What Does the Pope Say About Female Servers?

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wisdomseeker said:
i believe we should pray daily that Jesus will save His Church.
i get pretty upset when i see the priest in my parish behaving like a comedian. he thinks he is real funny. he starts with good morning and a joke. his homily is very poor. he seems to be more interested in making people laugh and clap than preach the Word of God. it is very sad to me to see the lack of reverence in the Sanctuary. he invites people to talk during Mass. the music is so poor that i refuse to sing along, not that i have a good voice anyway. i dont have any traditional Church around me everyone i go to is worse than the other. i do see that less and less people are showing up for Mass. i just dont understand what in the world is going on. it seems to me the devil really got his hands on all this.

God may have Mercy on us all.
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i was told by a priest who does the novus ordo and by a traditional priest that you can attend and participate in the
pius X if the priest is not respecting the mass. just thought you’d like to know that in case one was near you.
God gives Catholics what we call the “Catholic Know”. it was given to us so that for catholics who do love Him and want to honor Him in an appropriate manner can.
 
weepixie71 said:
i was told by a priest who does the novus ordo and by a traditional priest that you can attend and participate in the
pius X if the priest is not respecting the mass. just thought you’d like to know that in case one was near you.
God gives Catholics what we call the “Catholic Know”. it was given to us so that for catholics who do love Him and want to honor Him in an appropriate manner can.
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thanks i have none around me. but i pray that our Lord bring one where i live real soon.

God bless.
 
this may sound strange but ask your closest catholic hosp if they know a traditional catholic priest. if someone requests a traditional priest on their death bed im sure they would know how to reach one.
some times a priest does a mass in the chapel of a hospital or in the convents for nuns. if this is the case the bishop does not allow the priest to advertise his masses because they will not be at stable times.
i found our priest at a hospital when i gave birth to my third daughter when i expressed my desire for a traditional priest to baptize her because she was premature. the priest was there in 20min.
 
weepixie71 said:
this may sound strange but ask your closest catholic hosp if they know a traditional catholic priest. if someone requests a traditional priest on their death bed im sure they would know how to reach one.
some times a priest does a mass in the chapel of a hospital or in the convents for nuns. if this is the case the bishop does not allow the priest to advertise his masses because they will not be at stable times.
i found our priest at a hospital when i gave birth to my third daughter when i expressed my desire for a traditional priest to baptize her because she was premature. the priest was there in 20min.
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thanks i will tried that.

God bless.
 
Is it a sin to have once in your lifetime been a female altar server? :confused: I was one when I was younger, but I have long since quit and since then I find it in bad taste for females to serve at Mass.
 
Mels said:
Is it a sin to have once in your lifetime been a female altar server? :confused: I was one when I was younger, but I have long since quit and since then I find it in bad taste for females to serve at Mass.
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i wouldnt go as far as say it was a sin. certainly not. but altar boys were indeed started in hopes to encourage the idea of becoming a priest. actually, technically no one but the priest, deacon, altar boy or royalty should be up in the sanctuary unless the priest has no one else to help him with handing out communion and this is only when it is would take the priest more than 20min to distribute it himself. the priest is supposed to do all the readings, consecrated wine should only be distributed during special occasions (this is to prevent spilling of the wine).
what people are afraid of, is that when a girl is up at the altar two things happen.
  1. people get used to seeing females at the altar and encourage the liberal thinking of female priests (which is against dogma)
  2. when a girl serves in place of a boy, she very well may be taking that “wow” factor from a boy while the priest is doing the tran-substantiation and want to become a priest. true the girl can get the “wow” also but imagine how much stronger it would be for the boy standing there that knows one day he could be that priest.
    me personally i think a boy should be able to be an altar boy every mass he can attend. there is no rule that there has to be two. i think the more the boys see all these other boys doing it the more they want to be involved. we actually have pews up at the altar at our church, so all the boys can be up their and the seminarians serve the mass.
 
