What does Traditional Catholicism say about active participation in Protestant service?

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I am a very traditional Catholic, and I routinely refer to all protestant denominations as heresies and occasionally even to the members as heretics. However, I am also an Eagle Scout, and a fellow Boy Scout of mine is forming a band for his Presbyterian community to do one of the services as his Eagle Scout project… He asked me if I would be willing to sing in the band and basically take on the role as cantor for this service. Apparently it did not cross my friend’s mind that I am NOT Presby. My question then is are there any clear statements from Holy Mother Church that would forbid me from taking such an active role in this service, or does this fall under appropriate ecumenism? I have also just been accepted to Franciscan University of Stuebenville’s Pre-Theologate Program, and have received a tentative acceptance to my diocesan seminary in Pittsburgh. As I prepare to begin discernment, I want to show good examples to my friends and family. So should I reach out here, or is it more important to stay firm and not step into heresy? Thanks. God bless! oh i need an answer for my friend as soon as possible as the first practice is tomorrow, so again thanks for any help:)
 
Dear brother remember the holy apostles broke bread with Christ followers as well with the Jews in their synagogue. I don’t see any harm of going to a Presbyterian service as long as your fulfill Sunday obligation at a Catholic Church.
 
Given your time constraints:

Option 1: When in doubt, don’t.

Option 2: Call your priest and ask his advice. Alternatively, ask your parents for guidance. I wouldn’t rely on a post from an anonymous stranger on Catholic Answers.

Option 3: Pray on it.

Option 4: Get more information. (Is the service a revival of some sort? Do you feel that your friend is trying to sway you from the faith or is his intent harmless and sincere? Could you be persuaded to drop Catholicism and join his church?)

Option 5: See Options 1-4.

The most conservative answer if you cannot find a reliable authority to answer your question is to politely decline the request, and ask your friend if there is any way you can make it up to him.

Food for thought: Sometimes I think we Catholics get a little too caught up in “rules” and neglect to find the “spirit” of helping others. What would Jesus do?
 
i would urge you NOT to go. They are not in communion with us and should be regarded as outside the Church, which they are. Going will only give the impression that you regard them as legitimate. Protestantism is a great heresy…or rather a collection of various heresies.
 
I’m not to sure the exact nature of the service, but the considerations that I would personally undertake regard whether it is an act of public worship or not.

If the band service is to be part of more of a concert like event, where patrons and participants are going merely for personal enrichment and enjoyment (even if the enjoyment is of a religious nature), then I don’t see a problem with it.

However, if the service is actually part of a WORSHIP/Sunday service, that changes the situation. Breaking bread with someone is an act of love and inclusiveness. The object is the other person. Worship, however, has its primary object as God. As such, I wouldn’t feel comfortable participating in worship that promotes an incorrect view of God.

I hope this helps you. But, as always, I would hope you’d have a trusted spiritual adviser to help sort through the issue. I just offer my distinction between worship and concert as information you might want to be sure to tell your spiritual adviser to aide them in their advise to you.

God Bless.
 
Traditional Catholicism says that one is forbidden to participate.

In other words, no. You just say no.

Sin of scandal (leading others into sin by bad example). Sin of false worship. Sin of equating one faith as equal to another. Sin of religious indifferentism.

In other words the friendship and comradery of you coming to their worship service and helping is offset by the fact that it is a FALSE worship service and by the disservice to the true worship of God.

You cannot take an active part in the worship service – by doing so you show you worship God with their false beliefs, and aid false worship.

It is the opposite of the ‘feel good’ choice for someone of this secular culture but if your feelings are rightly oriented, not only is it the -right- choice in truth it is the -right- choice in the heart. 🙂 It is the choice of love of the true worship of God. That feels good. You are zealous for keeping His pure Faith.

“Our Lord Jesus Christ, when in His Gospel He testifies that those who not are with Him are His enemies, does not designate any special form of heresy, but declares that all heretics who are not with Him and do not gather with Him, scatter His flock and are His adversaries: He that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.”
  • Pope Leo XIII
 
Just a word of warning: I run a drumline in a bagpipe band. We got picked up to play a gig at a Presbyterian church - in commemoration of their scottish roots apparantly. We were just to go in and play Amazing Grace and a couple of tunes and that’s it. But what nobody told me was that this was part of their “reformation celebration”. Now I’m a big believer in trying to reach out to our separated brethern (spelling?) - but I had no clue that I was going to inadvertantly help confirm these folks in their errors. It certainly wasn’t my intention to do so, but that’s what it ended up looking like.

So be careful - I understand reaching out and I’m all for it, but don’t ever allow yourself to be inadvertantly be placed in the same situation that I was. We want to lead our friends to the beauty and truth that is found in the Catholic Church, and not away from it. Also, consider your own faith - I’ve been to alot of different non-Catholic Christian churches and some things are astectically (again excuse my terrible spelling) impressive. Lots of good feelings, good music, once saved always saved theology, etc… It’s easier than you think to allow yourself to get sucked in.

(I don’t know why they consider the reformation something to celebrate anyways… separating Christ’s Church - even if they were theologically correct (which they’re not), surely isn’t something to celebrate.)
 
