What does this Verse Mean to Non Catholics

[CHESTERTONRULES]

In order for this passage to have any meaning, there must be an identifiable Church to appeal to.

I believe this makes an explicit case for a single, hiearchical Church.

Comments?

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

 

[Publisher]

Among Friends the church is the assembled body of believers. The “Church” exists where two or three are gathered together in his name.

If a Friend has issue with another Friend, it is brought before the meeting and probably would be put before a “Clearness Committee” to discuss, pray and meditate upon, then their recommendation would be given to the Meeting. The Meeting would then reach some consensus and give their “judgement”. In some Meetings the appointed Elders would “elder” the offending Friend…in some cases if that Friend persisted in an “unQuakerly” fashion, they would be “read out of Meeting”.

To me it’s clear it is the local meeting of the church/assembly/congregation/community that is spoken of here…but I’m not a Catholic, so I wouldn’t necessarily hold to your views on the subject.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

How would this verse make sense if, for example, a baptist and a methodist had a dispute?

 

[TBolt1000T]

How would this verse make sense if, for example, a baptist and a methodist had a dispute?

Good point.

 

[Publisher]

I would think that since Methodists and Baptists have a similar view of what the Church is, body of believers, they would be able to do what Friends do…take it to a body of faithful believers and ask them for guidence and counsel. I’m not sure, but I’ve read something about “Christian mediation”…to me that would fulfill the “spirit” of the verse…but this is just my opinion, perhaps a Methodist or Baptist could answer with more clarity.

 

[ralphinal]

I would think that since Methodists and Baptists have a similar view of what the Church is, body of believers, they would be able to do what Friends do…take it to a body of faithful believers and ask them for guidence and counsel. I’m not sure, but I’ve read something about “Christian mediation”…to me that would fulfill the “spirit” of the verse…but this is just my opinion, perhaps a Methodist or Baptist could answer with more clarity.

I think he means between a Baptist and a Methodist.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I would think that since Methodists and Baptists have a similar view of what the Church is, body of believers, they would be able to do what Friends do…take it to a body of faithful believers and ask them for guidence and counsel. I’m not sure, but I’ve read something about “Christian mediation”…to me that would fulfill the “spirit” of the verse…but this is just my opinion, perhaps a Methodist or Baptist could answer with more clarity.

I’m talking about two individual believers, ie. brothers in Christ.

Jesus gives a method for resolving these disputes.

However, his guidance only makes sense if there is a common understanding regarding who the Church is.

The Methodist and Baptist in this example have no common Church hierarchy that can resolve their dispute.

 

[reteeks21]

I’m talking about two individual believers, ie. brothers in Christ.

Jesus gives a method for resolving these disputes.

However, his guidance only makes sense if there is a common understanding regarding who the Church is.

***The Methodist and Baptist in this example have no common Church hierarchy that can resolve their dispute./***QUOTE]

So I guess we should all be treated like pagans then.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

CHESTERTONRULES;4269625:

I’m talking about two individual believers, ie. brothers in Christ.

Jesus gives a method for resolving these disputes.

However, his guidance only makes sense if there is a common understanding regarding who the Church is.

The Methodist and Baptist in this example have no common Church hierarchy that can resolve their dispute./

QUOTE]

So I guess we should all be treated like pagans then.

True.(It’s better than a tax collector!)

How did Jesus treat pagans?

With love and understanding in the hope of guiding them to the truth.

 

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4269784:

True.(It’s better than a tax collector!)

How did Jesus treat pagans?

With love and understanding in the hope of guiding them to the truth.

Well, at least I know how you feel about us. Nothing like being called a pagan. I’ve always wanted to be compared to godless heathens who are lost in their own wicked, godless ways. Thanks for driving home the point for me.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

CHESTERTONRULES;4269789:

Well, at least I know how you feel about us. Nothing like being called a pagan. I’ve always wanted to be compared to godless heathens who are lost in their own wicked, godless ways. Thanks for driving home the point for me.

I’m just quoting scripture.

Just so you know, I’m a former Methodist.

 

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4269802:

I’m just quoting scripture.

No you are not. You’re using a verse for the purpose of going after protestants, and then you are hiding behind the Bible. Jesus was speaking to men and their stubborness and refusal to forgive and work together through things. You are using it as an excuse and justification so you can throw stones at protestants. If that is how you want to reat us, so be it. At least we can know who to ignore.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

CHESTERTONRULES;4269806:

No you are not. You’re using a verse for the purpose of going after protestants, and then you are hiding behind the Bible. Jesus was speaking to men and their stubborness and refusal to forgive and work together through things. You are using it as an excuse and justification so you can throw stones at protestants. If that is how you want to reat us, so be it. At least we can know who to ignore.

