What drives the WBC?

[HabemusFrancis]

You might have heard of the Westboro Baptist Church.

They are a fringe Calvinist group that pickets the funerals of dead soldiers, celebrities and music stars, declares that “God Hates Fags” and hates literally every other religion apart from their own.

They say they do all their obnoxious nonsense because they are “warning America” so that we stop living hideously and thus stop God from burning our entire country to the ground.

Part of me thinks they are sincerely religious ( in a really warped way) and part of me thinks they are just crazy, disturbed people who are looking for an excuse to cause pain.

What do you think?

 

[JerryZ]

That we are all fallen human nature in need of redeeming?
God knows I need it too Redeeming that is.

Pray for me.

Peace

 

[PietroPaolo]

Well, we (in America) are living in an increasingly disturbed society which needs warned, but b/c they are outside the Church and are forced to rely on their own guidance (rather than the H.Spirit guiding the Church) they end up taking ridiculous stances (like God Hates ANYONE). I think they are sincere, but sincerely mistaken. Then again, who knows, maybe they just like all the media attention (of course the MSM loves them, they make us all look like nuts!)

 

[Lord_Keynes]

Is this topic allowed?

Just wondering…I thought there was a moratorium on the topic of the WBC.

 

[drac16]

Well, the WBC more or less parrots what Fred Phelps says. I’m personally convinced that Fred Phelps is a repressed homosexual. I think most of the hate that he dishes out is the result of this ‘thing’ about him that, in spite of his best efforts to repress it, will not go away.

 

[AyJaySimon]

You might have heard of the Westboro Baptist Church.

They are a fringe Calvinist group that pickets the funerals of dead soldiers, celebrities and music stars, declares that “God Hates Fags” and hates literally every other religion apart from their own.

They say they do all their obnoxious nonsense because they are “warning America” so that we stop living hideously and thus stop God from burning our entire country to the ground.

Part of me thinks they are sincerely religious ( in a really warped way) and part of me thinks they are just crazy, disturbed people who are looking for an excuse to cause pain.

What do you think?

I think they read the Bible and believe it means exactly what it says.

 

[TomD123]

I think they read the Bible and believe it means exactly what it says.

Could you provide the quote from the Bible where it says that God hates those with same sex attraction?

I know you probably think you are one smart person ready to show how “cruel” the Bible really is as if we as Catholics have never thought about the hard passages in Scripture, what they mean, or what a good response to them might be. Don’t you have better things than troll around a Catholic sight offering insults like this?

 

[AyJaySimon]

Could you provide the quote from the Bible where it says that God hates those with same sex attraction?

I know you probably think you are one smart person ready to show how “cruel” the Bible really is as if we as Catholics have never thought about the hard passages in Scripture, what they mean, or what a good response to them might be. Don’t you have better things than troll around a Catholic sight offering insults like this?

Hard as it likely will be for you to accept, I was answering the question honestly. “What’s with the WBC?” Well, what’s “with” the WBC is that they’ve read the Bible and prefer not to waste time conjecturing an alternative meaning to Leviticus 18:22, or 20:13, or Romans 1:26 (to name just a few).

Without getting into which interpretation is “correct,” I would think you’d have to concede that the WBC subscribes to a plain-text reading of the Bible, and that this reading lends itself to just the sort of behavior we commonly see from them.

 

[rossum]

I think they read the Bible and believe it means exactly what it says.

I would put that as, “They read the Bible and believe it means exactly what Fred Phelps tells them it says.”

There is ample scope for interpretation in the Bible – witness the number of different Christian denominations. The WBC interpretation is driven by Fred Phelps and his own personal issues. He projects those issues onto the Bible and finds support there.

rossum

 

[AyJaySimon]

I would put that as, “They read the Bible and believe it means exactly what Fred Phelps tells them it says.”

There is ample scope for interpretation in the Bible – witness the number of different Christian denominations. The WBC interpretation is driven by Fred Phelps and his own personal issues. He projects those issues onto the Bible and finds support there.

rossum

Well, I’ll certainly grant you that the Bible leaves one with enough wiggle room that many coherent interpretations are possible. But I’m not at all convinced that Fred Phelps’s interpretation began with some pre-existing “issues” that were there long before he first picked up the Good Book. The Bible has much to say about sexual ethics, throughout both Testaments, and while most moderate and liberal Christians are loathe to admit this, the Bible’s most common and recurring edict in realm of sexual morality is its divisive view of homosexuality and homosexuals.

 

[TomD123]

Hard as it likely will be for you to accept, I was answering the question honestly. “What’s with the WBC?” Well, what’s “with” the WBC is that they’ve read the Bible and prefer not to waste time conjecturing an alternative meaning to Leviticus 18:22, or 20:13, or Romans 1:26 (to name just a few).

Without getting into which interpretation is “correct,” I would think you’d have to concede that the WBC subscribes to a plain-text reading of the Bible, and that this reading lends itself to just the sort of behavior we commonly see from them.

None of your examples answer my question: Where in the Bible does it say that God hates those with same sex attraction. Each of those calls homosexual activity detestable, which I would agree to, but what WBC says goes BEYOND this. So you haven’t answered the question.

I didn’t think you were deliberately lying in your answer, I don’t know what to think of someone who goes on a Catholic website to criticize Scripture like that

 

[AyJaySimon]

None of your examples answer my question: Where in the Bible does it say that God hates those with same sex attraction. Each of those calls homosexual activity detestable, which I would agree to, but what WBC says goes BEYOND this. So you haven’t answered the question.