weepixie71 said:
i wouldnt go as far as say it was a sin. certainly not. but altar boys were indeed started in hopes to encourage the idea of becoming a priest. actually, technically no one but the priest, deacon, altar boy or royalty should be up in the sanctuary unless the priest has no one else to help him with handing out communion and this is only when it is would take the priest more than 20min to distribute it himself. the priest is supposed to do all the readings, consecrated wine should only be distributed during special occasions (this is to prevent spilling of the wine).
what people are afraid of, is that when a girl is up at the altar two things happen.
  1. people get used to seeing females at the altar and encourage the liberal thinking of female priests (which is against dogma)
  2. when a girl serves in place of a boy, she very well may be taking that “wow” factor from a boy while the priest is doing the tran-substantiation and want to become a priest. true the girl can get the “wow” also but imagine how much stronger it would be for the boy standing there that knows one day he could be that priest.
    me personally i think a boy should be able to be an altar boy every mass he can attend. there is no rule that there has to be two. i think the more the boys see all these other boys doing it the more they want to be involved. we actually have pews up at the altar at our church, so all the boys can be up their and the seminarians serve the mass.
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Thanks. 🙂 Yeah, I do agree that more liberal parishes encourage female, well, anything. We have female readers, female altar servers, female “extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist”, etc. I don’t think this is right; it really should be the men up there.
 
Having female servers instead of male servers compromises future vocations. Even worse, it creates an army of future Catholic women who will want to become priestesses. Then they become outspoken critics of the Church and the media will give them center stage from which they can launch their vitriol. Result: more bad fruit.

Men are no better than women in the eyes of God. He chose different roles for each and we need to have humility like Mary to accept God’s will. She is the ultimate role model for all, men and women alike.

Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis ad Dominum Deum Nostrum.
 
I don’t understand. What is so wrong with women? Weren’t there women in positions of service in the New Testament? St. Paul speaks of women very highly in Romans 16, and they certainly appeared to be doing a number of important things involved directly in running the affairs of the church, imparting messages, etc. He didn’t seem to think that they would scare the men off, either.

And, truly, I don’t understand. How does a woman’s presence make men leave? If a man is called of God into service, how could a woman reading Scripture during Mass tempt him to change his mind?

As a woman, I have to say this conversation is rather painful to listen in on. Aren’t women image-bearers of God? No one is suggesting women be priests, but what is so threatening about a woman reading the Scripture? Why would anyone keep themselves and their daughters from that? Are men such frail weak creatures that a simple woman reading Scripture will cause them to stray from the calling God has on their lives?

I feel a bit like Christ must have when Martha was frustrated with Mary’s “failure to embrace her female role.” As we all know, though tradition supported Martha’s complaint, Christ made it clear that the problem wasn’t with Mary, it was with Martha.
 
I have a friend who’s a master of ceremonies (MC) for the TLM. He was already umpteen years in the job when the Vatican II ‘reforms’ were introduced. He helped oversee their introduction in his country.

He said this: “When women get involved, the men leave”.
 
lectio said:
I don’t understand. What is so wrong with women? Weren’t there women in positions of service in the New Testament? St. Paul speaks of women very highly in Romans 16, and they certainly appeared to be doing a number of important things involved directly in running the affairs of the church, imparting messages, etc. He didn’t seem to think that they would scare the men off, either.

And, truly, I don’t understand. How does a woman’s presence make men leave? If a man is called of God into service, how could a woman reading Scripture during Mass tempt him to change his mind?

As a woman, I have to say this conversation is rather painful to listen in on. Aren’t women image-bearers of God? No one is suggesting women be priests, but what is so threatening about a woman reading the Scripture? Why would anyone keep themselves and their daughters from that? Are men such frail weak creatures that a simple woman reading Scripture will cause them to stray from the calling God has on their lives?

I feel a bit like Christ must have when Martha was frustrated with Mary’s “failure to embrace her female role.” As we all know, though tradition supported Martha’s complaint, Christ made it clear that the problem wasn’t with Mary, it was with Martha.
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this is a big problem i have with the novus ordo. women do not seem to understand or realize that not only women do not belong up at the altar but ALL laity including men except altar boys and royalty are permitted up at the altar. the role of Christ gets lost when you have too much going on at the altar.

i ask this of the novus ordo people. are you so lost in your mass, and it feels so empty that the only way to make yourself feel a part of the mass is to be up at the altar? is your priest not capable of doing the readings? is your priests and deacons of your parish not able to distribute communion? can not your altar boys bring the bread and wine to your priest? why do you have to shake hands and hold hands when saying the Our Father to feel like a community?

you are confusing gender roles with priestly roles. and doing priestly roles no matter what the gender is wrong. the church is specific on this saying that laity should only help at the altar in an emergency. and when no other priest or deacon is not available.
 
weepixie71 said:
you are confusing gender roles with priestly roles. and doing priestly roles no matter what the gender is wrong. the church is specific on this saying that laity should only help at the altar in an emergency. and when no other priest or deacon is not available.
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Can you please cite the document where this is stated?
 
