What exactly does "Traditional Catholicism" mean?

[porthos11]

Someone who believes that the Tridentine Mass (Latin Rite) is the true Catholic Mass, and that the Novus Ordo Mass is not legitimate.

Some go so far as to say that if someone attends a Novus Ordo Mass and receives the Eucharist, he or she is committing a sin. I’ve heard them say that if you can’t find a Latin Mass near you, you are better off not going to Mass at all. Personally, I think this is really a tad extreme, to say that no Mass is better than a Novus Ordo Mass. They consider Paul VI and every Pope since him as an “anti-pope,” so therefore there are extremely few legitimate priests in the world because anybody ordained since Vatican II is not legitimate (since the pope wasn’t legitimate, all the bishops aren’t legitimate, so they couldn’t legitimately ordain anybody), and relate all this to our being in the Last Days.

Nah, these are sedevacantists. Traditional Catholics are not sedevacantists. They recognize the Pope and the local bishop and the Ordinary Form has valid (although they wouldn’t speak of it in glowing terms and would extol the Extraordinary Form as “superior” to it).

The converse is also true. Sedevacantists are not Catholic, despite the appearances.

 

[Big_Feet]

That would be 100% true. Except VII did not change anything. Remember…?

No council of the Church ever ‘changed’ anything…God is never changing and perfect, as is His Church, His bride. Each council of the Church merely developed the Church’s understanding of the Truth that IS better.

 

[thistle]

Pope Benedict told people to stop using such labels.

There are in fact only two types of Catholic - those in a state of grace and those in a state of mortal sin.

 

[Thomas_White]

Someone who believes that the Tridentine Mass (Latin Rite) is the true Catholic Mass, and that the Novus Ordo Mass is not legitimate.

Some go so far as to say that if someone attends a Novus Ordo Mass and receives the Eucharist, he or she is committing a sin. I’ve heard them say that if you can’t find a Latin Mass near you, you are better off not going to Mass at all. Personally, I think this is really a tad extreme, to say that no Mass is better than a Novus Ordo Mass. They consider Paul VI and every Pope since him as an “anti-pope,” so therefore there are extremely few legitimate priests in the world because anybody ordained since Vatican II is not legitimate (since the pope wasn’t legitimate, all the bishops aren’t legitimate, so they couldn’t legitimately ordain anybody), and relate all this to our being in the Last Days.

This is the extreme view, and is not at all what ‘Traditional Catholicism’ means. I’ve always thought Traditional Catholicism was simply a reference to the historical traditions of the Church and concernd only a description of those traditions as they once were but was not a value judgment of them (i.e., that they were either better or worse than what followed).

It’s true that some prefer the Tridentine Mass and other do not. This is an individual preference, and there are many reasons for it. The difficulty begins when we start saying one is better than the other.

 

[friardchips]

Most traditional Catholics I have met aren’t any more pious than anyone else. This is more of a stereotype accusation and inaccurate broad generalization.

Traditional Catholics don’t generally mix rites by attending the Tridentine and the Novus Ordo at the same time. Some do, but most do not.

Most die-hard traditional Catholics will only attend the Tridentine Mass primarily out of liturgical preference, but also because of family history. All our grandparents and great-grandparents attended Latin Masses going back many, many generations and centuries.

Traditional Catholics also tend to be more conservative, and family-minded. It is not uncommon to see rather large families with many young children attending Latin Mass.

Not a sterotype; first-hand evidence. And do the children all know what the priest is saying? Also, in my parish Church where the ‘New’ Rite is celebrated there are plenty of families all praying and singing along. It is wonderful to see. Even so, despite our difference of opinion, yours seems a thoughtful response to my post. Thank you for sharing your experience with me/us.

 

[gracepoole]

1. Exclusive preference for the 1962 Latin Mass (“radder” trads won’t touch anything 1955 or later with a ten-foot pole). And I mean exclusive.

The term “rad trad” or “radical traditionalist” was coined by the Southern Poverty Law Center and as such, it really shouldn’t have any place in a discussion of traditional Catholicism.

 

[StGerardMajella]

Not a sterotype; first-hand evidence.

Statistical evidence differs from your own personal experience. It is not possible to make such sweeping generalizations and stereotypes about a whole faction of the Church worldwide with any degree of accuracy or credibility. In some circles, this would be called slander, which is hardly a Catholic virtue.

And do the children all know what the priest is saying?

That depends on the parents. My children are attending a traditional Catholic school where they will learn Latin from a very young age. This past year, for example, my son attended the Latin Mass weekly at his school, with daily visits to the chapel as well.

Unfortunately, most Catholic schools in the Western world no longer teach Latin. This transpired post-Vatican II, which is rather strange considering Latin is the official language of the Church. Historically, Catholic schools did teach Latin.

For those unfamiliar with Latin, you’d be amazed how much of the language you can learn just from regular Latin Mass attendance. Most Roman Missals for the Latin Mass have the Latin right alongside the English translation. Following along with the liturgy utilizing the English translation is never a problem for those individuals that are less inclined to learn a foreign language.

Also, in my parish Church where the ‘New’ Rite is celebrated there are plenty of families all praying and singing along. It is wonderful to see.

Nationally, the traditional Catholic seminaries that espouse the Latin Mass are busting at the seams with applicants for the priesthood. Every year, we see rapid growth in the Latin Mass ever since Pope Benedict liberalized its use just a few years ago.

When I am talking about families, I am talking about parents with up to ten children or more all attending Latin Mass. These are very large Catholic families with many children. Generally speaking, you won’t find this same phenomenon as common in other churches.

