What edition of the RSV-CE should I get

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For Christmas I want to get a new Bible. I decided on getting the RSV-CE because I’ve heard so many good things about it on this forum. But I don’t know which edition to get.

Pretty much I want to get it for reading, praying, and studying. By studying I mean highlighting, underlining, writing notes. I’m not necessarily looking for a “study Bible”. I decided I want a paperback Bible instead of leather bound or hardcover because it is cheaper and I’ll feel less guilty writing in it. I researched two editions that I’m looking at:

The Ignatius Holy Bible- The edition Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR uses on Sunday Night Live except paperback (Fr. Groeschel uses hardcover). And I just found a picture of Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ holding this Bible (in softcover)
amazon.com/Ignatius-Holy-Bible-Standard-Catholic/dp/089870491X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

The Ignatius Bible- I saw this edition at a Catholic bookstore and it seemed that the pages were thicker than the usual Bible pages which I like because it is better for writing.
amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Standard-Burgundy-Catholic/dp/0898708346/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

Which do you suggest? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks!
 
There are only two good full RSV-CEs out there. Make sure you get the RSV-2CE (SECOND Catholic Edition), and not the regular “RSV-CE”, like the one you linked to, unless it’s in the form of the heavily corrected and annotated 11-volume Navarre Bible ($500-650) which is almost a new translation in its own right as much as it’s an RSV-CE.

The “RSV-CE” is almost identical to the Protestant RSV 1971 edition in every way except for “Full of grace” at Lk 1:28 (the original RSV-CE was based off of the 1946 RSV NT, and the 1971 revision incorporated almost all of the “Catholic” changes in to the “regular” Protestant RSV - they weren’t “Catholic” at all, just less blatantly anti-Christian). It still uses archaic language to refer to God (and in this way it sneakily denies the divinity of Christ, as do all Protestant RSVs), and it still handles the OT in such a way as to be considered an outrage when it was released, to wit:

bible-researcher.com/rsv-bibsac.html - Read that before you get the RSV-CE, as every single criticism (and they are major - just read!) applies (as do they to the NAB/RE, REB, NJB, NRSV, and most modern translations - the RSV is considered “conservative” and “traditional” today, and was considered so radical as to be blasphemous 60 years ago). Less apply to the RSV-2CE, as some major prophecies were corrected. None apply to the OSB, DRC, KJV, NKJV, or Confraternity, and hardly any apply to the ESV or NASB.

Some important changes were made in the RSV-2CE, including the removal of archaic language so as that path for calling the divinity of Christ and the legitimacy of prophecy in to question, if even subconsciously - by calling “God” thou and “Jesus” - “not-God” - you - has been removed. The Psalms are still lousy, missing the Messianic implication of 16:10 and 2:11, the seed of Abraham prophecies are obscure, so on. The ESV has the best readable modern Psalms in good prosody. The OSB has the most literally accurate ones.


  1. *]The $500, 11-volume Navarre Bible, which, due to copious commentary and footnotes, is good, even though it is in the substandard RSV-CE translation.

    *]The regular RSV-2CE by Ignatius Press. I would recommend the leather, or at least hardcover, RSV-2CE by Ignatius (more durable, and they lay open in the hand, which paperbacks don’t, and the hardcover is about $4.50 more than the paperback, and the leather is only $5 more than the hardcover).

    And one that’s NT-only, and the best modern-language Catholic study Bible on the market:

    1. *]The RSV-2CE New Testament in the form of the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible New Testament, in paperback.

      Why did you decide against the Haydock? (I’m assuming the archaic language and size). But, even more so, why did you decide against the Orthodox Study Bible, which, unlike the RSV-2CE, has annotations, in both the Old and New Testaments, and, is, overall, more accurate, more literal, more reliable, and unabashedly Christological in it’s interpretation of the Old Testament, never shirking away from typology out of ecumenical concern or hyperskeptical modernism?

