome had been if she followed laws requiring her weapons were locked in a gun safe, when she wasn’t using them?Are you stating that if fines/imprisonment were stiffer, this would have deterred Mr. Lanza?
This isn’t a ban, it’s ‘control’. A minor inconvenience a ‘law abiding’ citizen should be glad to fill, to protect their guns, and add protection from their guns with the public;e.g. save lives.
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ValPal
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First, we don’t know whether or not here guns were in a second. Second, anyone with a certain assortment of tools can break into one of those gun safes. Third, how does one enforce such a “control.” Daily/Weekly inspections of the person’s home? A law without enforcement is no law at all.I’m saying that people need to be accountable for their weapons to assure they don’t fall into the wrong hands. We cannot prosecute Ms. Lanza, she’s dead. However, if we had stiff laws in place, what would this outcome had been if she followed laws requiring her weapons were locked in a gun safe, when she wasn’t using them?
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ValPal
Guest
Quite frankly, I don’t see anything that would stop another such event. The biggest actions to prevent such events are actually the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which have directly affected the leadership of the major terrorist organizations, not the feeble TSA controls.And more controls were put into place in reference to air travel. How many hijacking have we had since?
We’ve already had individual terrorists get on planes with weapons since then. The September 11th-type hijackings take years to plan, and they are done when they are least expected. Unlike Americans, these people think long term.
Furthermore, the real steps necessary to stop these events will not be taken by the U.S. If you really want to see what needs to be done, see how the Israelis deal with such things. People in the U.S. will be screaming about civil rights if such steps were taken.
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aicirt
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This moring it was reported that he did try and purchase a gun or guns and was either denied or dropped the purchase when he realized there would be a background check.No guns at the hospital, or the ambulances that I work on.
What if a gun safe had been required of this woman, would her son have had access to the safe?
Illegal immigration is off topic, but similar, in that some people are trying to stop all immigrants, and not just the criminally inclined.
Liability could be changed to have stiffer fines/imprisonment.
Edited to add: If she was asleep, it has not officially been released that I can see.
I don’t know if she had a safe. I would assume she kept them locked but he did gain access. I cannot imagine her leaving them around when she was trying to get him committed. He could have smashed a wood cabinet the same way he smashed through the glass door at the school.
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A_G
Guest
Of course you can live a fruitful religious life without carrying a weapon. I’m not saying now everyone get armed - everyone has a different life, different situation, live in different areas of the world, etc… My point is that carrying a weapon isn’t necessarily bad, and good honest and normal people should have the option by law to protect themselves. Guess what…there are many bad people out there in the world, and you have a duty to protect your family and yourself. The Pope has heavy security around all the time, especially during his trips. This is, again I say, for protection. Reread my post and you may get my point. Post # 85Did any of the great, modern-day saints use weapons? I can’t imagine Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta carrying a weapon for protection. Nor can I imagine priests, monks and hermits needing a gun to protect themselves! Bottom line is that we can live fruitful, religious lives without having to carry a weapon!
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superamazingman
Guest
Hmmmm… Let’s see, off the top of my head, there’s that one in December 25, 2009 when a man made it on the plane and was only stopped after the passengers noticed, not after security stopped him.And more controls were put into place in reference to air travel. How many hijacking have we had since?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
It wasn’t a hijacking. It was stopped. Even with the best security, banks are robbed, people are murdered, women are raped, etc. We do what we can and don’t fall back on, well here’s an incident that slipped through the cracks. To do nothing, is negligent, in my opinion. While bearing arms is a right, it’s not ‘sacred’. Those people’s lives were. I’d much rather err in life’s favor, than a right.Hmmmm… Let’s see, off the top of my head, there’s that one in December 25, 2009 when a man made it on the plane and was only stopped after the passengers noticed, not after security stopped him.
I’m done arguing it. I’m made suggestions, and saw them all dismissed without consideration. I’ve asked questions and saw them ‘overlooked’. It’s not a constructive discussion. As it is an emotional thing to see those people murdered, it also seems to be an emotional thing for some gun owners to consider any controls at all.
Merry Christmas, if I’m not on later. Go spend time with loved ones, and remember those that have had that taken away from them.