Joannm said:
Can you please cite the document where this is stated?
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canon LXIX—it is not permitted to a layman to enter the santuary(Holy Alter gk)though, in accordance with a certain ancient tradition, the imperial power and authority is by no means prohibited from this when he wishes to offer gifts to the Creator.

no laymen except the emperor shall go up to the altar.
 
to be honest this is what i was taught in school and i have been out of school since 1990, but i have not heard of any changes since. i do go to the tridentine mass so if their were changes i would not hear of them because we like the old way of doing things and it lacks the drama that the novus ordo has of how we are going to make everyone feel a part of the mass because unless you are a priest, bishop, cardinal, pope, altar boy, etc. the thought of being up at the altar just seems unthinkable. and what might seems stranger to the people who attend the novus ordo, i feel a huge part of the mass from in my pew.
 
weepixie71 said:
canon LXIX—it is not permitted to a layman to enter the santuary(Holy Alter gk)though, in accordance with a certain ancient tradition, the imperial power and authority is by no means prohibited from this when he wishes to offer gifts to the Creator.

no laymen except the emperor shall go up to the altar.
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Can you give a citation that is not so ancient and actually in effect today? We don’t have any emperors here in the Western world.
 
Isn’t that the problem?

We think we know better than our forefathers. Something that took 1500+ years to develop was transformed in a few decades by academics.

Has no one considered that the old rite developed the way it did because our forefathers, over many generations, kept what worked and discarded that which didn’t?

When they started changing the rite of exorcism recently I knew the jig was up. Like any of those responsible would ever go near an exorcism.

You can se the same thing in government. A bureaucrat makes a change in Whitehall or Brussels and a soldier on the front line takes a bullet because of it.

It’s a modern disease.
 
We know from the Bible that later years can change, in a negative way, the good that was done before. A good thing can be corrupted, to be sure.

Yet we also know from the Bible that Israel had many years, often entire generations worth of years, of missing the mark, and we know that then God raised up different leaders to get them back on track.

This means that just because a thing has changed from the “way it was always done,” does not in and of itself make the change a bad thing.

It might be a bad thing, sure. But then again, it might be a reform led by none other than the Spirit of God Himself, known to be a Wind who’s always swooping around messing with complacency and stiffness (and thanks be to God for that!). 🙂

Bottom line, I don’t think it’s a good idea to complain about change just because it’s change.
 
Lectio, that’s a mere intellectualism. Nowadays if someone says “Red!” someone else will say “Blue’s a very nice colour”. If someone says “Blue!” another will say “You’re prejudiced against Red”.

Consider the state of the Church before and after Vat. II. This monstrous change has not worked. It has been a disaster for the Church. In the next twenty years, when all the old N. O. religious have gone to their reward, the parishes they served will be wondering where their new priests are.

**Pope Benedict, as Cardinal Ratzinger, was very much in favour of the Vat. II reforms in the early days.

That he is now trying to wind them back says enough.**
 
I don’t think so. I think it’s fair. The Pharisees would have been saved, had they not held tightly to tradition when the Messiah walked among them. Tradition is only holy in so far as it conforms to the Spirit. Tradition, in and of itself, is not any better than anything else, and sometimes, such as in the case of the Pharisees, it’s deadly.

I am new to exploring the RC church. But I will say that I wouldn’t have even considered it without Vatican II. So reading through threads like this one make me very very nervous, and I find myself having a lot of second-thoughts that weren’t there when it was just me reading carefully through the Catechism.

Also, I confess to not understanding. I thought that, and forgive me if I’m wrong here, that the church councils were deemed to be infallible. How can one be against Vatican II without going expressly against the infallibility teaching?
 
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