What does Traditional Catholicism say about active participation in Protestant service?

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Please Brian, whatever you do, please do not call this young man, this friend a “heretic”.:cool:

If you do not want to participate that is understandable, but don’t be militant about it and don’t be offensive. While you might feel Protestants are heretical, they are still our brothers in Christ, they are still our friends and neighbors and fellow Americans, and you never know, in time they might come home. But if you offend this young man, it is likely you will not only lose a friend and alienate yourself, but he will never, ever consider coming home.

Besides, it’s likely he is a Presbyterian simply because that is what his family is and thats the way he grew up. He’s a young man so it could be that he knows nothing about Catholicism. Many Protestants think we’re just another denomination. It might be a good moment to educate him in our ways.

Be compassionate and he will always remembers that and it might even give him something to think about and consider…
 
Please Brian, whatever you do, please do not call this young man, this friend a “heretic”.:cool:

If you do not want to participate that is understandable, but don’t be militant about it and don’t be offensive. While you might feel Protestants are heretical, they are still our brothers in Christ, they are still our friends and neighbors and fellow Americans, and you never know, in time they might come home. But if you offend this young man, it is likely you will not only lose a friend and alienate yourself, but he will never, ever consider coming home.

Besides, it’s likely he is a Presbyterian simply because that is what his family is and thats the way he grew up. He’s a young man so it could be that he knows nothing about Catholicism. Many Protestants think we’re just another denomination. It might be a good moment to educate him in our ways.

Be compassionate and he will always remembers that and it might even give him something to think about and consider…
agreed. very nice noted. although we know that their teachings are heretics we dont have to go around calling them that. the Church should say that.

i have a friend who is a protestant and i know she is been endoctrinated against the Church. when i talk to her i have to be carefull on what i say so she does not think i am been judgemental. plus i have to consider she really does not know what the CC is so as many protestant dont. they dont even think that the CC is a Church. to them the CC is just a man made religion. it is a delicate situation. we must find strategic ways to explain the Church to them whithout calling them names.
 
As for the prayer that you posted, of course this is admirable to whisper to God in the privacy of your prayer closet, and with your close Catholic friends who have full understanding of what you mean when you say “heretic.”

Hide our Faith ? :ehh:

No
 
Church teaching has always been “Do not participate in Protestant Services.”

Current church teaching is that you may go and observe for educational reasons, and may participate in joint extra-liturgical prayer services for good cause.

An eagle scout project would not be sufficient reason in my mind, and singing in the band would be participation.
Can I get a source on your two statements? I was told not too long ago (by a fairly reliable source) that attending a protestant service(the case at hand was episcopalian) was an excommunicatable offense. However I couldn’t find anything about such a claim.
 
Hide our Faith ? :ehh:

No
I didn’t say anything about hiding your faith.

You posted a prayer, and I suggested that you pray as Jesus taught us (Matthew 6:5 & 6)–“When you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners, in order to be seen by men. But you, when you pray,go into your inner room and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.” (boldface mine)
 
Whoah, this post is clearly going in a bad direction, let me see if I can help…😃

First, regarding communion with heretics:

From SSPX FAQ’s:

The question here concerns what is called by the theologians communication with heretics. Here it concerns profane or civil communication, namely that concerning commerce, business and friendly conversation, as distinct from communication in sacred things pertaining to the worship of God, and prayer. Active participation of this latter kind is forbidden by the traditional law and practice of the Church (canon 1258, §1 of the 1917 Code)

I will put a link to a thread I wrote regarding protestants here to aid as well: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5175923#post5175923
I do not want to post the whole thread again, but I will if someone asks.

Simple answer is no, do not go.

