What early Popes during 7th/8th century said about Muhammed/Islam.

[dzheremi]

There is precious little available on this topic outside of academic circles, it seems. I can list here some titles, none of which I have ever actually read but which do come up on Worldcat (academic world library search engine):

N.A. Newman (Ed.) “The early Christian-Muslim dialogue : a collection of documents from the first three Islamic centuries, 632-900 A.D. : translations with commentary” (Interdisciplinary Biblical Research Institute, 1993)

Beaumont, Ivor Mark. “Christology in dialogue with Muslims : a critical analysis of Christian presentations of Christ for Muslims from the ninth and twentieth centuries”

Tamcke, Martin. “Christians and Muslims in dialogue in the Islamic Orient of the Middle Ages = Christlich-muslimische Gespräche im Mittelalter” (English Translation: Beirut : Orient-Institut ; Würzburg : Ergon Verlag in Kommission, 2007)

For anyone interested in something that sounds less like an academic conference paper, here the full text of the speech that sent some Muslims (who no doubt did not read it) into a violent frenzy: Pope Benedict XVI on faith and reason.

 

[Sam_777]

I don’t have any popes for you, but here’s St. Thomas Aquinas on Reasons for the Faith against Muslim Objections. It’s more a defense of Catholicism against Muslim objections than a critique of Islam itself.

Thank you daughter of Allah.

BTW,*** if*** a Pope had been caught marrying a very young girl, there would be no end of denials that the Papacy or the Church was morally compromised; another favourite response is that the Church’s credibility is not destroyed by the sins of any of its members, & that therefore, its message is still credible. Why is this reasoning not valid for others - such as Mohammed ?*** If*** he is a true prophet, then his personal failings can’t alter the authenticity of his vocation or of his message; they can obscure his credibility, but not destroy the validity of the message. If the message is not true, the argument based on his failings is not a good one to deploy: it proves too much, by disqualifying the Catholic message too.

:aok:

 

[sedonaman]

He was not a paedophile. - unless every Christian who married very young was a paedophile.​

Richard II …the Popes … priests … etc. did not claim to be God’s prophet.

 

[Agabriel]

So what, the truth should be told no matter what…

Thanks sedonaman.

Schnitz, you got that online?

Yeah, I agree with you Sam. Unfortunately, the Muslims are experts that they are victims if we do such a thing, the media will hone in on that, our politicians will all glom in on that and appease them, and… well, you get the drift.

But, the truth does need to be told. Just make sure it is backed up with references because it is a hard pill to swallow for so many until they (the ignorant) read their texts and it is in their face.

 

[SalomeBintullah]

Thank you daughter of Allah.

:aok:

No problem.

 

[NDN]

read this story , may be you never read it before

One night the Moslems met Prophet of Allah, Muhammad (saw). He was sad to hear that the Moslems were suffering from torture. So, he said to them:
There’s a just King in Habasha (Ethiopia). Immigrate to his country. Stay there till Allah drives away your worries.
The idea of immigration shone in the believers’ hearts as the sun shone to fill the earth with light and warmth.
our Master Prophet of Allah, Muhammad (saw) ordered his cousin Ja’far to lead a big group of Moslems to Habasha.

One day, the Quraishi leaders held a meeting in Darul Nadwa. They were thinking about a way to extinguish the light of Islam. Umayyah said:

[Abu Sufyan said:
[COLOR=“darkred”]what shall we do for those who escape from Makkah and go to Habasha?

Abu Jahal said:
We’ll bring them back.
How?
We’ll send our friend al-Najashy lots of gifts. So, he’ll accept our request.
Who will go?
We’ll send a clever man to negotiate with al-Najashy.
After several weeks, they decided to send a delegation to bring back the runaway persons.

In the morning, Amru bin al-*** and Amarah bin al-Waleed headed for the sea holding gifts to al-Najashy, the King of Habasha.

The delegates crossed the sea with a ship. They reached the land of Habasha. They came to the King’s palace.

Amru bin al-*** said to the guards of the palace:
We’re the Quraishi delegates holding gifts to the King.

Al-Najashy greeted the delegates and accepted the gifts of the Quraish. The priests received their gifts, too. The King asked them about the purpose of their visit.

The delegates said:
Some foolish persons have taken refuge in the land of Habasha. They’ve abandoned their fathers’ and grandfathers’ religion. They haven’t accepted the King’s religion. Rather; they’ve brought a new religion. Neither you nor we have known it. We, the Quraishi noblemen, have come to bring them back and to educate them.

The King of Habasha was just and wise man. So, he said:
How can I hand you the people who have chosen my country and asked me for help? But I’ll ask them some questions. If their thoughts are corrupt; if they are deviated, I’d hand them to you. Otherwise, I’d leave them to live in my country.

Al-Najashy sent for the immigrants. They came. Ja’far bin Abu Talib was in advance. They came into the palace and stood in front of the King.

The Habashian people bowed when they met the King. So the Habashian and the delegates bowed to the King. The Moslems did not bow; their heads remained high raised.

Al-Najashy asked the Moslems:
Why don’t you bow to me?

Ja’far answered:
We don’t bow to anyone but Allah.

The King said:
What do you mean?

Ja’far answered:
Your Majesty; the King, Allah has sent us an Apostle. The Apostle has ordered us not to bow to anyone but Allah. He has also ordered us to pray and to pay zakat.

Amru bin al-*** said evilly:
They’re breaking the King’s religion!

Al-Najashy asked him to keep silent; and asked Ja’far to go on. Ja’far politely said:
Your Majesty, the King, we were ignorant people. We worshipped the idols. We ate dead animals. We did bad actions and abandoned our relatives. We mistreated our neighbors. The strong oppressed the weak. So Allah has sent us an Apostle. We know his ancestors and his truthfulness. We know that he is pure and trustworthy So, he has invited us to worship the Only Allah. He has ordered us to avoid what we and our fathers had worshipped. He has ordered us to be truthful and to give the trusts to their owners. He has ordered us to visit our relatives, to be good neighbors, to stop bad actions and shedding blood. He has prevented us from atrocities, falsehood taking the orphan’s money and speaking evil of the married women. He has ordered us to worship Allah only and not to be polytheists. He has ordered us to pray, to give alms, and to fast.
Your majesty; the king, we’ve believed him and followed what he has brought from Allah. So, we’ve worshipped Allah only - we’re not polytheists.
But our people have aggressed against us. They’ve tortured us. They’ve prevented us from our religion to worship the idols again.
After they had persecuted us, we came to your country. We’ve preferred you to others. We want to live in your country. Thus, your majesty, the king, we ask you to treat us justly.

Al-Najashy said politely:
Have you anything of what your Prophet has brought?

Ja’far politely said:
Yes.​

–​

continue

Great read, although I don’t like the abrupt ending, I am hoping for a sequel. Pax Christi

 

[dzheremi]

He doesn’t tell you the epilogue, NDN, where the descendents of those people go on a rampage, led by Ahmed Gragn of Adal, which guts the Ethiopian Church and the society that had sheltered these first Muslims, forces 9 out of 10 people to convert to Islam (source: Teferra Haile-Selassie “The Ethiopian Revolution 1974-1991”, Kegan Paul International 1997), and generally does irreparable damage to the greatest kingdom in that part of the world at that time. These forced conversions are, in a very direct way, the reason why Ethiopia today has a strong Muslim majority, as among the Oromo (the largest single ethnic group in the country) the rate of Muslims to Christians has stayed roughly the same as was established following Gragn’s short lived regime.