what does your church teach about Predestination? I have Qs

[peeteyg]

God is author of time and stands within and outside of it. If he is author of Genesis and Revelation he has to know the past and future. He does know precisely what we will do in our lives. He has given us free will to decide as we will, but he also gives us grace which is a calling to sanctification. That is why I have said that it is difficult to hear the words god has placed in his prophets mouths.

When he says “many are called, but few are chosen” he can say this because we are all called but only some will be actively moved by the Holy Spirit and fewer still will persevere to the end. He knows who will ultimately persevere and those are the “Elect.” So from gods point of view he knows who the elect and chosen will be. He knew us before we were born and may even be talking to us in the future in heaven right now. The ones that persevere to the end will be the Chosen and the Elect ones.

Shaky, I agree with everything else you have said. We don’t have to spend alot of time talking about Revelation or the future. Jesus taught us everything we need to know in the Gospels. All we need to know concerning our salvation is clear to see and it resides in its fullness in the Catholic Church. God is not totally unknowable, he left us the bible, the church and the Holy Spirit to guide us to truth. There can only be one truth and that is Jesus Christ.

 

[distracted]

So what are you saying here… To be with Jesus is by Going into the catholic church at any time and spend time with him There. Like meeting him there only.

any time the Church is open… I talk to Jesus when outside the Church but its not he same… not even close… When i am with Him in the Church (new Ark of the Covenant…) i dont HAVE to talk to Him… He speaks to me… i dont have to say anything… In fact, it usually doesn’t even cross my mind to say antyhing… too busy listening… to what i really need to hear… not waht i think i need to hear… not what others seem to think i need to hear… but wht HE wants me to hear… and see…

I am a bit confused here.

I thought it was about communicating with the holy spirit in you
Or praying to God in heaven.
This is all i have been doing.

well, that’s good but… well, see the above…

.

Can you meet Jesus in a protestant church?

yes and no… I never was able to overcome certain sins until i came back to tthe Catholic Church… not that i ever officialy left… but i left as in didn’t go to mass for years and years… Ignorant… just didn’t know any better… thank God i do now…

Or can Jesus come into your bedroom?

presumably this is a rhetorical, possibly sarcastic question…?

I read somewhere in the bible when 2 or 3 gather in my name i will there with them.

all i can say is that there is nothing like being in the Real Presence… and what about someone like me, who virtually has no… “2 or 3” to gather with? I mean some of us have emotional issues… dont socialize much… etc… etc… Jesus loves us messed up people too… besides… praying w ith other believers is one thing… being in HIs actual, real , tangible presence is something else…

With predestination. It still means you are chosen before you are born.
Jacob and his descendants could not fail to be saved

this concept is TOTALLY unbiblical… I have read the entire Bible… there are numerous incidents where God did not seem to KNOW absolutely what any given person was going to choose… the right way or the wrong way… the psg about Ahab comes to mind… The prophet said to Ahab Thus saith the Lord… I am going to [do thus and so to you] because of your murder of Naboth… to get his land… and yet Ahab repented… so God didn’t do all that evil… but delayed the evil for the king’s son’s reign…

Esau and his descendants could not fail to be lost.

i fail to see how you conclude such a thing… unbiblical…

The only free will i Know is the permisable will of God you are Free to do what you Like
in the Lord. Like who to marry or what Job to do.etc

Even satan has no free will. only what God permits he can do.

i dont know if i get where you are coming from… your statements seem contradictory…

all i know is that if we are born for salvation or damnation… there was no need for jesus to come to earth and suffer like he did…

 

[shaky]

distracted:
God only knows who is LIKELY to persevere…

God made us “gods”… meaning we have freedom to choose to do whatever…

dont waste your time trying to convince me o/wise…

it wont work… my mind is made up

Hi distracted

OH yes WAKE up. Even Satan can not do whatever he wants only what God permits him to do. your free will and choosing has limits to Gods permissible will.
God has a direct will you can’t get past that.

You can’t go and kill somebody cold bloodily for no reason but for fun.
Even that you Know God will forgive you.