2 John 1:10-11 “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”

I must admit that until I was 18 for 10 years I communicated with heretics yearly, assisting at a Bible Camp for Presbyrtarians, preparing for them beforehand and even teaching Bible classes. 😦

I still retain friendly relations with many of the folks who attend there, and though I worry about them, I pray them, and have asked them to pray for me. By praying for me, and I praying for them, I believe this will assist in their turning from error and accepting the True Faith. It is the most friendly way possible, to meet the Lord in prayer, but not together. By praying with them I assent to their error, and pretend they adhere to the True Faith, but I pray apart with the desire that it may one day be together. 🙂

And yes, I have been to many heretical and schismatic services to observe. In my case I feel I have no danger of being convinced, so I do not feel concerned, but each must govern his own conscience.

I think jimcav is writting in the right spirit, but Cat I must say I am a little concerned. I think I have gained more friends, of different views, by sharing our views honestly and openly, than by being concerned about offending people. The Truth is what is important, not our feelings. If have a good relationship with my aunt, who converted to Judaism, and she knows I feel she is not saved. But we are honest and commincate openly, even if we do not agree. Same with my agnostic cousin and hard-line New Mass uncle. A relationship which is dishonest avails nothing. And we are not their friends if we allow their souls to be at risk.

And yes, I do have someone I converted from heresy this way- I call her my wife.

Being honest does not mean be cruel or harsh, but honest.
 
We owe love to everyone, including Protestants.

Do not confuse charity with being nice, likeable, or other such non-offensive manifestations.
St. Jerome was a pill. St. Peter Damien was like a mad-man when it came to homosexuality.

Those who preach love always – when they really mean “be nice” – forget that charity always seeks the truth.
 
Boldface mine–Romans 13:8 says, “Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another.”

We owe love to everyone, including Protestants.

Calling someone a heretic is hateful. Perhaps in Pope Pius X’s time, the word “heretic” did not have the horrible, nasty connotations that it currently has–I wouldn’t know, since I didn’t live in Pope Pius X’s time. But in TODAY’S time, where I live, it is a hate-filled word that will cause hurt and will probably result in a breaking-off of friendship and communication.

Traditionalists often tout the superiority of Latin because it is a “dead language” and therefore, the meanings of the words do not change. Well, English is NOT a dead language, and the meaning of the word “heretic” has changed immensely even in the last 50 years. It’s a terrible word, a horrible word, one that causes pain. IMO, it should be banned from CAF, just as certain other nasty names are banned.

It does NOT help people to understand that their beliefs are not what Jesus taught. It only estranges people and drives them away from the Church.

Calling someone a “heretic” is not love. It will not fulfill the debt of love that we as CHRISTIANS owe to everyone.

You can correct people without calling them filthy, hateful, insulting names. If a teenaged girl was sleeping with a boy, I could gently and lovingly try to lead her back to righteousness, or I could call her a whore–which is truly what she is, right? Which method do you think is more likely to RESTORE this young woman?

And by the way, I_Believe, you may not owe the Protestants anything, BUT I DO!!! It was through the Protestants that I first heard of Jesus and came to know Him as Savior and Lord. It was through Protestants that I read and studied the Bible backwards and forwards. It was through Protestants that I learned right and wrong, what the commandments of the Lord are, and how I can act like a Christian and love my fellow man, including those who are not like me.

I owe MUCH to Protestants–it was the Protestant evangelical churches that prepared me to become Catholic, because I was taught that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that there is no other Name by which I can be saved. **This is how I was able to recognize the truth of the Catholic Church when I finally walked through the door–I had learned to recognize Jesus from the Protestants, those “heretics.” **

Here’s my challenge–seek out a Protestant friend and tell him/her that he/she is a heretic. Then come back to this forum and tell us whether that was a good idea or not.

I_Believe, do you realize that nowadays, you will be using an insulting word to call Protestants “Protestants?” There are many non-Catholic Christians who take serious issue with this name, which they reject utterly. You can go right ahead and cling to the definition of “Protestant” that you grew up with, or you can accept that this word, like many in the English language, is changing in its meaning and is now hurtful to many Christians. It does no good to insist upon keeping the past meaning of the word if it’s going to antagonize people.

