What does Welfare abuse say about people and the effectiveness of the system?

[ManOnFire]

Back on October 4, 2010, the Los Angeles Times did an investigation into California’s welfare EBT debit cards. I find it ironic that I could not find the article on google. Here’s the LA Times website, articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/04/local/la-me-welfare-20101004.

"$69 million in California welfare money drawn out of state
Las Vegas tops the list with $11.8 million spent at casinos or taken from ATMs, but transactions in Hawaii, Miami, Guam and elsewhere also raise questions. Officials say budget cuts hinder investigations.
October 04, 2010|By Jack Dolan, Los Angeles Times
Reporting from Sacramento — More than $69 million in California welfare money, meant to help the needy pay their rent and clothe their children, has been spent or withdrawn outside the state in recent years, including millions in Las Vegas, hundreds of thousands in Hawaii and thousands on cruise ships sailing from Miami.

State-issued aid cards have been used at hotels, shops, restaurants, ATMs and other places in 49 other states, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Guam, according to data obtained by The Times from the California Department of Social Services. Las Vegas drew $11.8 million of the cash benefits, far more than any other destination. The money was accessed from January 2007 through May 2010."

This author actually criticizes the LA Times for telling the truth, “How dare they” style: bossip.com/292175/making-it-rain-on-welfare-californians-spent-69-million-in12006/:

“An L.A. Times investigation has put people playing the California welfare system on blast… and subsequently f*cked it up for everybody.
The article, released yesterday, showed that CalWorks EBT cards have been used outside of the state of California to pay for vacations, cruises and to withdraw money from casinos. To the tune of $69 Million dollars.”

As someone who was on welfare as a child and for whom the system worked 30 years ago, Questions:

1. Does anyone care about the truth anymore? Vegas? Hawaii? Cruises?
2. If it’s this easy to cheat, what motivation exists to get off the taxpayer dime? Why not stay this way?
3. Isn’t this giving a bad rap to people who really and truly need the help?
4. Do you think people feel justified in cheating? Or that it’s just easy to cheat the system?
5. The U.S. can not survive indefinitely with both record debt and egregious cheating. Will peolpe have the courage to stand for the truth? Or is the general public’s lack of understanding of capitalism going to end our democracy?

 

[agnes_therese]

1. Obviously CA doesn’t have many controls in place. But that’s to be expected; look at their overall financial situation.
2. I’m not sure what’s “ironic” about not finding it on google; I did a search for LA Times California welfare investigation, and it came right up.
3. As for the second article, it doesn’t sound “how dare they” to me; more like the author was just being flip.

 

[angelerulastiel]

You should see what people buy with the EBT cards even in state in grocery stores. I once saw a lady spend $46 on two birthday cakes (one tiny one and one probably 5lb cake) for a 1 year old. On welfare.

 

[Newbie2]

Questions:

1. Does anyone care about the truth anymore? Vegas? Hawaii? Cruises?

Not many in Government do.
2. If it’s this easy to cheat, what motivation exists to get off the taxpayer dime? Why not stay this way?

Indeed.

1. Isn’t this giving a bad rap to people who really and truly need the help?

Yep.

1. Do you think people feel justified in cheating? Or that it’s just easy to cheat the system?

Both. It’s easy as evidenced by how often its done. If people didn’t feel justified in doing it, it wouldn’t be called an “entitlement”. Many people feel they are owed a free ride.

1. The U.S. can not survive indefinitely with both record debt and egregious cheating. Will peolpe have the courage to stand for the truth? Or is the general public’s lack of understanding of capitalism going to end our democracy?

The tide seems to be turning away from politicians who support this sort of corruption and toward a more responsible government. I guess we’ll see…

 

[edwest2]

What does Wall Street say about the inability of greedy people to stop being greedy?

Savings & Loan scandal?
Enron, Global Crossing?
Credit Default Swaps and artificially raising home prices?

Sure, killing people is wrong and bad.

Sending the world into global depression? That’s gotta be right up there. Getting kicked out of your house after losing your job, and the rest of the world gets to pay the bill?

Greed and corruption are bad and wrong, but even Hollywood fell for it. “Greed is good.” Gordon Gecko, Wall Street.