I didn’t think you were deliberately lying in your answer, I don’t know what to think of someone who goes on a Catholic website to criticize Scripture like that

Whatever. You want a Bible verse that explicitly states that “God Hates F**s.” If all I could find was a Bible verse that said “God Hates Homosexuals,” you’d still say I ‘hadn’t answered your question.’

As I’ve said already, the Bible leaves you ample wiggle room to be a Peace and Tolerance type of Christian, without forcing you to pretend that killing your neighbors for imaginary crimes is actually an expression of Love. But some appear to find even that level of cognitive dissonance intolerable. And get quite irritated when people point it out to them.

And again, I didn’t show up here to criticize Scripture. I showed up here for whatever conversations I could find. And I found this one. If anything, your complaint is with the OP for asking a question that I knew the answer to.

 

[TomD123]

Whatever. You want a Bible verse that explicitly states that “God Hates F**s.” If all I could find was a Bible verse that said “God Hates Homosexuals,” you’d still say I ‘hadn’t answered your question.’

As I’ve said already, the Bible leaves you ample wiggle room to be a Peace and Tolerance type of Christian, without forcing you to pretend that killing your neighbors for imaginary crimes is actually an expression of Love. But some appear to find even that level of cognitive dissonance intolerable. And get quite irritated when people point it out to them.

And again, I didn’t show up here to criticize Scripture. I showed up here for whatever conversations I could find. And I found this one. If anything, your complaint is with the OP for asking a question that I knew the answer to.

No, I want a Bible verse where it says “God hates homosexuals” okay, what part of that do you not understand? You did not provide that quote. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says that. Never once did I say I wanted it to say “God hates F**s” Did I? If I did please point me to where I said that. If I did not say that, please take your comment back.

I wouldn’t be irritated if you showed some respect on a Catholic forum. Instead of offering an honest answer to my question and instead of asking honest questions, you give a subtle dig to the Bible on here. Then, you accuse the Church, and 95% of members on CAF of “cognitive dissonance.” That’s simply arrogant

 

[AyJaySimon]

No, I want a Bible verse where it says “God hates homosexuals” okay, what part of that do you not understand? You did not provide that quote. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says that. Never once did I say I wanted it to say “God hates F**s” Did I? If I did please point me to where I said that. If I did not say that, please take your comment back.

I wouldn’t be irritated if you showed some respect on a Catholic forum. Instead of offering an honest answer to my question and instead of asking honest questions, you give a subtle dig to the Bible on here. Then, you accuse the Church, and 95% of members on CAF of “cognitive dissonance.” That’s simply arrogant

True or false? Your position on this is: “God does not hate gay people. He just wants men who have sex with men (and women who have sex with women) to be killed.”

 

[Semangelof]

Well, the WBC more or less parrots what Fred Phelps says. I’m personally convinced that Fred Phelps is a repressed homosexual. I think most of the hate that he dishes out is the result of this ‘thing’ about him that, in spite of his best efforts to repress it, will not go away.

I get the same feeling.

 

[TomD123]

True or false? Your position on this is: “God does not hate gay people. He just wants men who have sex with men (and women who have sex with women) to be killed.”

I will answer your question after you answer mine above.

 

[rossum]

No, I want a Bible verse where it says “God hates homosexuals”

It is right next to the verse that says, “The Pope is the head of the One True Catholic Apostolic Church,” in those exact words.

The Bible has to be interpreted. Different people have different interpretations.

rossum

 

[AyJaySimon]

I will answer your question after you answer mine above.

Fair enough. “God hates homosexuals” does not appear in the Bible.

Your turn.

 

[TomD123]

True or false? Your position on this is: “God does not hate gay people. He just wants men who have sex with men (and women who have sex with women) to be killed.”

Fair enough. “God hates homosexuals” does not appear in the Bible.

Your turn.

Thank-you, that’s the point, it does not and the WBC is therefore going beyond what the Bible says, something which you denied at first.
Anyway, as for your question, here is the best answer I can give that is short: God loves everyone, meaning he desires what is best for them. Sexual activity which is by its nature closed to new life is sinful and leads people away from God. God therefore hates this kind of sexual activity. Those with the temptation to commit homosexual acts are not at fault of any sin. God loves them. Those who have committed any sins including this kind of sin God still loves but God does not love the sin. Those who repent will be forgiven.

The Scripture is God’s revelation but it is over the period of thousands of years in many languages by many authors from many different perspectives, writing styles, purposes, etc. It is an entire story of God reaching out to us. For this reason it needs to be interpreted by an authority. The Catholic Church is this authority. The Church does not and has not commanded the death penalty for active homosexuals. A lot of the OT is a gradual revelation of God from the Jew’s perspective emerging from paganism. Christ comes to fulfill and clarify the law. Through the Church, everything is presented to us today. The Church does not see that the Laws of Leviticus need be taken as literal and binding today…and as we see in St. John’s Gospel, Christ forgives the woman who was about to be executed, implying that the laws of Leviticus were no longer in effect.

More could be said. The point is this from a Catholic POV: Homosexual acts are sins. Those with same sex attraction are not committing sin. God loves all people because he wants all to go to heaven.

It is right next to the verse that says, “The Pope is the head of the One True Catholic Apostolic Church,” in those exact words.

The Bible has to be interpreted. Different people have different interpretations.

rossum

It doesn’t say that…but I never claimed that it did. Never where Catholics believers in sola scriptura

 

[Avdima]

What drives the WBC? Money

They provoke dumb people into assaulting them and then they sue. And they also sue cities that do not allow them to march/protest.

A family of lawyers, sad thing is Fred Phelps was a honorable civil rights attorney 40-50 years ago, helping African Americans in their fight for equal rights.