What does this mean

[Vidi_Aquam]

In a bulliten at my Church it lists the masses of the week
(it is a Tridentine rite F.S.S.P Church) it has a class after each mass.

For example.

Dedication of St. Micheal
1st Class

25th Sunday after Pentecost,
4th Class

I dont get it?

 

[puzzleannie]

possibly these are meetings of Knights of Columbus members, who are divided into “classes”. I don’t know what FSSP means. Is it a parish in union with the bishop and with Rome?

 

[atsheeran]

FSSP is the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. Yes, they are in union with Rome. I believe it was formed by former members of the SSPX.

 

[palmas85]

In a bulliten at my Church it lists the masses of the week
(it is a Tridentine rite F.S.S.P Church) it has a class after each mass.

For example.

Dedication of St. Micheal
1st Class

25th Sunday after Pentecost,
4th Class

I dont get it?

They are the rankings of the Feast day on that date. For instance, September 29, is the Feast of the Dedication of St Michael the Archangel. It is a feast of the first class. The Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary is 1st Class, the Feast of St Agnes, Virgin, is 2nd Class as is the Purification of the Blessed Virgin Mary., Christmas and Easter are 1st Class with Octave

Under the traditional calendar, the various days were separated into Feasts, Commemorations, Ferias, Octaves or Vigils. The higher ranking Feast would take precedence over a lower ranking feast if both fell on the same day.

FSSP is the Priestly Society of St. Peter, a group that is authorized to say the Traditional mass under the terms of the Indult.

 

[Vidi_Aquam]

They are the rankings of the Feast day on that date. For instance, September 29, is the Feast of the Dedication of St Michael the Archangel. It is a feast of the first class. The Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary is 1st Class, the Feast of St Agnes, Virgin, is 2nd Class as is the Purification of the Blessed Virgin Mary., Christmas and Easter are 1st Class with Octave

Under the traditional calendar, the various days were separated into Feasts, Commemorations, Ferias, Octaves or Vigils. The higher ranking Feast would take precedence over a lower ranking feast if both fell on the same day.

FSSP is the Priestly Society of St. Peter, a group that is authorized to say the Traditional mass under the terms of the Indult.

So would we be obliged morally to attend a I class Mass let’s say on a weekday.

 

[demerzel85]

So would we be obliged morally to attend a I class Mass let’s say on a weekday.

The simple answer is no, unless in your diocese its a day of obligation. The complex answer involves checking the current Ordo of the Diocese and cross-referencing it with the 1962 Ordo, to see which are noted as days of obligation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

In a bulliten at my Church it lists the masses of the week
(it is a Tridentine rite F.S.S.P Church) it has a class after each mass.

For example.

Dedication of St. Micheal
1st Class

25th Sunday after Pentecost,
4th Class

I dont get it?

In the old Roman Missal Feast days were marked by rank. 1st Class Feast, 2nd Class Feast, etc. Today they are still ranked but you generally never see it printed anywhere unless you are using special books published for the Churches liturgy.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

In the old Roman Missal Feast days were marked by rank. 1st Class Feast, 2nd Class Feast, etc. Today they are still ranked but you generally never see it printed anywhere unless you are using special books published for the Churches liturgy.

I think the present system is Solemnity, Feast, Memorial, and Optional Memorial.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Under the traditional calendar, the various days were separated into Feasts, Commemorations, Ferias, Octaves or Vigils. The higher ranking Feast would take precedence over a lower ranking feast if both fell on the same day.

A question occurred to me today, which you or another knowledgeable person might be able to resolve for me. I use the propers in my 1962 missal as devotional reading, so I do the readings and prayers for the saint (or feria) of the day. I had always just assumed that all feasts and commemorations actually got done (leaving conflicts aside for the moment), especially because there was no weekday cycle of readings, but my liturgical history professor today said the typical weekly Mass prior to Vatican II would have been a Mass for the dead.

What classes of feasts (/commemorations/vigils/etc.), then, are obligatory, and which are optional? Whence does the practice (of which I have heard before) of having daily Mass be by default for the dead arise?

 

[palmas85]

A question occurred to me today, which you or another knowledgeable person might be able to resolve for me. I use the propers in my 1962 missal as devotional reading, so I do the readings and prayers for the saint (or feria) of the day. I had always just assumed that all feasts and commemorations actually got done (leaving conflicts aside for the moment), especially because there was no weekday cycle of readings, but my liturgical history professor today said the typical weekly Mass prior to Vatican II would have been a Mass for the dead.

What classes of feasts (/commemorations/vigils/etc.), then, are obligatory, and which are optional? Whence does the practice (of which I have heard before) of having daily Mass be by default for the dead arise?