Brian777 said:
I am a very traditional Catholic, and I routinely refer to all protestant denominations as heresies and occasionally even to the members as heretics. However, I am also an Eagle Scout, and a fellow Boy Scout of mine is forming a band for his Presbyterian community to do one of the services as his Eagle Scout project… He asked me if I would be willing to sing in the band and basically take on the role as cantor for this service. Apparently it did not cross my friend’s mind that I am NOT Presby. My question then is are there any clear statements from Holy Mother Church that would forbid me from taking such an active role in this service, or does this fall under appropriate ecumenism? I have also just been accepted to Franciscan University of Stuebenville’s Pre-Theologate Program, and have received a tentative acceptance to my diocesan seminary in Pittsburgh. As I prepare to begin discernment, I want to show good examples to my friends and family. So should I reach out here, or is it more important to stay firm and not step into heresy? Thanks. God bless! oh i need an answer for my friend as soon as possible as the first practice is tomorrow, so again thanks for any help:)
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A few pertinent quotes from Pope Pius XI’s Encyclical Mortalium Animos:
Pope Pius XI:
Thus, Venerable Brethren. it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics. There is but one way in which the unity of Christians may be fostered, and that is by furthering the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it; for from that one true Church they have in the past fallen away.
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Pope Pius XI:
It is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their [pan-Christian] assemblies, nor is it anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ.
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Pope Pius XI:
Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt form of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you’ (II John 10).
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I think it would be probably OK if you participated in the band, but I’m not so sure about lectoring (what does a lector do in a Protestant church anyway?).

Of course you could never dream of recieving Communion there, but that probably won’t be a problem since Presbys only celebrate communion on rare occasions like every three months.

And I see no reason you could not participate in their liturgy (if they have one). The only difference is that in the Our Father Presbys say debts instead of trespasses as we do. They also add “for thine is the kingdom, power, and glory” instead of adding it on the end as we do.

BTW, while they are indeed heretics we do not call them that anymore. We now call them seperated brothers.
 
So to answer the OP:

If its Worship:No

If its for promulgating Protestantism:No

If its just a Band Esque type thing (Like a concert etc…):Ask a Priest

Good Luck with your Discernment! We Discerning Teenagers need all the help we can get:D

Also have you thought about the FSSP?
 
First off thank you all for your advice, It seems the overwhelming response is a solid stay clear of this whole thing, which is what i have felt the entire time. I did some reading on my own and found St. Alphonus Ligouri’s quote on this that one is not permitted to actively participate in the rights of heretics and infidels. I have to get an answer to my friend within the next few hours so I’ll pray a bit more and see what the Blessed Mother has to say. I must say that it is troubling to see so many (at first glance at least) varying thoughts on this matter from the Churcch, Im mean in her documents and such. Ad Totam Ecclessiam is at complete variance with pre-conciliar theologians, but Unitate Redintegratio seems to be more or less in tune with the traditional teachings.

to the above post. yes I have considered FSSP but at the moment am focusing on my diocesan seminary. I will see where God leads me in the next few years and go from there.
 
Brian777 said:
First off thank you all for your advice, It seems the overwhelming response is a solid stay clear of this whole thing, which is what i have felt the entire time. I did some reading on my own and found St. Alphonus Ligouri’s quote on this that one is not permitted to actively participate in the rights of heretics and infidels. I have to get an answer to my friend within the next few hours so I’ll pray a bit more and see what the Blessed Mother has to say. I must say that it is troubling to see so many (at first glance at least) varying thoughts on this matter from the Churcch, Im mean in her documents and such. Ad Totam Ecclessiam is at complete variance with pre-conciliar theologians, but Unitate Redintegratio seems to be more or less in tune with the traditional teachings.

to the above post. yes I have considered FSSP but at the moment am focusing on my diocesan seminary. I will see where God leads me in the next few years and go from there.
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I’m sure you can give a courteous answer to your friend. 🙂 It’s perhaps even a positively teachable moment.

If I ever felt a vocation I would go to an F.S.S.P. seminary or its near equivalent (where?) because I would want to learn securely, and not miss out on anything rather than have to sort things out all the time.
 
Brian777 said:
I am a very traditional Catholic, and I routinely refer to all protestant denominations as heresies and occasionally even to the members as heretics. However, I am also an Eagle Scout, and a fellow Boy Scout of mine is forming a band for his Presbyterian community to do one of the services as his Eagle Scout project… He asked me if I would be willing to sing in the band and basically take on the role as cantor for this service. Apparently it did not cross my friend’s mind that I am NOT Presby. My question then is are there any clear statements from Holy Mother Church that would forbid me from taking such an active role in this service, or does this fall under appropriate ecumenism? I have also just been accepted to Franciscan University of Stuebenville’s Pre-Theologate Program, and have received a tentative acceptance to my diocesan seminary in Pittsburgh. As I prepare to begin discernment, I want to show good examples to my friends and family. So should I reach out here, or is it more important to stay firm and not step into heresy? Thanks. God bless! oh i need an answer for my friend as soon as possible as the first practice is tomorrow, so again thanks for any help:)
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may i ask why do you want to go to this university? if you are traditional Catholic, i would think you would want to go to a more Traditional teachings of the Church. i dont think Stuebenville is very Traditional. i believe charismatic movements came from there. i may be wrong but there is what i heard.
 