That is your opinion, but that is not what he says. Jesus is telling believers how to resolve disputes and remain in unity.

What does this mean to you? As a protestant, these questions were troublesome.

Who did Jesus send, and was I following them?

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

 

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4269821:

That is your opinion, but that is not what he says. Jesus is telling believers how to resolve disputes and remain in unity.

What does this mean to you? As a protestant, these questions were troublesome.

Who did Jesus send, and was I following them?

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Troublesome for who? I know you think you got us figured out, but you don’t. I even said the verse is about unity. I guess you did not catch that. Is this all you are here to do? Is all you want to do is just go after protestants and call them names and attack them? It seems that way.

 

[onenow1]

error in post sorry

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

CHESTERTONRULES;4269835:

Troublesome for who? I know you think you got us figured out, but you don’t. I even said the verse is about unity. I guess you did not catch that. Is this all you are here to do? Is all you want to do is just go after protestants and call them names and attack them? It seems that way.

I’m trying to debate.

I think these issues are important.

I didn’t call anyone names.

Care to respond to my points?

 

[robgrassley]

CHESTERTONRULES;4269835:

Troublesome for who? I know you think you got us figured out, but you don’t. I even said the verse is about unity. I guess you did not catch that. Is this all you are here to do? Is all you want to do is just go after protestants and call them names and attack them? It seems that way.

If you don’t like this forum there are many others you could go to.
If you would like to continue down this road lets talk about the utter disdain as a Catholic I have encountered moving to the South from the North. The majority of the Protestants refer to us as the “WHORE OF BABYLON” and the ANTI CHRIST and really don’t even think we are Christians. They’re sending missionaries to Catholic countries to get the populations SAVED from the Pagan Catholics. This is rediculous. We’re not hear to pick on PROTESTants. We’re hear to further our understanding of Roman Catholicism. We love our faith and would love for you to come back to the Church that Christ left us. It is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. “to learn Church history is to cease to be Protestant.” Put down your sword and do the research for yourself. And most of all I love you!

 

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4269866:

If you don’t like this forum there are many others you could go to.
If you would like to continue down this road lets talk about the utter disdain as a Catholic I have encountered moving to the South from the North. The majority of the Protestants refer to us as the “WHORE OF BABYLON” and the ANTI CHRIST and really don’t even think we are Christians. They’re sending missionaries to Catholic countries to get the populations SAVED from the Pagan Catholics. This is rediculous. We’re not hear to pick on PROTESTants. We’re hear to further our understanding of Roman Catholicism. We love our faith and would love for you to come back to the Church that Christ left us. It is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. “to learn Church history is to cease to be Protestant.” Put down your sword and do the research for yourself. And most of all I love you!

SO let me get this straight. You move to the south, get called names, join the forum yesterday, then tell me that I can go somewhere else when someone makes assumptions about me and I respond to those assumptions? It would seem that the non-catholic religions forum is a place to learn and talk with people not catholic, and if that helps you to learn and understand your faith fine, but don’t come down on me because I disagree with the dude. Sorry some folks have been cruel to you, but here’s a tip: not all us protestants are like that, even us southern ones!

And what research are you talking about? What do you want me to research? Tell me and I will do it. I am here to have good discussion with people not like me, and I certainly do not go out of my way like some folks here to attack what catholics believe. I like to talk, disagree, and then make jokes with one another just like ralphinal, robhom, and me did earlier. Just as you don’t like to be called “whores”, we don’t like to be called god-less people. I think that’s not too much to ask, especially if you would like us to be more charitable.

 

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4269866:

I’m trying to debate.

I think these issues are important.

I didn’t call anyone names.

Care to respond to my points?

Okay, which points? You want me to debate whether or not I am in a true church? Whether or not I am a pagan or tax collector? What? Tell me where to start.

 

[tGette]

robgrassley;4269990:

SO let me get this straight. You move to the south, get called names, join the forum yesterday, then tell me that I can go somewhere else when someone makes assumptions about me and I respond to those assumptions? It would seem that the non-catholic religions forum is a place to learn and talk with people not catholic, and if that helps you to learn and understand your faith fine, but don’t come down on me because I disagree with the dude. Sorry some folks have been cruel to you, but here’s a tip: not all us protestants are like that, even us southern ones!

And what research are you talking about? What do you want me to research? Tell me and I will do it. I am here to have good discussion with people not like me, and I certainly do not go out of my way like some folks here to attack what catholics believe. I like to talk, disagree, and then make jokes with one another just like ralphinal, robhom, and me did earlier. Just as you don’t like to be called “whores”, we don’t like to be called god-less people. I think that’s not too much to ask, especially if you would like us to be more charitable.

Seems fair to me! It’ll cost you five bucks though!
Think of it as buying an indulgence!
Ducks head from on coming Catholic fist (possibly my own)