It’s kind of like the words that we use to describe people who are not white. For a long time, everyone used the “n” word and people meant no harm or insult. In fact, it is used today among the people themselves. But then we said “colored people” or “Negroes,” then “Afro-American,” “black,” and “people of color.” Currently the correct term is “African American.” Again, if you want to insist on using the original name, and claiming that it still means what it meant a hundred and fifty years ago and carries no harmful or demeaning connotations, go ahead. Good luck with that! But I’ll use the name that tells people that I am eager to communicate and make friends and keep peace. "Blessed are the peacemakers."

How many Protestants have you personally led back into the Catholic Church by calling them heretics? I’ll tell you what’s going on in MY family–a few years ago, my very Protestant, Pentecostal mother-in-law told us to our face that she rejects Catholism. But on Sunday, she told us that she visited a church full of statues (Catholic) and took great comfort in the company of the saints, and even asked St. Anthony to help her find something that she had lost, and it WORKED and she was praising God for it! My husband and I are still in shock! He grew up hearing her condemn Catholicism, and now she is accepting what for many Catholics is a major stumbling block–the communion of the saints. I think it’s a matter of time before she and our entire family will be home. And we’ll continue our gentle, non-condemning, non-name calling, loving evangelism.

As for the prayer that you posted, of course this is admirable to whisper to God in the privacy of your prayer closet, and with your close Catholic friends who have full understanding of what you mean when you say “heretic.” But I repeat, to use this degrading and horrible word around real people, real Protestants who love the Lord, is nasty and will lead to no good.
Why do you consider the word heretic to be such a horrible degrading word? It aptly describes non Catholics. The word heretic comes from the Greek word to choose. Heretics freely choose to be heretics. They freely choose to ignore the true teaching of the Church and freely choose to depart from Her. They freely choose the path that they are on. Since they by and large totally reject the Church, why should it matter to them how they are described by the Church? They don’t accept us anyway and in general don’t even consider us to be Christians at all.

The word describes them perfectly.

The problem is that you are embarrassed to call them what they really are because you don’t want to seem to be judgemental. It is not judgemental to speak the truth.
 
Can I get a source on your two statements? I was told not too long ago (by a fairly reliable source) that attending a protestant service(the case at hand was episcopalian) was an excommunicatable offense. However I couldn’t find anything about such a claim.
Vatican II post conciliar documents. Section on Ecumenism.
 
Why do you consider the word heretic to be such a horrible degrading word? It aptly describes non Catholics. The word heretic comes from the Greek word to choose. Heretics freely choose to be heretics. They freely choose to ignore the true teaching of the Church and freely choose to depart from Her. They freely choose the path that they are on. Since they by and large totally reject the Church, why should it matter to them how they are described by the Church? They don’t accept us anyway and in general don’t even consider us to be Christians at all.

The word describes them perfectly.

The problem is that you are embarrassed to call them what they really are because you don’t want to seem to be judgemental. It is not judgemental to speak the truth.
You do not have to call someone a name to speak the truth.

My husband and I were never called “heretics” by any Catholics. Instead, they did, indeed, speak the truth, and we came to see ourselves that we had always believed in heretical teachings. No one needed to throw it in our face. Instead of antagonizing us and being “pills,” people were kind to us.

Take care, everyone. Take great care. Many Protestant Christians have been hurt by their churches or by other Christians, and if you, in the name of Christian love and honesty, call them names, you may well push them over the top and totally away from the Church. After we were accused (falsely ) of various misdeeds and thrown out of our Protestant church, it wouldn’t have taken much for me to reject the Church entirely. In fact, I said to God that I would NEVER be part of any church again unless that church wooed me like a bride. I wouldn’t call “name-calling” wooing.
 
Why do you consider the word heretic to be such a horrible degrading word? It aptly describes non Catholics. The word heretic comes from the Greek word to choose. Heretics freely choose to be heretics. They freely choose to ignore the true teaching of the Church and freely choose to depart from Her. They freely choose the path that they are on. Since they by and large totally reject the Church, why should it matter to them how they are described by the Church? They don’t accept us anyway and in general don’t even consider us to be Christians at all.

The word describes them perfectly.