      I still recommend the OSB over and above the RSV-2CE, as the RSV-2CE is a lot like the NRSV you have, except cleaned up in a few of the “litmus test” places (Is 7:14, Dan 7:13, Lk 1:28) to be more Christian, and with the gender-inclusiveness removed. It’s too similar to be of excellent use when comparing verses, where as the OSB is from a completely different stream of translation philosophy (the NKJV), a different textual basis (a more reliable one for the NT), so on and so forth: it’s a good “compare and contrast” with what you already have, not to mention being one of the most excellent modern-language Bibles.

      For the NT, the notes in the RSV-2CE ICSBNT are better than the OSB, but there’s no ICSBOT out yet, and likely won’t be for 10 years. The translation in the OSB is better in both the Old and New Testaments (except for Sirach, which is better in the RSV-2CE, IMO) and the notes are excellent for a one-volume study edition, again, having possibly the best Old Testament notes on any Catholic-acceptable Bible in existence, except for the Haydock - the RSV-2CE has no notes at all on the OT (where they’re most needed, except for one or two strategically placed to “disprove” creationism), and unless you get the separate ICSBNT, has no NT notes either.

      An ideal solution seems to be a hardcover OSB for $20 (new) or $17 (used) on Amazon, and an softcover ICSBNT RSV-2CE for $15, all together about the price of one leather Bible, and one thousand times one thousand times as useful as a text-only edition.

      If I would recommend the “ultimate kit”, it would be the above plus a Haydock DRC, a NETS, and an ESV with Apocrypha (which has just about the best Old Testament in a popular current Bible translation, and, honestly, has a good NT, except for 1 Tim 3:15), or the NASB (except the NASB doesn’t come with the deuterocanon).
 
Those are both from Ignatius Press. The blue covered one is the first edition. The burgundy covered one is the second edition.

The 1st edition has very few (almost non-existent) footnotes and no chapter titles (those little bolded titles that make it easy for you to flip through and find where “Jesus Feeds the 5,000”, etc.).

The 2nd edition adds chapter titles. I can’t recall the difference in the footnotes (I don’t own it personally). It also cleans up some of the archaic language (like the “thees” and “thous”) to make it a bit more readable. The change is minimal, though. It makes me a tad uncomfortable to have a publishing company – even one that I trust, respect and admire – make editorial tweaks on a translation of Scripture. But that’s probably just a personal hang up.

I would probably recommend the 2nd edition just for the chapter titles. It makes it much easier to find stuff.

They also have the Study Bible for the New Testament (the Old Testament is still a work in progress). I would recommend picking that up some day, too. It’s quite well done. It is based on the 2nd edition.

God bless!
 
For Christmas I want to get a new Bible. I decided on getting the RSV-CE because I’ve heard so many good things about it on this forum. But I don’t know which edition to get.

Pretty much I want to get it for reading, praying, and studying. By studying I mean highlighting, underlining, writing notes. I’m not necessarily looking for a “study Bible”. I decided I want a paperback Bible instead of leather bound or hardcover because it is cheaper and I’ll feel less guilty writing in it. I researched two editions that I’m looking at:

The Ignatius Holy Bible- The edition Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR uses on Sunday Night Live except paperback (Fr. Groeschel uses hardcover). And I just found a picture of Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ holding this Bible (in softcover)
amazon.com/Ignatius-Holy-Bible-Standard-Catholic/dp/089870491X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

The Ignatius Bible- I saw this edition at a Catholic bookstore and it seemed that the pages were thicker than the usual Bible pages which I like because it is better for writing.
amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Standard-Burgundy-Catholic/dp/0898708346/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

Which do you suggest? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks!
I’d say, get both. However, instead of the one with the blue cover (which uses the somewhat unattractive 1960’s typesetting), get this better (IMO) edition instead:

From St. Benedict Press
amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Revised-Standard-Version/dp/1935302108/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322769228&sr=1-4

or from Oxford University Press (this particular one is rebranded by Ignatius but is the Oxford edition); this is leather bound but there may be a paperback version available as well.
amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Standard-Ignatius-Catholic/dp/1586172859/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322770153&sr=1-6

Both these (and the blue one) are the RSV Catholic Edition of 1966.

