What does the Book Of Mormon bring . . . .

[mark_a]

. . . . .that is morally superior to the bible?

 

[PaulDupre]

. . . . .that is morally superior to the bible?

It teaches that white skin is “delightsome”, while black skin is “loathesome”. Tell that to Sydney Poitier, ha ha. My wife thinks he’s very handsome.

God love you,
Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

Oops, someone just pointed out that I’m really Old! Please substitute Denzel Washington for Sydney Poitier.

Hi ho,
Paul

 

[mark_a]

It teaches that white skin is “delightsome”, while black skin is “loathesome”.
God love you,
Paul

Really? Is this in context?

 

[b_justb]

Really? Is this in context?

Book of Mormon: Nephi 12:20-23 And it came to pass that I beheld, and saw the people of the seed of my brethren that they had overcome my seed; and they went forth in multitudes upon the face of the land. And I saw them gathered together in multitudes; and I saw wars and rumors of wars among them; and in wars and rumors of wars I saw many generations pass away. And the angel said unto me: Behold these shall dwindle in unbelief. And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

Book of Mormon: Nephi 13:15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.

 

[mark_a]

Book of Mormon: Nephi 12:20-23 And it came to pass that I beheld, and saw the people of the seed of my brethren that they had overcome my seed; and they went forth in multitudes upon the face of the land. And I saw them gathered together in multitudes; and I saw wars and rumors of wars among them; and in wars and rumors of wars I saw many generations pass away. And the angel said unto me: Behold these shall dwindle in unbelief. And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

Book of Mormon: Nephi 13:15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.

Whoa!!

Do all Mormons use the same “Book of Mormon”?

 

[b_justb]

Whoa!!

Do all Mormons use the same “Book of Mormon”?

I have no clue, sorry. I am not very LDS savvy. Maybe there are Mormons that visit CAF that can offer rebuttal / explanation / etc.

 

[majick275]

the wording in the BoM was changed in the late 70’s without much explanation. newer editions say “pure and delightsome”. Of course when challenged with the old ones they will tell you that’s what it meant. So either the BoM was poorly translated for over a hundred years or white = pure. How nice that white americans are Gods chosen people.

 

[PaulDupre]

2 NEPHI 5:21

And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.

Elder MARK E. PETERSON

Race Problems – As They Affect The Church
Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level,
Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.

I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn’t just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn’t that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, “First we pity, then endure, then embrace”…

Now let’s talk about segregation again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of segregation…

When he told Enoch not preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were black, the Lord engaged in segregation. When He cursed the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in segregation…

Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He segregated them…

The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse – as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there…

continued…

 

[PaulDupre]

BRUCE R. MCCONKIE
Mormon Doctrine, p. 114

In a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole Negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry. (Gen. 4; Moses 5.) The whole house of Israel was chosen as a peculiar people, one set apart from all other nations (Ex. 19:5-6; Deut. 7:6; 14:2); and they were forbidden to marry outside their own caste. (Ex. 34:10-17; Deut. 7:1-5.) In effect the Lamanites belonged to one caste and the Nephites to another, and a mark was put upon the Lamanites to keep the Nephites from intermixing with and marrying them. (Alma 3:6-11.) All this is not to say that any race, creed, or caste should be denied any inalienable rights. But it is to say that Deity in his infinite wisdom, to carry out his inscrutable purposes, has a caste system of his own, a system of segregation of races and peoples. The justice of such a system is evident when life is considered in its true eternal perspective. It is only by a knowledge of pre-existence that it can be known why some persons are born in one race or caste and some in another. "However, in a broad general sense, caste systems have their origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the lord.

pp. 102.

Though he was rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan.

pg. 343

Through Ham (a name meaning black) the blood of the Canaanites was preserved through the flood, he having married Egyptus, a descendent of Cain.

Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them… Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned…

SPENCER W. KIMBALL
General Conference Report, October, 1960.
Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-923.

I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today… The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl–sixteen–sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents–on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather…These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

continued…

 

[PaulDupre]

JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH
Doctrines of Salvation, pp. 65-66.

There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.

pg. 61.

There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.