The problem is that you are embarrassed to call them what they really are because you don’t want to seem to be judgemental. It is not judgemental to speak the truth.
Maybe I’m wrong and if so, please do not attack me for it, as a stroke patient I promise I am doing my best, bot strokes do effect the thinking and reasoning.

I thought a heretic as defined by the church herself is an individual who has known and respected the truth, but has deliberately rejected the truth, such people would be Luther, Calvin and the other founders of Prostestantism.

But I am not so sure that present day Lutherans, Reformed, and Presbyterians could be truly called heretics, they are not actively rejecting the truth, they do not even know the truth, and are just following in their ancestors footsteps and incorrect dogmas, through no fault of their own. How can such people be called heretics when they are not culpable? Their heresy is the heresy of their forbearers, not their own deliberate choice and thus they cannot be called heretics by the definition ofnthe church.

On the other hand Catholics who were adequately catechised, who knew the truthand deliberatly rejected it by joining another church, can be legitimatly called heretics.

There I think is the nub of the problem, deliberate choice.

Just like mortal sin, there has to be the knowledge of an act, and a deliberate choice to do it, before it can be called mortal sin.
 
I think everyone needs to read this entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia on heresy.

And don’t just skim it because it is long. Read it all.

It clearly establishes: The word is in scripture, the apostles use it, Christ uses it, the Fathers use it, the Popes use it, the Ecumenical Councils use it.

It applies to all Protestants, both original and born into it.

The use of the word is there for many reasons, but some of these include: The truth is more important than human respect, it is more important to preserve the purity of the faith than human respect, and in fact, heresy is mortal sin, very deadly sin, and even if a person is unaware of it, like fornication and other deadly sins, it is objectively a deadly sin.

And you don’t do people favors by not telling them they are in deadly sin. You can gently broach it to them, you can work around to it, you can do your best that their pride be changed into humility…

But in the end, the Lord hates the proud.

The Word of God itself calls heretics: dogs, wolves, anti-Christs. St. Thomas calls heresy, ‘the greatest sin’. Many places the word heretic is not translated as such explicitly - but in the original language, it is in there.

A person with humility pursues the truth whereever it is to be found, and realizes his depravity. When told he is a dog, says, ‘Even the dogs receive the crumbs’ instead of, ‘You didn’t woo my feelings, you’re evil.’

In other words, the truth is more important than emotions. Confronting deadly evil very important, especially lest it acquire a guise of good.

It’s a matter of prudence when to use it, and it is difficult not to sin in words. But it’s not to be disavowed, and it is a disservice to Christ Himself to try to obliterate it. It’s more than a disservice. . . Rather one must learn when and how and why it is used. 🙂

St. Paul writes to Titus: “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: knowing that he, that is such a one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment” (Titus 3:10-11).
 
Welcome to the dark side Cat 😃

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You do not have to call someone a name to speak the truth.

My husband and I were never called “heretics” by any Catholics. Instead, they did, indeed, speak the truth, and we came to see ourselves that we had always believed in heretical teachings. No one needed to throw it in our face. Instead of antagonizing us and being “pills,” people were kind to us.

Take care, everyone. Take great care. Many Protestant Christians have been hurt by their churches or by other Christians, and if you, in the name of Christian love and honesty, call them names, you may well push them over the top and totally away from the Church. After we were accused (falsely ) of various misdeeds and thrown out of our Protestant church, it wouldn’t have taken much for me to reject the Church entirely. In fact, I said to God that I would NEVER be part of any church again unless that church wooed me like a bride. I wouldn’t call “name-calling” wooing.
Forgive me, but I thought our job a Christians was to embrace the Truth no matter what anyone says. Would you seriously reject the Church because you just do not like how some member conduct themselves?!? Is the faith of protestants really as fragile as you say it is?

I repeat, I never had anyone get offended over a disagreement. I see no person here advocating we stand and yell heretic at everyone, but we should not obfuscate or distort if asked.
Personally, when asked, I like to say protestants are “in error,” rather than heretical.