The second link you gave is the RSV Second Catholic Edition and removes the remaining archaic language and modifies the text in a few places to bring it more in line with the Nova Vulgata. You should have a copy of this one too. I know for a fact that this is also available in paperback, although I got the bonded leather one.
 
I have the blue RSV CE by Ignatius press and I happen to love the thees and the thou. Especially in the psalms! It just makes it that much more beautiful and poetic when reciting them to God.

Why do people want the English language to be dumbed down? The new translation of the Mass from Pope Benedict is so much more beautiful than the N.O.

I heard a certain higher up in our Archdiocese criticizing the new translation, saying something like the words that are archaic might be too hard to understand for some. Um, can’t they look up the meaning if they don’t understand?
 
I have the Ignatius 2nd Edition, the second link you gave (but hardback), and actually like that more than my NAB. I also have the Ignatius press study bible (NT only) and I must say it is very neat. Probably as much footnotes as scripture. They are working through the OT and I think they have Genesis done, which you can get as a stand alone book.

If fact I was using the study bible (paperback) so much that I got a leather one as I feel they hold up better. I’ve probably given about 1/2 dozen of the paperbacks away to different people hoping they like it as much as I do.
 
I have the blue RSV CE by Ignatius press and I happen to love the thees and the thou. Especially in the psalms! It just makes it that much more beautiful and poetic when reciting them to God.
My favorite translation is the DRC, which is full of thees and thous. My second favorite translation is the Confraternity, which has almost as much archaic verbiage. My third favorite is the KJV - ditto.

The problem isn’t with the archaic English, it’s with using it as an indicator of divinity, and then consistently failing to use it in Messianic prophecies in the OT and in references to Jesus in the NT, consciously and subconsciously undermining the divinity of Jesus, and the belief in that divinity, necessary to our salvation, in the reader. The same problem is found if references to the deity in third-person pronoun are capitalized, but capitalized inconsistently - it has nothing to do with the “thees” and “thous”, or the “Yous” and “Hes” instead of the “yous” and “hes”: it has to do with inconsistency with severe doctrinal implications, and the obvious heresy or dishonesty of the translators that shines through in such a case. (Although I don’t like the capitalized Yous and Hes - it seems disruptive and is almost as bad as reading all capitals, to me - the Bibles that employ them consistently - the NASB and NKJV - do so [mostly: i.e. the “Scepter and Star” prophecy isn’t capitalized in the old NASB, probably just oversight - all of the other prophecies are] consistently, without undermining belief in or obscuring prophecy, or implicitly denying the deity of Jesus.)

The RSV should say, when Peter confesses his faith, “Thou art the Son of God”, not “you are the son of God”, and should have the “thees” and “thous” in Is 7:14, 9:5, Ps 2, Ps 22, Ps 16:10, etc., etc.

If they can’t get their Deity-referencing system straightened out, it’s better they do away with it all together, and either use Jacobean verbiage all the time, or none of the time.

In any case, thank God you don’t have to suffer through the NAB/RE, the worst non-Jehovah’s Witness translation produced.
 
I was strongly considering the OSB. Ultimately though two factors helped make the decision. One is format and the second is translation wise.

As far as translation goes, I like that the OSB is based on the Septuagint, however, I would like the translation that I use to be similar to the ones others use. From what I’ve heard, the OT would be a little too different for when a group of us are reading together. Also, I would concentrate on the NT first, and the OSB NT is the NKJV (which I have two of).

As for format, I’m really not looking for a study Bible, mainly the text with a few footnotes here and there. I would be concentrating on the text mostly. Also, the paper would be too thin for what I want. I would like to highlight, underline, and write notes.
 