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ValPal
Guest
Actually, not dismissed without consideration. The suggestions were questioned as to how they would have changed any of the events that occurred. You failed to demonstrate how any difference would be made. Without that, it’s just more “feel-good” legislation that has more of an adverse effect on the innocent, and is beneficial to those wishing to commit crimes.I’m done arguing it. I’m made suggestions, and saw them all dismissed without consideration.
I’m all for controls; demonstrate how they are beneficial and you might actually convince someone of something. FWIW, I don’t own guns and don’t intend to (though I am not defenseless either), so I’m not one of the emotionally charged gun owners that you refer to. I’m simply a realist.As it is an emotional thing to see those people murdered, it also seems to be an emotional thing for some gun owners to consider any controls at all.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
What solutions have you brought to the discussion?Actually, not dismissed without consideration. The suggestions were questioned as to how they would have changed any of the events that occurred. You failed to demonstrate how any difference would be made. Without that, it’s just more “feel-good” legislation that has more of an adverse effect on the innocent, and is beneficial to those wishing to commit crimes.
I’m all for controls; demonstrate how they are beneficial and you might actually convince someone of something. FWIW, I don’t own guns and don’t intend to (though I am not defenseless either), so I’m not one of the emotionally charged gun owners that you refer to. I’m simply a realist.
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pete_29
Guest
What solutions have you brought? Gun control? It doesn’t work! If it did, schools would be the safest places on Earth as it is illegal to possess a gun in a school. Do you want to throw people into prison because some criminal broke into their house and stole their legally obtained personal property? You might as well throw anyone who owns a gun, or a knife, or even a baseball bat, for that matter, into prison right now! You want to save lives? Be as passionate about banning abortion as you are about controlling guns and I will guarantee you’ll save more lives. I offered a solution for school shootings multiple times. I find it interesting that no one commented on whether or not that was a good idea. I guess since it didn’t involve gun control it wasn’t worthy. It’s easy to be anti gun, of course, only a small fraction of guns in this country are actually used in crimes. Find out why people kill, only then will these tragedies will be avoided.What solutions have you brought to the discussion?
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Prodigal_Son1
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The great conservative stance. Vote to save as many as possible, even over looking other issues. Gun control? No way!What solutions have you brought? Gun control? It doesn’t work! If it did, schools would be the safest places on Earth as it is illegal to possess a gun in a school. Do you want to throw people into prison because some criminal broke into their house and stole their legally obtained personal property? You might as well throw anyone who owns a gun, or a knife, or even a baseball bat, for that matter, into prison right now! You want to save lives? Be as passionate about banning abortion as you are about controlling guns and I will guarantee you’ll save more lives. I offered a solution for school shootings multiple times. I find it interesting that no one commented on whether or not that was a good idea. I guess since it didn’t involve gun control it wasn’t worthy. It’s easy to be anti gun, of course, only a small fraction of guns in this country are actually used in crimes. Find out why people kill, only then will these tragedies will be avoided.
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superamazingman
Guest
great liberal stance: stand by your ideology, even after it has been soundly refuted.The great conservative stance. Vote to save as many as possible, even over looking other issues. Gun control? No way!
Seriously: if you are right about gun control, why do all the shootings happen in “GUN FREE” ZONES? Clearly, limiting guns has done nothing but harm.
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ValPal
Guest
As I’ve posted elsewhere on this forum:What solutions have you brought to the discussion?
This isn’t the first time this has happened. Research these types of events.
100% perfect? No. But it addresses the issue, not the non-issue.Now that people have gone on for days about useless, emotionally driven, “feel-good” gun controls, it’s time to address the real issue. First, these anti-depressant, anti-psychotic drugs must be reevaluated. Second, as it pertains to guns, it should be a requirement that person taking such drugs may not own weapons, nor have access to them (e.g., live in a household with such weapons). There are various ways to check such things (registrations, investigations by social workers, etc.). Not 100% foolproof by any means, but a step in the right direction that is actually enforceable.
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pete_29
Guest
Great liberal stance. Blame everyone and everything but the perp, and demonize anyone that disagrees with you. You even overlook a solution that would work just to make yourself feel better.The great conservative stance. Vote to save as many as possible, even over looking other issues. Gun control? No way!
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
You have a false understanding of me and I guess it would be better to just end the discussion. I am not here to antagonize, or to be antagonized.Great liberal stance. Blame everyone and everything but the perp, and demonize anyone that disagrees with you. You even overlook a solution that would work just to make yourself feel better.
Merry Christmas.
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