As for me, I have been insulted more ways than I would like to recall by people in the Church regarding matters of Faith. I often like to joke if Faith was based on the membership, I would be agnostic. Yet here I am still. I am either stubborn or faithful. You decide.😃
 
I think everyone needs to read this entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia on heresy.

And don’t just skim it because it is long. Read it all.

It clearly establishes: The word is in scripture, the apostles use it, Christ uses it, the Fathers use it, the Popes use it, the Ecumenical Councils use it.

It applies to all Protestants, both original and born into it.

The use of the word is there for many reasons, but some of these include: The truth is more important than human respect, it is more important to preserve the purity of the faith than human respect, and in fact, heresy is mortal sin, very deadly sin, and even if a person is unaware of it, like fornication and other deadly sins, it is objectively a deadly sin.

And you don’t do people favors by not telling them they are in deadly sin. You can gently broach it to them, you can work around to it, you can do your best that their pride be changed into humility…

But in the end, the Lord hates the proud.

The Word of God itself calls heretics: dogs, wolves, anti-Christs. St. Thomas calls heresy, ‘the greatest sin’. Many places the word heretic is not translated as such explicitly - but in the original language, it is in there.

A person with humility pursues the truth whereever it is to be found, and realizes his depravity. When told he is a dog, says, ‘Even the dogs receive the crumbs’ instead of, ‘You didn’t woo my feelings, you’re evil.’

In other words, the truth is more important than emotions. Confronting deadly evil very important, especially lest it acquire a guise of good.

It’s a matter of prudence when to use it, and it is difficult not to sin in words. But it’s not to be disavowed, and it is a disservice to Christ Himself to try to obliterate it. It’s more than a disservice. . . Rather one must learn when and how and why it is used. 🙂

St. Paul writes to Titus: “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: knowing that he, that is such a one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment” (Titus 3:10-11).
The problem with this is that many Protestants, including almost all the evangelical variety, have no concept of the term “mortal sin” or “deadly sin.”

This may sound offensive to many of you, and I apologize for the graphics, but I am only trying to make this clear. To an evangelical Protestant, a person who rapes and buries alive an 8-year-old little gir has committed no more serious a sin than the person who takes a lick of the cake frosting after Mom tells them not to touch the cake.

Evangelical Protestants believe that sin is sin, and that it is all equal, and that when they accept Jesus as their Personal Savior, ALL of their sin, past, present, and future, is instantly and permanently forgiven. The only reason you ask Jesus to forgive your sins after you receive Jesus as Savior is for YOUR benefit–to remind you of His Sacrifice and to keep you close to Jesus. But if you don’t ask Him to forgive you, it doesn’t matter. He already has forgiven you.

If you continue to commit habitual sins, then it is questionable whether you REALLY asked Jesus to be your Personal Savior, and you are urged to ask Him into your heart again, only this time, you must really mean it.

I hope I am doing a good job of summarizing what most evangelical Protestants believe about sin and forgiveness.

So for you to accuse them of “deadly sin” is like telling them that they kiddly coo bedaddle. It means nothing to them. It’s a completely foreign language and concept.

OTOH, the word “heretic” is offensive because you are telling them that they don’t believe correctly in what God teaches in the Bible, and they believe that they DO believe correctly and that YOU are the one who is wrong about various teachings and that the Catholic Church is “cursed” because you have added things to the Scriptures. (Revelation 22: 18 & 19). They believe that you and the Catholic Church has NO AUTHORITY to call anyone a heretic because the Catholic Church isn’t truly “Christian,” but pagan with Christian trappings. They do believe that there are Catholics who are Christians, but only because these Catholics have “accepted Jesus into their heart to be their Personal Savior.” (which Catholics do at every Eucharist).

The best thing you can do rather than accusing them of kiddly coo bedaddle or calling them a hateful name is to show them FROM THE BIBLE, the only source that they will listen to and trust, what God teaches about sin and forgiveness. And you’d better know those verses without having them written down, and you’d better be able to flip around a Bible without having index tabs on the pages to show you where the various books are, or the evangelical Protestant won’t trust that you know what you’re saying.