Juvenile Instructor, vol. 26, p. 635

It is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain was a skin of blackness…It has been noticed in our day that men who have lost the spirit of the Lord, and from whom His blessings have been withdrawn, have turned dark to such an extent as to excite the comments of all who have known them.

BRIGHAM YOUNG
Journal of Discourses

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.

Vol. 7, pg. 290-291

Cain slew his brother. . . and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race–that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed.

JOHN TAYLOR
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, pg. 304.

And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Hams’ wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representative upon the earth as well as God.

Millennial Star, Vol. 14, pg. 418.

For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent,…Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon them; and his white friends may wash the race of Cain with fuller’s soap every day, they cannot wash away God’s mark.

This is just a sample of the hundreds of quotes from Mormon “prophets, seers and revelators” about race.

 

[PaulDupre]

Whoa!!

Do all Mormons use the same “Book of Mormon”?

All of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints use the same Book of Mormon. The RLDS and other splinter groups use older versions, but they are all basically the same.

Paul

 

[mark_a]

All of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints use the same Book of Mormon. The RLDS and other splinter groups use older versions, but they are all basically the same.

Paul

Thanks.

BRIGHAM YOUNG
Journal of Discourses

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.

Has this ever been enforced?

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Black people weren’t even allowed into the LDS church for more than 100 years because of the teaching that the mark of Cain was thier physical appearence. This had to change as social attitudes shifted.

What I’d suggest you do is obtain a replica of the 1830 edition of the BoM. It has everything the newer ones have had altered (thousands of changes made over 100 years).

…you know…because the BoM is the most correct book ever written.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

The BoM is a masterpiece of prose! It is stirring. it is SO obviously inspired; my burning in my bosom tells me so!

On the other hand;

"All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the “elect” have
seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a
copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a
pretentious affair, and yet so “slow,” so sleepy; such an insipid mess of
inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this
book, the act was a miracle–keeping awake while he did it was, at any
rate. If he, according to tradition, merely translated it from certain
ancient and mysteriously-engraved plates of copper, which he declares he
found under a stone, in an out-of-the-way locality, the work of
translating was equally a miracle, for the same reason.

The book seems to be merely a prosy detail of imaginary history, with the
Old Testament for a model; followed by a tedious plagiarism of the New
Testament. The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint,
old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James’s translation of the
Scriptures; and the result is a mongrel–half modern glibness, and half
ancient simplicity and gravity. The latter is awkward and constrained;
the former natural, but grotesque by the contrast. Whenever he found his
speech growing too modern–which was about every sentence or two–he
ladled in a few such Scriptural phrases as “exceeding sore,” “and it came
to pass,” etc., and made things satisfactory again. “And it came to
pass” was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been
only a pamphlet."

Chapter XVI

Roughing It - by Mark Twain

see the full chapter at; readprint.com/chapter-10727/Mark-Twain

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Many of the ‘witnesses’ retracted thier claims of ever seeing the gold plates. A few even started thier own churches.

 

[Alma147]

Many of the ‘witnesses’ retracted thier claims of ever seeing the gold plates. A few even started thier own churches.

Not true. None of the witnesses ever retracted their claims about having seen the plates. Several were kicked out of the Mormon Church, but they held fast to what they claimed. Several believed that Joseph Smith became a “fallen prophet” but they insisted that he was initially a prophet and their later expulsion from the Church had no effect upon their witness of the plates.

Alma

 

[b_justb]

THE BOOK OF MORMON WITNESSES from an “exmormon” site, so biased against. But interesting questions are raised.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Not true. None of the witnesses ever retracted their claims about having seen the plates. Several were kicked out of the Mormon Church, but they held fast to what they claimed. Several believed that Joseph Smith became a “fallen prophet” but they insisted that he was initially a prophet and their later expulsion from the Church had no effect upon their witness of the plates.

Alma

bible.ca/mor-witness-book.htm

 

[b_justb]

bible.ca/mor-witness-book.htm

I personally wouldn’t trust the validity of bible.ca website. If you are Catholic look at what they say about Catholics. If they are willing to misrepresent the Catholic Church they way they do, I would think they would misrepresent anyone else they speak out against as well.