While not exactly customary they did happen a lot. Under the old system there were days that were termed for Mass purposes, Mass of the Season. On those days you had no assigned feasts. So what you could do was substitute either, the Mass of the Previous Sunday, a Requiem Mass, a Votive Mass or a Mass of the Blessed Virgin

For instance lets use October 12, the day after my birthday as an example. The Mass of the preceeding Sunday could be said, omitting the Gloria and Creed. Normally any Votive Mass was allowed or a Requiem Mass. A Mass of the Blessed Virgin was proper if the 12th happened to be on a Saturday. Many priests preferred saying a Requiem Mass or Votive Mass in lieu of the previous Sundays Mass, maybe to avoid repetition. Normally they would celebrate a Requiem Mass. I personally think it was just easier for them to celebrate the Requiem rather than a Votive. And maybe they just wanted to add a little more help to the Holy Souls in Purgatory.

There were somewhere around one hundred of these days per year if memory serves me correctly. I think there were maybe something like 6-12 per month on an average. Some months had more, March had a lot for instance and others fewer.

 

[palmas85]

While not exactly customary they did happen a lot. Under the old system there were days that were termed for Mass purposes, Mass of the Season. On those days you had no assigned feasts. So what you could do was substitute either, the Mass of the Previous Sunday, a Requiem Mass, a Votive Mass or a Mass of the Blessed Virgin

For instance lets use October 12, the day after my birthday as an example. The Mass of the preceeding Sunday could be said, omitting the Gloria and Creed. Normally any Votive Mass was allowed or a Requiem Mass. A Mass of the Blessed Virgin was proper if the 12th happened to be on a Saturday. Many priests preferred saying a Requiem Mass or Votive Mass in lieu of the previous Sundays Mass, maybe to avoid repetition. Normally they would celebrate a Requiem Mass. I personally think it was just easier for them to celebrate the Requiem rather than a Votive. And maybe they just wanted to add a little more help to the Holy Souls in Purgatory.

There were somewhere around one hundred of these days per year if memory serves me correctly. I think there were maybe something like 6-12 per month on an average. Some months had more, March had a lot for instance and others fewer.

In the above situation I assumed that the 12th was falling on a weekday instead of a Sunday.

All Sundays regardless of rank, all 1st class feasts, ferial days of Lent Pasion Time and Advent, the September Ember days and April 25, The Greater Litanies were commemorations that had total precedence over everything else.

In some situations you would have a case where a higher ranking feast and a lower ranking feast fell on the ame day. In that case you would use the Mass of the higher ranking feast but include the prayer, secret and postcommunion prayers of the lower ranking feast , kind of like an honorable mention so to speak. You could also transfer the lower feast to a completely different day.

Hope this was of some help. It looks confusing but it really isn’t

This post is actually a continuation of post 10, sorry.

 

[AJV]

On the first day of the month (aside from Novemebr) a requiem was to be offered for all deceased priests, benefactors, family, etc. If a feast was celebrated then a commemoration was added using the collect ‘Fidelium’ (For all the faithful departed) in addition to other collects. Therefore, semidoubles would have 4 collects and Doubles 2, if there were no other commemorations

Prior to the changes of St. Pius X, priests were obliged to say a Mass of the Dead every Monday outside Advent and Lent, if there was no feast. This was reduced to an allowance of ferial or votive Mass for Monday (the Holy Trinty), however the collect Fidelium was required.

I think the Mass of the Dead and one of the votives of the BVM, Salve Sancte Parens, were the best known. These were also the two that were permitted to blind priests.

 

[decn2b]

Today two things.

Rankings of feasts…

I can’t remembe the second thing.

Let me get this straight.

1st class - Is now a solemnity
2nd class- is now called a feast
3rd class- is now called memorial
4th class- is now called?

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

In the above situation I assumed that the 12th was falling on a weekday instead of a Sunday.

All Sundays regardless of rank, all 1st class feasts, ferial days of Lent Pasion Time and Advent, the September Ember days and April 25, The Greater Litanies were commemorations that had total precedence over everything else.

In some situations you would have a case where a higher ranking feast and a lower ranking feast fell on the ame day. In that case you would use the Mass of the higher ranking feast but include the prayer, secret and postcommunion prayers of the lower ranking feast , kind of like an honorable mention so to speak. You could also transfer the lower feast to a completely different day.

Hope this was of some help. It looks confusing but it really isn’t

This post is actually a continuation of post 10, sorry.

So basically, all three classes of feast are obligatory, and then for commemorations and feria the choice of Mass is optional?

The context that sparked my curiosity was that the professor claimed the Mass only contained an Old Testament reading (humorously, I think, still classed as the epistle) about 4 or 6 times a year. But I knew from my following of the feasts that MANY saints’ Masses and the commons use an Old Testament selection, including feasts and votives of Mary who often gets a reading about Wisdom. So he just seemed way off base - unless, of course, those third class feasts were not getting celebrated.