And even then, the evangelical Protestant will probably counter your Biblical presentation about mortal and venial sin with various verses and passages of their own.

But I assure you that even when it seems hopeless, it isn’t. The evangelical Protestant will go home and in the privacy of their prayer closet, will mull over the Bible passages that you point out to him/her, and they will pray about it, and they’ll study all the passages in context, and the Holy Spirit WILL work in their lives. IMO, this is the way to win evangelical Protestants over to the Catholic Church–through thoughtful and scholarly exegesis of the Scriptures, not through name-calling or accusations.

So honest, bottom line–what I’m getting at is this–if you don’t understand yourself exactly WHAT evangelical Protestants really believe and understand WHY they believe this, then how can you possibly call them heretics and accuse them of heresy?!
 
So honest, bottom line–what I’m getting at is this–if you don’t understand yourself exactly WHAT evangelical Protestants really believe and understand WHY they believe this, then how can you possibly call them heretics and accuse them of heresy?!
If you know they don’t believe in any one, or all of: transubstantiation, Papal Infallability, the Immaculate Conception, the Virgin Birth, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the true forgiveness of sins, amongst other hall marks of the Church, then they are guilty of heresy, and hence they are heretics…

Lets face facts people. A spade is a spade. You can call a spade a mechancial device that may or may not be used for the relocation of defecation or other wastes, and/or indeed may or may not be used to lean on by the less active of municipal council employees. But its still a spade, isn’t it?
 
I am a very traditional Catholic, and I routinely refer to all protestant denominations as heresies and occasionally even to the members as heretics. However, I am also an Eagle Scout, and a fellow Boy Scout of mine is forming a band for his Presbyterian community to do one of the services as his Eagle Scout project… He asked me if I would be willing to sing in the band and basically take on the role as cantor for this service. Apparently it did not cross my friend’s mind that I am NOT Presby. My question then is are there any clear statements from Holy Mother Church that would forbid me from taking such an active role in this service, or does this fall under appropriate ecumenism? I have also just been accepted to Franciscan University of Stuebenville’s Pre-Theologate Program, and have received a tentative acceptance to my diocesan seminary in Pittsburgh. As I prepare to begin discernment, I want to show good examples to my friends and family. So should I reach out here, or is it more important to stay firm and not step into heresy? Thanks. God bless! oh i need an answer for my friend as soon as possible as the first practice is tomorrow, so again thanks for any help:)
We’re forbidden to participate in false worship, and this includes Protestant worship. I wasn’t aware of the Church changing this (I am familiar with the *attempts *though).

Better to set an example of faithfulness to God than endorse condemned, false ecumenism.
 
Forgive me, but I thought our job a Christians was to embrace the Truth no matter what anyone says. Would you seriously reject the Church because you just do not like how some member conduct themselves?!? **Is the faith of protestants really as fragile as you say it is? **
I repeat, I never had anyone get offended over a disagreement. I see no person here advocating we stand and yell heretic at everyone, but we should not obfuscate or distort if asked.
Personally, when asked, I like to say protestants are “in error,” rather than heretical.

As for me, I have been insulted more ways than I would like to recall by people in the Church regarding matters of Faith. I often like to joke if Faith was based on the membership, I would be agnostic. Yet here I am still. I am either stubborn or faithful. You decide.😃
Boldface mine, above–this is an absolutely excellent question, and I thank you so much for bringing it up.

I would answer your question “yes” for a number of reasons. This probably deserves a topic of its own here on CAF, but for now, I’ll leave it in this thread since this is the way the discussion is flowing. This is NOT an exhaustive answer to your question, but only a few ideas off the top of my head. And unfortunately, it’s too long for one post, so it will have to be divided into halves. Sorry.