My favorite translation is the DRC, which is full of thees and thous. My second favorite translation is the Confraternity, which has almost as much archaic verbiage. My third favorite is the KJV - ditto.

The problem isn’t with the archaic English, it’s with using it as an indicator of divinity, and then consistently failing to use it in Messianic prophecies in the OT and in references to Jesus in the NT, consciously and subconsciously undermining the divinity of Jesus, and the belief in that divinity, necessary to our salvation, in the reader. The same problem is found if references to the deity in third-person pronoun are capitalized, but capitalized inconsistently - it has nothing to do with the “thees” and “thous”, or the “Yous” and “Hes” instead of the “yous” and “hes”: it has to do with inconsistency with severe doctrinal implications, and the obvious heresy or dishonesty of the translators that shines through in such a case. (Although I don’t like the capitalized Yous and Hes - it seems disruptive and is almost as bad as reading all capitals, to me - the Bibles that employ them consistently - the NASB and NKJV - do so [mostly: i.e. the “Scepter and Star” prophecy isn’t capitalized in the old NASB, probably just oversight - all of the other prophecies are] consistently, without undermining belief in or obscuring prophecy, or implicitly denying the deity of Jesus.)

The RSV should say, when Peter confesses his faith, “Thou art the Son of God”, not “you are the son of God”, and should have the “thees” and “thous” in Is 7:14, 9:5, Ps 2, Ps 22, Ps 16:10, etc., etc.

If they can’t get their Deity-referencing system straightened out, it’s better they do away with it all together, and either use Jacobean verbiage all the time, or none of the time.

In any case, thank God you don’t have to suffer through the NAB/RE, the worst non-Jehovah’s Witness translation produced.
Thank you for explaining this to me. Where can I get the DRC version?
 
The problem isn’t with the archaic English, it’s with using it as an indicator of divinity, and then consistently failing to use it in Messianic prophecies in the OT and in references to Jesus in the NT, consciously and subconsciously undermining the divinity of Jesus, and the belief in that divinity, necessary to our salvation, in the reader…

The RSV should say, when Peter confesses his faith, “Thou art the Son of God”, not “you are the son of God”, and should have the “thees” and “thous” in Is 7:14, 9:5, Ps 2, Ps 22, Ps 16:10, etc., etc.
I see your point, but it seems to me that they are simply recording the perspectives of the biblical characters. The Apostles didn’t necessarily have a full understanding of Trinitarinan theology as we understand it today - especially before the Resurrection - so it could be a bit presumptuous to have them speak of Jesus as God.
 
RSV-2CE would be my choice; easy to read yet dignified and like you said the paper is a little thicker 👍
 
Also, the paper would be too thin for what I want. I would like to highlight, underline, and write notes.
They do sell special highlighters for use on the thinner pages that most Bibles have. Just do a search for “Bible highlighter”. It’s hard to find a Bible with really thick pages that isn’t also gigantic.
 
Thank you for explaining this to me. Where can I get the DRC version?
Anywhere that sells Catholic Bibles.

Search for “Douay-Rheims” on Amazon. All modern “Douay-Rheims” sold are DRCs (Challoner revisions), or are listed as “Douay-Confraternity”, which is the CCD revision of the DRC.

The “Haydock Bible” is the best example of the DRC for two reasons: format (much larger print than most DRCs, which uniformly have very small print), quality (normal high-quality paper, not Bible paper) and an abundance of notes (usually 1/2 to 2/3 of the page, in very small typeface). It would be 3600+ pages if bound in normal Bible size: it comes in a massive 1-volume hardback edition (about $115), and a 2-volume softcover edition (about $15 each in “used - very good” or “like new”), which is still massive, but easier to use. It also comes with some nice traditional supplements, introductions, etc., including a 200-page woodcut-illustrated Bible Dictionary, and a 60-page history of the Bible.

