What every Catholic should know?

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I wouldn’t sweat it, GrahamaPhone.

The internet has allowed the proliferation of anti-Catholic sites, many masquerading as ‘outreach to Catholics.’ The link you give brings us to a site which seems a tad more ‘gussied up’ than most, but it’s really no more than a garden variety ‘all answers are in the Bible and Catholics have it all wrong’ site.
  1. Among this site & others like it, I find it amusing - and indicative of the (low) level these folks operate at - that you basically can’t figure out who or what the site maintainers really are or how to find them. Are they a church? They don’t state. They make a big deal out of claiming tax exempt status, but that means absolutely nothing. They don’t appear to have a phone number. Their address is a PO Box. They claim their…director, founder, whatever (he isn’t specified) is a former priest – which is impossible to verify and even if accurate, so what? Under ‘who we are,’ they link to something called the Berean Beacon – once again, whatever that is (the Beacon site tells nothing about who they are or what they do).
  2. Do they quote out of context? Sure they do. Do they care? Probably not. Can their ‘theology’ stand up to intellectual heavyweights like Aquinas, Augustine, Albertus Magnus, etc.? I don’t think so, for the same reason you know as well as I do: They have no theology beyond their own interpretation of the Bible…and which version? Have they based their ‘interpretation’ on the original Greek texts? Or the KJ version? We can’t tell. We can tell that their web pages contain various misspellings, poor grammar, etc., which is sugestive of a lack of intelectual scrutiny. If their theology could stand up to intellectual heavyweights, the heavyweights would be on their side, not ours!
Although this site is annoying, there are IMHO bigger fish in the sea to worry about.

-VdT
I completely agree VdT!👍

Yeah I’ve seen that rubbish before. As he caught onto they do indeed twist the scriptures, but hey…the guy’s gotta make his living somehow, right?:rolleyes:

What every good Catholic should know is that that site is loaded with errant teaching that has no root farther back than the 16th century and is itself founded upon the unscriptural error of Sola Scriptura.

If you need help with anything specific bring it here to CAF and we can show you how to answer.
 
I am a protestant in the evangelical camp: Thank you for posting this. I am always looking for a site that is like this, anti-Catholic, in the hopes that we–all Christians together–can see the false statements (is it too strong to call them lies?) and band together to further the truth.

I could not find out who these people really are. I sent them an email basically telling them that they do no good service to the Reformist tradition. It never makes sense to try and convert fellow Christians…especially if you have to lie to do it.
 
I am a protestant in the evangelical camp: Thank you for posting this. I am always looking for a site that is like this, anti-Catholic, in the hopes that we–all Christians together–can see the false statements (is it too strong to call them lies?) and band together to further the truth.
Ingram - the fullness of Truth IS in the Catholic Church. So you can stop searching - and stay right here. 🙂
I could not find out who these people really are.
That is because they are lying cowards. Anyone who is being truthful with their content puts a name and a face to it. They never will because they KNOW in their hearts they are liars and deceivers.

~Liza
 
Ingram - the fullness of Truth IS in the Catholic Church. So you can stop searching - and stay right here. 🙂

That is because they are lying cowards. Anyone who is being truthful with their content puts a name and a face to it. They never will because they KNOW in their hearts they are liars and deceivers.

~Liza
The worse of all as that he claims to have the HS guiding him. what a blasphemy. that is the danger, so many people continue to claim to have the HS when speaking against the CC. an eye opener for us.
 
Wow, is that site really bad! That is why it is nice to have Catholic Answers around! Let’s all make a donation to Catholic Answers!
 