You Can’t turn your back on Christ and openly oppose him and really believe this.

 

[distracted]

God is author of time and stands within and outside of it. If he is author of Genesis and Revelation he has to know the past and future. He does know precisely what we will do in our lives. He has given us free will to decide as we will, but he also gives us grace which is a calling to sanctification. That is why I have said that it is difficult to hear the words god has placed in his prophets mouths.

st.

i have a logical mind… this is not logical…

.

 

[distracted]

God only knows who is LIKELY to persevere…

God made us “gods”… meaning we have freedom to choose to do whatever…

dont waste your time trying to convince me o/wise…

it wont work… my mind is made up

Hi distracted

OH yes WAKE up. Even Satan can not do whatever he wants only what God permits him to do. your free will and choosing has limits to Gods permissible will.
God has a direct will you can’t get past that.

You can’t go and kill somebody cold bloodily for no reason but for fun.
Even that you Know God will forgive you.

You Can’t turn your back on Christ and openly oppose him and really believe this.

huh??? what??? huh???

 

[distracted]

so a father says to his children:

My son (or daughter) whom i love so dearly…

you can choose ice cream or cake… either one you want… but you can’t have both.

But i already know which one you are going to choose, so I’ll just give you the ice cream… besides i don’t WANT you to want the cake anyhow… cuz i am the Boss d*** it… and what i say goes…



yeah… uh… that’s real logical…

 

[shaky]

Hi distracted

OH yes WAKE up. Even Satan can not do whatever he wants only what God permits him to do. your free will and choosing has limits to Gods permissible will.
God has a direct will you can’t get past that.

You can’t go and kill somebody cold bloodily for no reason but for fun.
Even that you Know God will forgive you.

You Can’t turn your back on Christ and openly oppose him and really believe this.

huh??? what??? huh???

what don’t you understand. can you go out mugging can you go out stealing. can you go
Go and sleep with somebody’s marriage partner on purpose. can you reject Christ on purpose and not believe him no more. NO you can’t Because you are a prisoner of Christ
a slave to righteousness.

A unbelievers can because They are captive to the devil.

 

[shaky]

so a father says to his children:

My son (or daughter) whom i love so dearly…

you can choose ice cream or cake… either one you want… but you can’t have both.

But i already know which one you are going to choose, so I’ll just give you the ice cream… besides i don’t WANT you to want the cake anyhow… cuz i am the Boss d*** it… and what i say goes…



yeah… uh… that’s real logical…

Yes you got a free will to do things in the Lord

 

[peeteyg]

Distracted,

God has Absolute Sovereignty. He willed everything into being. You cannot place a limit on gods fore-knowledge. He created us with free will knowing it would allow sin into the world so he allowed sin. In Genesis there is a passage callen the Proto-evangelium that speaks of the coming of christ. So God knew in Genesis that jesus would have to redeem mankind. The OT is full of knowledge of the NT. Revelation is full of exact knowledge of the Future that is yet to be. This is why many have problems with passages that show that people are chosen. The chosen are the ones who will ultimately persevere and end up in heaven. For catholics I would read the catechism and take a look at The Council of Trent 6th session concerning Catholic understanding of Predestination. That is about all I can teach on this subject. I would pray for guidance and understanding. I do know a Jehovahs Witness that says this on this subject: They teach that god could know our future but chooses not to. I reject this but it is what they teach concerning Predestination.

 

[shaky]