SemperFidelis said:
Who says we must do this?
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**The Catechism of the Catholic Church, that’s who. **

Speaking as an ex-“separated brethren (actually sister)”, I would have been horribly offended, in fact, angry, if someone had called me and my church “heretical”. It would have reinforced the teachings that Catholics were pagans, idol-worshippers, and Biblically-ignorant.

But in 2002, when I heard Catholics (in the Catholic apologetics class that I attended) refer to me and my church as “separated brethren” I felt loved and at peace with them. I was drawn to this group of friendly, loving people who claimed to be part of the Church that Jesus Himself founded. ** I was willing to listen to them because they were willing to accept me as a sister in Christ (which is what the Catechism TELLS US TO DO!). **

One of our biggest goals as Christians should be the evangelization of others and bringing them home to the Catholic Church. More than likely, this will come about through FRIENDLY relationships, not antagonistic ones.

Calling someone (or their church) “heretical” is usually NOT going to result in friendship. But calling someone a “separated brother” leaves the door open and encourages friendly intercourse which hopefully will eventually result in the return of the “separated brethren” into full fellowship with Holy Mother Church.

If you want to call people heretics and condemn their churches as heretical, you go right ahead. But be prepared to explain to the Lord Jesus at your judgement day why you personally turned people away from the Church.

If you do this, other Catholics will have to work much harder to regain trust and friendship with these offended “separated brothers.” At least have a care for all of us who are trying to reach out to “separated brethren” and don’t make it any harder for us than it is. Keep your “traditional” thoughts to yourself, please.

I will accept that there are rare people who will be drawn into the Church by “hellfire and brimstone” preaching. Someone calls them a “heretic” and they are brought to their knees in repentance. The Holy Spirit does work in many different ways. If you are called to be a “hellfire and brimstone” evangelist and your words have brought many Protestants into the Catholic Church, then I apologize for criticizing you.
 
Cat said:
**The Catechism of the Catholic Church, that’s who. **

Calling someone (or their church) “heretical” is usually NOT going to result in friendship. But calling someone a “separated brother” leaves the door open and encouraged friendly intercourse.
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No the CCC doesn’t say we ‘must’ call them that.

It is a prudential decision whether to use that language or not. If a person becomes terribly offended by it, it is that person’s wrong decision to be so, because it is the truth and something that has to be faced.

However, using the term separated brethren as has been said can promote more friendly dialogue – at the risk of the people you are dialoging with thinking they are OK to believe as they are. This is a great risk.

One must not by the use of this new term, condemn the other language used, because that is the language of the Catholic Church and that language is the one that it has always everywhere used.

And the reason it is used is so that all, separated or not, understand how destructive sin is and schism and heresy is. It truly matters towards eternal salvation.

In other words the truth of Christ is worth more than human respect.

The word heretic is one of the words of the Lord Himself to describe those who are separated from Him. We must not contradict Him. Ever. 🙂

But we can be careful spoon feeding the truth to rebellious people, and we mustn’t call people heretics for our own satisfaction – it must only be said when needful, i.e. this normally would be warning of the great and deadly danger of some error to prevent people being misled or becoming complacent in sins, to clearly distinguish the truth from falsehood, the people of God, etc.
 
Cat said:
**The Catechism of the Catholic Church, that’s who. **
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I have read the CCC and I do not recall anywhere where it mandates that we can no longer use the term heretic and that we must use “seperated brethren.”
Speaking as an ex-“separated brethren (actually sister)”
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And speaking as an ex-“seperated brethren,” I have no problem acknowledging that my former beliefs and the beliefs espoused by my former “church,” were/are heretical.
If you want to call people heretics and condemn their churches as heretical, you go right ahead. But be prepared to explain to the Lord Jesus at your judgement day why you personally turned people away from the Church.
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You better pray for the souls of all those canonized Saints and Popes who used the word heretic then.
Keep your “traditional” thoughts to yourself, please.
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I don’t know if you noticed, but this is the Traditional Catholicism Forum. I don’t have to do any such thing thank you very much.

“Indeed, the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries, nor innovators: they are traditionalists.” - Pope St. Pius X
 
I am sure that Arius, Pelagius, Nestorius etc, would have been offended by being called ‘heretics’, but it certainly did not mean that they were not one.
 
If you want to know where the church stands on ecumenism begin by reading the Vatican II “Decree on Ecumenism”. Also the “Directory Concerning Ecumenical Matters Part One” which addresses prayer and worship. These documents use the term “separated bretheran”.
 
whether we call them heretics to their face or not, they still are. Heresy is heresy there is no ggetting around that point. I agree that shouting at a protestant that they are a heretic is not the best move because they usually will feel the same about Catholicism. Our Lord himself calls them heretics when he visits Saint Faustina. Each tilte has its time and place(ie “heretic” or “seperated brethren”)
 
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