We Catholics have to get off our high horse and realize that these people have been misled. They need our prayers, not our derision. They truly think they’re doing “God’s service” by trying to convince us of the errors of our ways! 😉

I have a story I’ll tell at the end, but one book I highly recommend that everyone read if they are going to try and refute the anti-Catholics is Stephen Ray’s “Crossing The Tiber.” In it he goes into great detail showing how the earliest Christians believed that the bread and wine was truly the Body and Blood of Christ. He has copious footnotes on each page quoting men like Iraneous, Eusebius and Justin Martyr who lived in the first couple of centuries. “Crossing the Tiber” also goes into Infant Baptism, again using copious notations from the first Christians. His follow up-book,* “Upon This Rock,”* does the same thing by showing that Peter and the idea of a “pope” were most definitely in use by the earliest churches. Both of these books will give you direct passages you can quote when you are up against someone who likes to throw out that it wasn’t until some Council that the Church started to believe in a particular concept.

Speaking of that argument, here is an easy refutation that I have used many times. We know that with few exceptions the Councils did not initiate a belief, but rather confirmed a belief. Think of today. We all know that marriage has always been between a man and a woman, yet there are forces which are trying to redefine marriage. About 39 states have now declared through their own voters that marriage is between a man and a woman. Fast forward a few hundred years. If someone looks at the laws which were passed at the turn of this century, they can easily come away with the belief that prior to the early 2000’s Americans believed that marriage was open to men and men or women and women because it didn’t become law until then. :eek:

The same thing with the Protestants and their misunderstanding of what went on in the Councils. Just because it’s written in a Council that such-and-such is the belief of the Catholic Church does not mean that it hadn’t been that belief before then. As we know, typically there was a schismatic group trying to stir the pudding and the Council merely reiterated what had been our belief all along so as to reinforce it, not introduce it.

Now to my story. Around the turn of the century (boy, that makes me feel old) I had been deeply involved in internet apologetics. The site was Catholic and very active. We constantly had people enter the site to cause trouble, usually throwing out a very typical sentence like “Why do Catholics worship Mary?” or “Jesus had brothers.” There was a cohort of apologists who would tag-team answers as these people often opened up new threads all over the site simultaneously in order to get everyone into a lather. They would be antagonistic and derogatory in their tone. While we would try to keep things civil, there were times when the person just had to be banned.

Well, we had a guy named Tom. He did all of the above and then would re-appear as a new name within days. We’d quickly figure out it was him simply because his sentence structure was pretty unmistakable. He’d get banned again and again, each time trying to come in and prove that Catholics were going to hell because he had all the answers and he was called by God to save us.

I left the apologetics site mainly because my business kept me too busy to keep up with it. Well, four years after I left I received an email from this man Tom. He sent one to each of us who sparred with him back then, telling us that he was joining the Catholic Church! He thanked us for our kind and considerate posts, acknowledging that he had been extremely rude and egotistical in his approach. It was our very kindness and desire to hear him out (so long as he could behave :rolleyes:) that kept him coming back. He had decided to take us up on our constant admonishment to do his own homework rather than relying on information passed on by anti-Catholics that finally made him realize the error of his ways.

The bottom line is that these people who are so passionate often can be reached the best. They truly love God with all their heart and believe that what they are doing is God’s Will. Engage them, but insist that they stick to one question at a time rather than allowing them to send you on a constant rabbit chase. Have books that are not going to bash Protestants that you can readily refer them to. They aren’t going to take any stock in things like the Catechism, so be ready to do battle with Scripture verses that counter the ones they use. You may not win them over but it will do several good things – it will help you hone your skills so that you can quickly and easily quote Scripture and it will help others who read your posts to understand more and learn themselves. You never know who you can influence!

Scott Hahn said it best when he said “Proof text taken out of context is nothing more than a pretext.”:amen:
 
I believe you are people of good will. I urge you to study the Bible with an eye to the truth and you will be led to the Church that Jesus (not Luther, or Knox or Calvin) founded and we will be glad to have you back home.