any time the Church is open… I talk to Jesus when outside the Church but its not he same… not even close… When i am with Him in the Church (new Ark of the Covenant…) i dont HAVE to talk to Him… He speaks to me… i dont have to say anything… In fact, it usually doesn’t even cross my mind to say antyhing… too busy listening… to what i really need to hear… not waht i think i need to hear… not what others seem to think i need to hear… but wht HE wants me to hear… and see…
well, that’s good but… well, see the above… yes and no… I never was able to overcome certain sins until i came back to tthe Catholic Church… not that i ever officialy left… but i left as in didn’t go to mass for years and years… Ignorant… just didn’t know any better… thank God i do now…
presumably this is a rhetorical, possibly sarcastic question…? all i can say is that there is nothing like being in the Real Presence… and what about someone like me, who virtually has no… “2 or 3” to gather with? I mean some of us have emotional issues… dont socialize much… etc… etc… Jesus loves us messed up people too… besides… praying w ith other believers is one thing… being in HIs actual, real , tangible presence is something else… this concept is TOTALLY unbiblical… I have read the entire Bible… there are numerous incidents where God did not seem to KNOW absolutely what any given person was going to choose… the right way or the wrong way… the psg about Ahab comes to mind… The prophet said to Ahab Thus saith the Lord… I am going to [do thus and so to you] because of your murder of Naboth… to get his land… and yet Ahab repented… so God didn’t do all that evil… but delayed the evil for the king’s son’s reign… i fail to see how you conclude such a thing… unbiblical…

i dont know if i get where you are coming from… your statements seem contradictory…

all i know is that if we are born for salvation or damnation… there was no need for jesus to come to earth and suffer like he did…

Hi distracted

I was not being sarcastic or rhetorical when i asked can Jesus come into the bedroom
Because somebody told me they have a meeting place to spend time with Jesus
That was finalcall07 on you tube.

Also Mary k Baxter said she had Jesus come into her bedroom 40 nights in a row
Have a Look what she has got to say about heaven and hell on you tube.

Jesus came to Earth to save his Lost sheep. I agree salvation should be for all whosoever.
But God Know before you are born.
Why did he say he hated Esua before he was born. I have read the story God new that he would sell his birthright for food. Jacob knew Esua was starving when he said give me your birth right and i will give you some food. Esua did not give it after he had eaten.
Later on in the story. Jacob told Lies and decieved his own father to steal the birthright
Does that tell you at times you are allowed to tell lies and not Sin white Lies for Gods purpose
What about the false prophet in reverlation This has been fore told that person is born
To be the false prophet.
I have met people that have said to me even if they met the real God on the other side.
The still would not believe in him.
What about the people in the church of Satan They hate the God of the bible they know he is real like us but openly reject him and put a cross on the Ground and stamp on it
renounceing Jesus christ.

lso when i mentioned about 2 or 3 people i was concerned because i Live on my own
And i have emotional Issues myself and dont socialise much my self.

                                           God bless
                                                      :)

 

[shaky]

Hi distracted

OH yes WAKE up. Even Satan can not do whatever he wants only what God permits him to do. your free will and choosing has limits to Gods permissible will.
God has a direct will you can’t get past that.

You can’t go and kill somebody cold bloodily for no reason but for fun.
Even that you Know God will forgive you.

You Can’t turn your back on Christ and openly oppose him and really believe this.

huh??? what??? huh???

Hi disracted sorry about saying wake up I did not mean to offend in any way i just have a way with words some time.
God with the help of the holy spirit has shown me that i need i bit of waking up myself
The holy spirit has shown me that salvation is open to everyone who wants to come to Jesus and truly repents and follows the truth. God does not purposely create some people
For hell and some for heaven Like Calvinist say. Its all for Gods good pleasure and purpose.
In reality he knows who are his and who are not.
But he does Know before they are born who is who with his foreknowledge its not his fault the way people are.
He seems to help people with grace that come to him and hardens those that that harden themselves First.
God only uses evil people for his purpose to make him self known and his power.
So if it was not Judes that betrayed Jesus God would have used somebody else
As for the false prophet God will use somebody at the time who is already evil who would not turn to God under any circumstances God knows who it will be. I think it is to do with there disposition.

I have been doing some serious studying with the history of the Roman catholic church
and it does seem to line up with what the holy spirit has been showing me.
Not only Apostle peter was one of the first to start the church But also the Apostle John
But i have seemed to come up with a slight problem. The Eastern Orthodox Church that i did not Know was also catholic.
Which one come first?
Why was there a split between the 2 churches East and west over doctrine?
Does it matter which Church you Join?
Are the 2 Churches condemning each other to hell?
I would be gratefull for any advice so i can make my mind up.

                                                 God bless 
                                                             Ron