You reap what you sow, expect for entities deemed “too big to fail.” At best, Wall Streeters got half their usual Christmas bonus in 2008. It probably bankrupted a few small countries, but hey.

Did you see those guys from Wall Street at the Senate hearings?

Peace,
Ed

 

[ManOnFire]

What does Wall Street say about the inability of greedy people to stop being greedy?

Savings & Loan scandal?
Enron, Global Crossing?
Credit Default Swaps and artificially raising home prices?

Sure, killing people is wrong and bad.

Sending the world into global depression? That’s gotta be right up there. Getting kicked out of your house after losing your job, and the rest of the world gets to pay the bill?

Greed and corruption are bad and wrong, but even Hollywood fell for it. “Greed is good.” Gordon Gecko, Wall Street.

You reap what you sow, expect for entities deemed “too big to fail.” At best, Wall Streeters got half their usual Christmas bonus in 2008. It probably bankrupted a few small countries, but hey.

Did you see those guys from Wall Street at the Senate hearings?

Peace,
Ed

Both systems would work just fine if the people in them would just tell the truth. It’s a shame that people push the envelope to where little lies get stretched into all out fraud. We just might ruin a good thing yet.

 

[ManOnFire]

FWIW, regarding the wealthy wall street crooks whose morals and priorities have gone so far astray, the joke is on them. They have the means and education to know what priorities bring long term depth and intensity to life, so not many would feel sorry for them if they still fail to see it. I pray for them, too. If the wealthy crooks are using the money to buy politicians, and therefore legislation, then that’s interfering with democracy, and is a much more serious problem.

But it’s painful to see people spending welfare EBT money in Vegas (entertainment industry), big screen TVs (entertainment industry), fancy clothes (fashion industry), instead of advancing their careers, education, or financial stability to help them climb up the ladder. It makes one wonder if the money is actually hurting them by taking them farther astray by their desire for more entertainment. Imagine: what started out with good intentions is actually ruining some people. If it’s going to be a money funnel for the entertainment and fashion industries at the taxpayers’ expense, then this raises serious ethical questions. Once word gets out that people are getting paid to cheat the system, more will join in until the problem becomes too large to fund, until our entire democracy could come crumbling down, and the greatest democracy that ever existed could end. This one could be a history-changer. It’s that whole money, free will, and values dynamic question again.

 

[edwest2]

FWIW, regarding the wealthy wall street crooks whose morals and priorities have gone so far astray, the joke is on them. They have the means and education to know what priorities bring long term depth and intensity to life, so not many would feel sorry for them if they still fail to see it. I pray for them, too. If the wealthy crooks are using the money to buy politicians, and therefore legislation, then that’s interfering with democracy, and is a much more serious problem.

But it’s painful to see people spending welfare EBT money in Vegas (entertainment industry), big screen TVs (entertainment industry), fancy clothes (fashion industry), instead of advancing their careers, education, or financial stability to help them climb up the ladder. It makes one wonder if the money is actually hurting them by taking them farther astray by their desire for more entertainment. Imagine: what started out with good intentions is actually ruining some people. If it’s going to be a money funnel for the entertainment and fashion industries at the taxpayers’ expense, then this raises serious ethical questions. Once word gets out that people are getting paid to cheat the system, more will join in until the problem becomes too large to fund, until our entire democracy could come crumbling down, and the greatest democracy that ever existed could end. This one could be a history-changer. It’s that whole money, free will, and values dynamic question again.

Cheating or working the system did not just happen recently. Very similar conditions existed prior to the last Depression. No, at the end of the day, these people know exactly what they’re doing. The only thing stopping them is the law, so, every now and then, they see what they can get away with.

Oh the word has gotten out.

I watched on TV as crooks stood in line in New York as people used their phone cards to make calls. The job of the crooks was to memorize the numbers and sell them to others. Also in New York, a guy was shown panhandling in busy traffic. He brought in decent money. I’m not saying don’t have compassion on the poor, it’s just that sometimes people think they can take advantage of others as opposed to bettering themselves. Need a few bucks? Panhandle for a few hours, buy a little to eat, and panhandle some more.

Peace,
Ed