No, I have been content following Luther, Knox and Calvin away from Rome and its coming judgments
This is the one part of the reply received that I find most puzzling. So which one of these 3 men does the replier (which Mike put in red) follow when it comes to the Eucharist? I shall quote from the wikipedia:

Martin Luther
*Luther held that “It is not the doctrine of transubstantiation which is to be believed, but simply that Christ really is present at the eucharist”. --snip-- What Luther thus called a “sacramental union” is often called consubstantiation by non-Lutherans.
In “On the Babylonian Captivity” Luther upheld belief in the Real Presence of Jesus and in his 1523 treatise The Adoration of the Sacrament defended adoration of the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist.
*

**Huldrych Zwingli **
*taught that the sacrament is purely symbolic and memorial in character, arguing that this was the meaning of Jesus’ instruction: “Do this in remembrance of me”.
*

John Knox
The Presbyterians hold that Christ is spiritually present in the Bread and Wine and we do share the body and blood of the Lord spiritually.

Hmmm – all three can’t be right. No wonder there are all those protestant denominations, answerable only unto themselves.

God bless

Tony
 
I have never really explored this website, but I have found countless others. Once I found a similar website, though much more expanded. I sent the fellow in charge of the site an e-mail with biblical evidence for things like the Eucharist (such as in the first e-mail mentioned in this thread) and for Old Testament typology for Mary. I had some friends read over my e-mail before I sent it out of fear that I might be a little rude; they said I was not, so I went ahead and sent the e-mail.

The runner of the site sent me an approximately 3 sentence response that was something along the lines of “I have already addressed these concerns on my website, please read further in the apologetics section if you are interested.” though not exactly those words. Then he signed me up for his gospel e-newsletter. -_-

The thing I learned from the whole ordeal is that blind prejudice exists - on both sides, protestant and catholic. I’m not a protestant, nor do I desire to be such, but that doesn’t mean I won’t listen when a protestant explains their viewpoint to me, no matter how much I may disagree, and I expect the same to be done with me. As my grandpa used to say “Its ignorant to argue with ignorance.”
 
(Edited)

There are those people in every group who are not exemplary of that group, and that site is one of them.

One of the best apologetics studies I have found is from San Juan Catholic Seminars and it’s very reasonably priced.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
Posts have been edited and/or deleted due to a Banned Topics violation.

Please do not post private message content or e-mail content to threads.
Thank you.
 
One thing that gave me a chuckle on this website is their very careful use of Matthew 7 in the “About Us” section of the site. They start at verse 22 which conveniently leaves out verse 21 which, of course, promotes the Catholic view of salvation . . . but what are you going to do? 🤷
 
I sent them the following email
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:44 PM
Subject: What you need to know
Just a couple points.
The fact is that for the first 1500 years of Christianity there was NO CONTROVERSY over this belief.
This is not true. Every controversy was successfully put down by the Catholic but there were controversies non-the-less.
but I am sure you never even got this far in the email.
I know that this site, and others like it, can stir one’s ire but it is not a good idea to say things like this. There is a chance that the audience was actually reading this e-mail receptively and then got turned off when they read this.
There are 39,000 protestant denominations
You are aware that this number comes for a disreputable source which separates denominations almost arbitrarily right? The audience for this e-mail might just know that. And, they might through back that the source you’re using states there are almost 300 Catholic denominations. I would recommend avoiding statements which enumerate the number of Protestant denominations. If you really feel the need to through this in, when it really has nothing to do with the point of your e-mail, then just say thousands.
 
Don’t be too impressed - these places have catalogs of pre-worded responses that they cut and paste together to regurgitate back at you. There is no scholarship there.

Good for you though for trying to tell them the Truth. They have been told, and on their last day they will be held accountable on what they have done with that knowledge.

~Liza
I am using diplomacy with them…diplomacy means
  1. doing and saying the nastiest things in the nicest way -or-
  2. Telling someone to go to hades and have them be happy that you invited them! 🙂
I really believe that we Catholics are targets of the devil because he knows that he has to defeat the Church the Christ founded if he is going to win. We know, and we are joyful because these attacks mean he is afraid of the Church and we know that Jesus promised us that the kingdom of evil will not prevail against us.

I wrote what I did to plant a seed in “Greg’s” mind, if that is his real name. I trust that God will water this seed and allow it to grow and maybe if this person is a real runaway Catholic, then maybe someday he will come home.

Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it.
 
Just a couple points.

This is not true. Every controversy was successfully put down by the Catholic but there were controversies non-the-less.

I know that this site, and others like it, can stir one’s ire but it is not a good idea to say things like this. There is a chance that the audience was actually reading this e-mail receptively and then got turned off when they read this.

You are aware that this number comes for a disreputable source which separates denominations almost arbitrarily right? The audience for this e-mail might just know that. And, they might through back that the source you’re using states there are almost 300 Catholic denominations. I would recommend avoiding statements which enumerate the number of Protestant denominations. If you really feel the need to through this in, when it really has nothing to do with the point of your e-mail, then just say thousands.
Thank you for the above, use any number you feel appropriate. The moment the Church was torn asunder by Martin Luther we had too many. Do not confuse the rites of the Catholic Church with denominations. I don’t know how many rites there are, you say 300 (okay) as long as each of them is in communion with the Pope, they still form one, holy catholic and apostolic Church.
 
… And, they might through back that the source you’re using states there are almost 300 Catholic denominations. I would recommend avoiding statements which enumerate the number of Protestant denominations. If you really feel the need to through this in, when it really has nothing to do with the point of your e-mail, then just say thousands…
The first time I read through this thread I did not have time to go read all of the links, but went back and did so later. One of the links recommended in the reply e-mail from the people at “what every catholic should know” sent one to an explanation of the 30,000 protestant denominations and made this claim bolded above, that there are 300 Catholic denominations. That idea creates a black hole in my head - its like dividing by zero. By simple definition and logic, if one is a faithful follower of Jesus Christ and loyal to the Holy See, then one is Catholic. If not, then said person is not Catholic. This does not leave room for denominations.

This begs my question - where does the idea that there are 300 Catholic denominations coming from? Does this idea come from perhaps and misunderstanding of the different rites? Or is it just completely falsified (which is an option I’m not particularly fond of; if there are mistakes, then it is usually because there is a misunderstanding, whether it be on my part or the authors.) Any ideas?
 
I am using diplomacy with them…diplomacy means
  1. doing and saying the nastiest things in the nicest way -or-
  2. Telling someone to go to hades and have them be happy that you invited them! 🙂
I really believe that we Catholics are targets of the devil because he knows that he has to defeat the Church the Christ founded if he is going to win. We know, and we are joyful because these attacks mean he is afraid of the Church and we know that Jesus promised us that the kingdom of evil will not prevail against us.

I wrote what I did to plant a seed in “Greg’s” mind, if that is his real name. I trust that God will water this seed and allow it to grow and maybe if this person is a real runaway Catholic, then maybe someday he will come home.
That’s a definition of “diplomacy” that I’ve never seen before! 😃

There is no doubt that the Catholic Church has been under attack since it’s very beginning. It didn’t start with Martin Luther.

The problem with trying to goad others is that it lacks all signs of Christian humility and prudence. Why would anyone be enticed to come over to “our” side of the fence with this tactic? It only makes them more confident of our obstinacy. Rather than “planting a seed,” your words are more akin to tossing a flame onto gasoline. :knight2:

If your goal is to convince them that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church, then take one subject at a time and provide them with a calm and reasonable argument. If your goal is to engage a knock-down, drag-out verbal game of one-upmanship, then I would ask you to consider that this is just as abominable to God as this other person’s anti-Catholic rants. We must hold to the truths we know, but how we deliver them will have consequences that we will have to answer for at our own death. :gopray2:
 
Just a couple points.

This is not true. Every controversy was successfully put down by the Catholic but there were controversies non-the-less.

Some were controversies, Some were heresies, and Some were outright attacks against Christianity. In the end though, you can not deny that the Catholic Church was faithfully protecting and preserving the Christian faith as Christ would want us to do.

I know that this site, and others like it, can stir one’s ire but it is not a good idea to say things like this. There is a chance that the audience was actually reading this e-mail receptively and then got turned off when they read this.