Here are some reasons I say that Protestant faith is very fragile:
  1. Many Protestants, especially evangelical, believe in the doctrine of sola Scriptura, or that the Bible is our SOLE source of authority. Many times, as long as the evangelical Protestant remains in their own church with their own people, they continue to believe this doctrine because there is no conflict. But when they venture outside of their church, perhaps to attend a community prayer meeting, or a Bible Study Fellowship-type Bible study, or a conference/seminar, or a youth group fellowship, they meet other Christians who hold different beliefs about the Bible and attend different churches.
Many of these differences seems superficial until the Protestant begins delving a little deeper. Then they begin to see how convoluted the various systems of Protestant theology are.

Certainly, all Christians, including CATHOLICS, believe in the Five Fundamentals of the Faith (Virgin birth and deity of Jesus, inerrancy of the Scirptures, substitutionary atonement of Jesus’s death, literal bodily resurrection of Jesus, miracles of Jesus and/or Second Coming of Jesus).

But ask twenty Protestants a simple question such as “How can I be saved?” and you will receive twenty different answers. All of them will have some element of “receiving Jesus” even as Catholic salvation theology does

But many will add, “Profess your faith before man” or “be baptized” or “do good works” or “don’t drink alcohol,” etc.

Such an important issue as eternal salvation is not clear-cut among Protestants, including evangelical Protestants!

And THIS is the kind of thing that can really shake up a Protestant’s faith and make them doubt what they have believed all their lives!

That’s one reason you’ll find that a lot of the fundamentalist Protestants are separatists (don’t associate with people outside of their church other than in business)–they’ve seen too many people “fall away from the faith” once they begin to ask too many questions. The fundamentalists are smart!–they know better than to let people ask too many questions!
  1. Even though evangelical Protestants claim that they believe that the Scriptures are their sole source of authority, nevertheless, many of them develop a loyalty to a particular pastor, teacher, author, musician, or organization (e.g., Campus Crusade for Christ, or Focus on the Family, or a certain denomination).
WHEN one of these individuals or organizations is caught in a sin, especially if it is someone close to home that is known personally by the Protestant, it is absolutely devastating to the Protestant who has followed this person or organization.

I am not exaggerating to say that the very foundations of their faith are shaken and often destroyed when a person or organization fails.

The thought process is like this–if “THAT PERSON” or “THAT ORGANIZATION” whom I trusted was actually committing sin all the time, then HOW CAN I TRUST ANYTHING ELSE THAT THEY TAUGHT ME?!!

You see, the Protestants have no 2000-year-old Church to look to. They only have their Bibles and the men and women who interpret the Bible for them.

continued next post
 
(continued from last post)
  1. Although many evangelical Protestants SPURN feelings and emotions, there are some sects that are very much “feelings based,” especially the Pentecostal (charismatic) sects. e.g., the Assemblies of God. As we all know, human feelings vary depending on many circumstances, e.g., personal health and well-being. If a Christian has become dependent on certain feelings during a worship service, and these feelings go away (which they inevitably do due to familiarity), the Christian seeks more “experiences” in worship to help them get those good feelings back again.
(Side note–this is one reason I worry when I hear Catholics say, “I feel more reverent in a TLM” or make some other statement about feelings and God. I was raised in non-emotional evangelical churches, and I am suspicious of anything that smacks of feelings.)

But again, the feelings will eventually dissipate, and THAT’S when the doubts start. The Christian doesn’t “feel Christian,” so they doubt whether they ever really believed in God, and then they start to doubt if there is even a God to believe in. (It becomes even more complicated when they visit a secular venue, e.g., a concert hall, a bar, etc., and have those same great feelings that they once enjoyed in their church. THEN they begin to realize that all of their Christianity was just “feelings” and they fall away because they don’t think it’s real.)

A side issue when it comes to feelings is the hurt that many Protestant Christians have experienced in their church and from Christians. This is the reaons my husband and I parted ways with our Protestant churches. For decades, we gave our very lives and over 20% of our income to our church. We were evangelicals of evangelicals, extremely involved with many ministries, and very successful in these ministries. We LOVED our church and we trusted all the people in it.

Then a woman pastor came along, was threatened by our ministries, and cooked up lies about us. A tribunal was convened, people who had never even met us testified against us, we were ousted from the church, and spurned by our former friends.