Salesian: if you’re looking mainly to compare and read New Testaments, save yourself some money and just get the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible New Testament. It’s the full RSV-2CE NT with many excellent study notes and 200 pages worth of concordance and doctrinal index (it’s worth it for the concordance if nothing else, which is invaluable for study and comparison: don’t write the notes and score of articles off until you’ve at least seen them, as the articles are invaluable for a beginner [that is, someone who’s not read the entirety of the *New Jerome Commentary or something similar, and also conservative rebuttals thereof] even if you don’t use the notes; they present most positions on dating, authorship, etc. fairly and impartially, and also present most of the different resolutions for seeming problems in the text, such as the dating of the Last Supper, etc.). There’s no reason to get the full text-only edition, as (being text-only) it doesn’t have notes, if you’re reading the OT, and I can’t recommend large parts of any RSV, -2CE or not, OT (especially Psalms, the Patriarchal History, and almost every Prophetic passage elsewhere except for the “litmus test” ones, which were brought in line in order to please conservatives on first sight) in any case, unless it had many notes to correct the poor renderings (as is the case in the Navarre Bible). However, the rendering of Sirach in the RSV-2CE is excellent.

The New Testament is very good, with only a few of the passages (2 Cor 10:2, Acts 14:23) translating “presbyter” as “elder” instead of “priest”. Just, whenever you read “elder” or “overseer”, replace it with “priest” and “bishop” respectively in your mind.

The footnotes in the RSV-2CE, few and far between, always are used to cast doubt or deny traditional doctrines (such as a literal creation, the truth of prophecy, the accuracy of Biblical history, etc.), but are written in a more even tone than the NAB notes. The main difference being that the RSV-2CE has about 25-35 small footnotes total, written in a restrained manner (yet still undeniably biased), and the NAB is filled with blatant, in-your-face heresy to the tune of 50% of each page.

The OT in the OSB is usable in almost all places with other Bibles, except for in dating (the ancients in Genesis live longer in the LXX), and in a few places in Jeremiah and one of the Minor Prophets (and in Job, where the LXX is about 35% shorter, but I believe the MT-version of Job is retained in the OSB, as in the NETS, in italics). The only somewhat-difficult part is that the OSB numbers the verses straight through, not taking in to account the standard numbering of modern versions in OT versification (which omit many verses, so you’ll see skips on the page from verse 14 to verse 17, for example), so, if referencing by chapter and verse, the verse you’re looking for might be three or four in either direction, although almost always three or four earlier than the standard reference given (as it omits the verses omitted in the LXX and modern MT editions, without leaving verse numbers “open”: for example, in the RSV-2CE in Sirach, the verses go: 1:2-4, 6, 8-11… with 5 and 7 footnoted. In the OSB, those same verses are numbered 1:1-9. In the NETS, the verse numbers are given in agreement with modern versions).

The best OT around with the full canon in modern English is probably the ESV (it’s as good as the DRC and KJV in general, and better in some places, and worse in very few). The NETS has major problems in the rendering of the Psalms, stylistically (it puts everything in past tense), and has a dubious rendering of Gen 1:1-3, but, beyond a few concerns, is generally excellent, as the LXX, even when translated poorly, can’t be translated in such a way as to destroy prophecy, as the MT can (due to the nature of Hebrew, all that has to be done is a “conjectural emendation” of niqqud and one can turn “they’ve pierced my hands and feet” to “like lions…”, or mistranslate and say, “the Hebrew/vowel pointing on this line is uncertain/likely corrupt”, etc.).
 
Since I’m going to be concentrating mostly on NT and since I like Scott Hahn, I decided to get the ISB. I’m soo excited.

A few years ago I decided (I don’t know why), “I’m going to be an Evangelical.” So I became a protestant for a couple weeks (my religious conversions don’t last long). The only protestant I know lent me her NKJV Study Bible. The top half of the page was Scripture. The bottom half was footnotes. I fell in love with that Bible and that format. Ever since I’ve been wishing I could find a Catholic Bible like that. It seems like the ISB is the closest to it. I’ll admit, I’ve considered getting myself a copy of the study Bible she lent me.
 