 

[AJV]

Today two things.

Rankings of feasts…

I can’t remembe the second thing.

Let me get this straight.

1st class - Is now a solemnity
2nd class- is now called a feast
3rd class- is now called memorial
4th class- is now called?

Not exactly. With all the revisions some were downgraded according to the new rankings. For example in 1962, the Immaculate Conception was a First Class, in the current general calendar it is a feast not a Solemnity.

The same tyhing happened in the new rankings in 1960. Not to the major feasts, but many saints got downranked. Many feasts also lost the privelege of being transferred if they fell on a Sunday. or were outranked on a day when no commemoration could be made.

 

[AJV]

So basically, all three classes of feast are obligatory, and then for commemorations and feria the choice of Mass is optional?

The context that sparked my curiosity was that the professor claimed the Mass only contained an Old Testament reading (humorously, I think, still classed as the epistle) about 4 or 6 times a year. But I knew from my following of the feasts that MANY saints’ Masses and the commons use an Old Testament selection, including feasts and votives of Mary who often gets a reading about Wisdom. So he just seemed way off base - unless, of course, those third class feasts were not getting celebrated.

Usually, by custom, certain votives were assigned to weeks. Of course, most of the time, a priest could choose another votive within the rubrics.
Saturday: BVM
Monday: Holy Trinity
Tuesday:Holy Angels
Wednesday:St. Jospeh/ Ss. Peter and Paul/ Holy Apostles
Thurday: Blessed Sacrament/ Holy Spirit/ OLJC the High Priest
Friday: Passion of OLJC/ Holy Cross

Actually I think that in some ways your professor may have been somewhat right on saying that Masses for the Dead were common. Requiem Masses (of the semidouble rite meaning they were not on the day of death or the 3/7/30, etc day after the death) could be celebrated on any of the following days:
If sung: all non Double, non Sunday, non privileged vigils (Christmas, Epiphany, Pentecost), ferias (Ash Wednesday and Holy Week) and Octaves (see the 1962 changes thread)

If said (i.e. sine cantu): Semidouble or Simple Feast, a day within a common Octave, feria in Advent, Saturdays instead of S. Maria Sabbato, feria throughout the year. In Lent though, only on the first day of each week when a feria or semidouble/simple feast was said. They could not be celebrated on the days given above for sung Masses, and on the O Antiphon days (17-23 Dec) and Octave Days (eighth day of an Octave) and Rogation Monday.

These Masses could be said by priests who were not obliged to offer the day’s Mass for say, the people of a parish. If the priet’s were obliged to say the day’s Mass and could not celebrate anothe rMass they could always add a collect for the dead as when permitted by the rubrics. In cathedrals, for conventual Masses, two Masses could be said: one Requiem and one votive/ferial.

On the first day of the month (aside from November) a requiem was to be offered for all deceased priests, benefactors, family, etc. If a feast was celebrated then a commemoration was added using the collect ‘Fidelium’ (For all the faithful departed) in addition to other collects. Therefore, semidoubles would have 4 collects and Doubles 2, if there were no other commemorations
Prior to the changes of St. Pius X, priests were obliged to say a Mass of the Dead every Monday outside Advent and Lent, if there was no feast. This was reduced to an allowance of ferial or votive Mass for Monday (the Holy Trinity), however the collect Fidelium was required.

I think the Mass of the Dead and one of the votives of the BVM, Salve Sancte Parens, were the best known. These were also the two that were permitted to blind priests. The Mass of the Dead was also quicker omitting several gestures in other Masses as well as the psalm Judica Me, and certain prayers.

 

[AJV]

Usually, by custom, certain votives were assigned to weeks. Of course, most of the time, a priest could choose another votive within the rubrics.
Saturday: BVM
Monday: Holy Trinity
…

Prior to the changes of St. Pius X, priests were obliged to say a Mass of the Dead every Monday outside Advent and Lent, if there was no feast. This was reduced to an allowance of ferial or votive Mass for Monday (the Holy Trinity), however the collect Fidelium was required.

I think the Mass of the Dead and one of the votives of the BVM, Salve Sancte Parens, were the best known. These were also the two that were permitted to blind priests. The Mass of the Dead was also quicker omitting several gestures in other Masses as well as the psalm Judica Me, and certain prayers.

Forgot to note: I was speaking of the pre-1955 rubrics on the points above since they were in use for the better part of the 21st century. The collect Fidelium was suppressed in 1955.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Forgot to note: I was speaking of the pre-1955 rubrics on the points above since they were in use for the better part of the 21st century. The collect Fidelium was suppressed in 1955.

I could tell because you used the older classification of feasts. But, as you said, that is a more accurate picture of preconciliar worship than '55-'65.