Yes, it was extremely hurtful. I had graphic, disgusting nightmares for a year about being stalked, tortured, and executed by my former friends. To this day, I have one daughter who still hasn’t recovered. I still get nervous among groups of Protestants, and I really don’t trust Catholics either, especially when they’re mean or call names. Flashbacks–you dig?

And the problem is, a LOT of Protestants are reporting stories like this of horrific events and situations in their own churches that have hurt them to the point of where they have lost their faith.

There is actually a book out called Exit Interviews, about Christians who have been hurt by their churches. You can only read a chapter every few days–it’s so heartbreaking. (BTW, the book is out of print–surprise! You have to find it on Ebay or some other online sales site.)

My parents-in-law left their childhood church and stayed away for 14 years after my FIL was accused (falsely) of sexual misconduct. They didn’t lose their faith totally, but it was definitely crippled.
  1. Lack of catechesis. You think it’s a problem in the Catholic Church?! It’s a million times worse in Protestant churches, especially evangelical churches!
Yes, it seems to Catholics that Protestants are always studying, attending seminars, classes, Sunday school, Bible studies, etc. But many times, these studies are very “man-based,” meaning that a certain well-known teacher writes the study or teaches the study, and a lot of the study is just “fluff” that the Christian already knows.

It is extremely rare to find an evangelical Protestant church that offers a class in “systematic theology.” It is almost impossible to find books in the Protestant book stores about doctrine, theology, and the basis for both. It is very unusual to hear a Protestant sermon about apologetics or doctrine or theology.

Much of the teaching that evangelicals receive is “needs-based.” Marriage, raising children, “Christian political world-view,” finances, recovery from divorce, 12-step addiction programs, entertainment and media in Christianity, worship/prayer/deeper life–THESE are the names of most of the Sunday School classes that you will find offered at most evangelical Protestant churches these days. Nothing too taxing for the brain!

And most of the books in the Protestant catalogs are about these topics, too, except for all the hundreds of fiction books that are now available to Protestant Christians! Just last night, I was in the Protestant bookstore looking for a copy of a Dobson book, and I remarked to my daughter, “What does it say about Christianity when more books on these shelves are FICTION than non-fiction?!”

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with needs-based teaching. But it means that many evangelical have absolutely NOTHING to defend their faith with, and one good attack by a knowledgeable atheist or Muslim or pagan is enough to knock the wind out of them, and TWO good attacks is sufficeint to knock them out of the ring and away from their faith.

Now what does all this have to do with Catholics accusing Protestants of “heresy?” Like I said in an earlier post, be careful. Yes, I believe that many Protestants are very fragile, and you don’t hit fragile people. That’s bullying.

A better approach would be to keep the four scenaria above in mind when you are dealing with Protestants. No matter how strong and assured they LOOK, you don’t know what’s in their hearts. It would be better to err on the side of kindness and charity, and to gently woo them into the Catholic Church rather than battering them with “the TRUTH” and then wondering why don’t wake up and listen. People who have been beaten up don’t generally get up, and sometimes, they die.
 
So honest, bottom line–what I’m getting at is this–if you don’t understand yourself exactly WHAT evangelical Protestants really believe and understand WHY they believe this, then how can you possibly call them heretics and accuse them of heresy?!
We’re required to learn the truth, not waste time studying false doctrine. Anything that contradicts the truth is a lie, simple enough. If we know the truth, we will easily recognize the lie. Protestants do not accept the Bible, they believe what they want to believe and use the Bible to justify whatever position they hold. No one on this planet has the time to learn their belief system because they are so divided it’s pathetic…to quote Luther “there are as many doctrines as there are heads.” Heretic is a word many find offensive, but Christ used rather strong language that the Pharisees - no doubt - found insulting. I myself wouldn’t refer to just any Protestant as a heretic…it was my understanding that the term applied to a Catholic who refused 1+ Church teachings… I would, however, say that they’re worshipping a false god, but that’s just my view of the situation.
 
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