Khalid;8640496

  • But, even more so, why did you decide against the Orthodox Study Bible, which, unlike the RSV-2CE, has annotations, in both the Old and New Testaments, and, is, overall, more accurate, more literal, more reliable, and unabashedly Christological in it’s interpretation of the Old Testament, never shirking away from typology out of ecumenical concern or hyperskeptical modernism?
    [/QUOTE]
    I have the OSB and one issue I think a RC considering it should be aware of is that the Introductions and a number of the footnotes are fairly anti-Rome. Along the lines of the Roman Catholics don’t understand/follow the right teaching of the Bible here - of course, that’s a hazard with any non-RC study bible.
 
That sounds very similar to the Ignatius Study Bible(ISB), though it is just NT. About half the page is scripture and the other half is notes. It does cross reference OT quite a bit, so you may want to get a RSV-2CE ‘regular’ bible for that.

Ignatius originally release a Gospel or set of Letters in individual booklets, then when all the NT was finished they released the ISB. It looks like they are starting to do the same thing with the OT. Genesis is already out, so probably in a few/several years they will have 2-3 volumes for the ISB OT.

I have liked the ISB so much that I’ve give out about 1/2 a dozen in paperback to various people who I thought might like them as well.
 
I have the OSB and one issue I think a RC considering it should be aware of is that the Introductions and a number of the footnotes are fairly anti-Rome. Along the lines of the Roman Catholics don’t understand/follow the right teaching of the Bible here - of course, that’s a hazard with any non-RC study bible.
However, it’s quite obvious, and thus easily avoided. Satan doesn’t come to the faithful and say, “Hey, go commit some mortal sins, so you can join me in Hell”: he uses deception and trickery, as he is the most clever and subtile of all creatures.

Reading the anti-Catholic doctrine in the OSB (which is concentrated in the introduction - which is of very limited * value, as it’s essentially a bad polemic against Rome, and a retelling of the story of the Schism in a legendary manner with the viewpoints reversed - and essays in the back, and in the note on Petrine supremacy) is obvious, and it’s not in the text itself. The translation and annotation are faithful to the deposit of the faith, both for Catholics and Orthodox (the fact that it uses St Augustine heavily is one indicator of that, as many Orthodox have a low view of him), except on the one verse in Matthew. It’s much more faithful and Christ-centered (especially in the OT) and, ironically, more in accordance with the mind of the Catholic Church, than any Catholic Bibles out there except for the ICSBNT (for the NT) and the Haydock Bible, and to a point the Navarre Bible.

The anti-Catholic doctrine in something like the NAB is much more subtle. It is both in the text, breaking connections between the Old Testament and the New, denying prophecy in an underhanded manner, etc. and in the annotation, although presented as “scholarly consensus” in line with the mind of the Church (granted that it has half a dozen imprimaturs and a Papal blessing) instead of speculation or conjecture, which, as I noted, is much more subtle and dangerous, due both to the desire of many for education or seeming education and the resultant weakness in the face of ad auctoritas argumentation, and also in the fact that it doesn’t make one recoil and say, “this is obviously anti-Catholic” at first sight, unless one is already somewhat acquainted with the Bible and the teaching of the Fathers and the Magisterium.*
 
The anti-Catholic doctrine in something like the NAB is much more subtle.
I’m confused by this. The NAB, New American Bible, is the version we use in Mass readings and is the one you can find online at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ site.

usccb.org/bible/

Did you mean something other than NAB?
 
I’m confused by this. The NAB, New American Bible, is the version we use in Mass readings and is the one you can find online at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ site.

usccb.org/bible/

Did you mean something other than NAB?
Some people really don’t like the NAB. 🤷

I think that there are legitimate critiques of the translation (and especially the footnotes and introductions), but it’s a bit extreme to call it “anti-Catholic”. If that were the case, we might as well accuse our bishops of being heretics.
 
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