**Sites like these do stir one’s ire because of the blatant lies and falsehoods. They call themselves Christians and then take the Holy words of our Lord and Savior and twist and pervert them to attack a Christian Church. How Christian is that? I am at loss here,why wouldn’t you want someone to expose lies and falsehoods? Please tell me you would want us to just turn a blind eye to this? If I have misinterpreted your thoughts here then I apologize. Peace. **

You are aware that this number comes for a disreputable source which separates denominations almost arbitrarily right? The audience for this e-mail might just know that. And, they might through back that the source you’re using states there are almost 300 Catholic denominations. I would recommend avoiding statements which enumerate the number of Protestant denominations. If you really feel the need to through this in, when it really has nothing to do with the point of your e-mail, then just say thousands.
 
That’s a definition of “diplomacy” that I’ve never seen before! 😃

There is no doubt that the Catholic Church has been under attack since it’s very beginning. It didn’t start with Martin Luther.

The problem with trying to goad others is that it lacks all signs of Christian humility and prudence. Why would anyone be enticed to come over to “our” side of the fence with this tactic? It only makes them more confident of our obstinacy. Rather than “planting a seed,” your words are more akin to tossing a flame onto gasoline. :knight2:

If your goal is to convince them that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church, then take one subject at a time and provide them with a calm and reasonable argument. If your goal is to engage a knock-down, drag-out verbal game of one-upmanship, then I would ask you to consider that this is just as abominable to God as this other person’s anti-Catholic rants. We must hold to the truths we know, but how we deliver them will have consequences that we will have to answer for at our own death. :gopray2:
Thank you for the above. Appreciate your comments. (I am not using diplomacy here) I am not going to continue the dialogue with them. To try and convince them of anything would be a very difficult if not imposible task for me or anyone. I do not think I was rude, nasty or evil. I answered their information gently and said I just don’t think that the arguments that they made were valid. I also did not invite further correspondence from them by using a “closed” closing and in the unlikely event that they do respond further, I will delete the email. The seed I planted may or may not flourish as God desires. Again thank you for your comments, I appreciate them and will keep them in mind.
 
Thank you for the above, use any number you feel appropriate. The moment the Church was torn asunder by Martin Luther we had too many. Do not confuse the rites of the Catholic Church with denominations. I don’t know how many rites there are, you say 300 (okay) as long as each of them is in communion with the Pope, they still form one, holy catholic and apostolic Church.
Did you read my post? I never said there were Catholic denominations and I never confused denominations and Rites. I simply pointed out that the source which claims there are over 39,000 Protestant denominations also claims there are over 300 Catholic denominations. I was talking of your source, I wasn’t saying anything for myself. Additionally – it’s something like 26 Rites in full communion with Rome.
 
The first time I read through this thread I did not have time to go read all of the links, but went back and did so later. One of the links recommended in the reply e-mail from the people at “what every catholic should know” sent one to an explanation of the 30,000 protestant denominations and made this claim bolded above, that there are 300 Catholic denominations. That idea creates a black hole in my head - its like dividing by zero. By simple definition and logic, if one is a faithful follower of Jesus Christ and loyal to the Holy See, then one is Catholic. If not, then said person is not Catholic. This does not leave room for denominations.

This begs my question - where does the idea that there are 300 Catholic denominations coming from? Does this idea come from perhaps and misunderstanding of the different rites? Or is it just completely falsified (which is an option I’m not particularly fond of; if there are mistakes, then it is usually because there is a misunderstanding, whether it be on my part or the authors.) Any ideas?
The source which came up with the 39,000+ number that Catholics like to throw around applied the same, exact, metrics it used to come up with that number to the Catholic Church and came up with over 300 Catholic denominations. Hence, my original statement that this number comes from a disreputable source which almost arbitrarily determines what a denomination is. Why is it that everytime I point this out to Catholics they want to tell me that my number is wrong but continue to use theirs? I am simply pointing out that the 39,000 number is not trustworthy and demonstrating this by using the 300 number which we all know is wrong.
 
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