 

[Megan7]

Statistical evidence differs from your own personal experience. It is not possible to make such sweeping generalizations and stereotypes about a whole faction of the Church worldwide with any degree of accuracy or credibility. In some circles, this would be called slander, which is hardly a Catholic virtue.

That depends on the parents. My children are attending a traditional Catholic school where they will learn Latin from a very young age. This past year, for example, my son attended the Latin Mass weekly at his school, with daily visits to the chapel as well.

Unfortunately, most Catholic schools in the Western world no longer teach Latin. This transpired post-Vatican II, which is rather strange considering Latin is the official language of the Church. Historically, Catholic schools did teach Latin.

For those unfamiliar with Latin, you’d be amazed how much of the language you can learn just from regular Latin Mass attendance. Most Roman Missals for the Latin Mass have the Latin right alongside the English translation. Following along with the liturgy utilizing the English translation is never a problem for those individuals that are less inclined to learn a foreign language.

Nationally, the traditional Catholic seminaries that espouse the Latin Mass are busting at the seams with applicants for the priesthood. Every year, we see rapid growth in the Latin Mass ever since Pope Benedict liberalized its use just a few years ago.

When I am talking about families, I am talking about parents with up to ten children or more all attending Latin Mass. These are very large Catholic families with many children. Generally speaking, you won’t find this same phenomenon as common in other churches.

Hello

Thanks for the lovely post:thumbsup:

If I may ask, what state, town are you in? Or what is the school your children are attending? You mentioned that they are learning Latin. Do they have Latin classes daily? I think that this is what my sister & her family are looking for. If you would like, you could send me a private message with the details.

Thanks in advance

God bless you & yours.

+Pax

Megan

 

[Draper]

There’s no such thing in the eyes of the Church.

 

[Draper]

Pope Benedict told people to stop using such labels.

There are in fact only two types of Catholic - those in a state of grace and those in a state of mortal sin.

You’re right…

He also gave us the monikers “Ordinary Form of the Mass” and “Extraordinary Form of the Mass” because he knew that inaccurate labels like “novus ordo mass” and “traditional latin mass” were divisive.

Yet their use continues by some and that says volumes.

 

[friardchips]

Statistical evidence differs from your own personal experience. It is not possible to make such sweeping generalizations and stereotypes about a whole faction of the Church worldwide with any degree of accuracy or credibility. In some circles, this would be called slander, which is hardly a Catholic virtue.

Slander does not mean that. Unfortunately, to call oneself anything over and above ‘Catholic’ or ‘Christian’, is to plop oneself up on a make-believe pedastal, whether or not this is intended, by the very use of a label being incorporated. And it is not virtuous to put onself above others by going around granting ourselves titles. Leave the commendation of virtue for others to assert. Catholic means ‘all embracing’. That is enough, or should be. For Catholics, are those who embrace all.

That depends on the parents. My children are attending a traditional Catholic school where they will learn Latin from a very young age. This past year, for example, my son attended the Latin Mass weekly at his school, with daily visits to the chapel as well.

Maybe not all parents have the luxury of being able to afford to send their children to schools which teach Latin. Sure, if secular schools or all Christian schools did, around the world, then we might not have this dilemma. Free Latin education for the poor, is what you recommend?!

Unfortunately, most Catholic schools in the Western world no longer teach Latin. This transpired post-Vatican II, which is rather strange considering Latin is the official language of the Church. Historically, Catholic schools did teach Latin.

It is unadvisable to defame the very gifts which our Creator has shared with us at the expense of much hard work on the part of those holy men who worked to filter out the “fortress mentality” (quote from a Catholic journalist) from the Catholic Church. Of course, there are going to be those who find it difficult to let go, and sometimes change has very downward spirals, but this is not the fault of the change itself, but the fact that many who were keen on older ways of doing things, were left a little disillusioned, and as a result of their disillusionment wouldn’t and won’t comply, fully. But I think it is about time we all pulled our socks up and got on with it because Vatican II was a long time ago now and all have had plenty of time to get used to the changes.

For those unfamiliar with Latin, you’d be amazed how much of the language you can learn just from regular Latin Mass attendance. Most Roman Missals for the Latin Mass have the Latin right alongside the English translation. Following along with the liturgy utilizing the English translation is never a problem for those individuals that are less inclined to learn a foreign language.

How would the Church be able to afford such integration of Latin teaching and how would they go about it? This is not realistic in our present times.

Nationally, the traditional Catholic seminaries that espouse the Latin Mass are busting at the seams with applicants for the priesthood. Every year, we see rapid growth in the Latin Mass ever since Pope Benedict liberalized its use just a few years ago.

Good, if they are genuinely there to be open to the Holy Spirit. and not just religous-minded people who have been scouted by TC propagandists. It is quality not quantity, after all, that counts. It is not the external action that is central priority but the holiness of the offering.

When I am talking about families, I am talking about parents with up to ten children or more all attending Latin Mass. These are very large Catholic families with many children. Generally speaking, you won’t find this same phenomenon as common in other churches.

Now who is making assumptions. In your dictionary, this somewhat wild proclamation, could amount to “slander”.

 

[Denise1957]

Nationally, the traditional Catholic seminaries that espouse the Latin Mass are busting at the seams with applicants for the priesthood. Every year, we see rapid growth in the Latin Mass ever since Pope Benedict liberalized its use just a few years ago.

That traditional Catholic seminaries are bursting at the seams shows that young men are attracted to the Old Mass and devotions. Since young people are attracted, there’s every indication that the use of the Old Mass will continue to grow. Regarding Pope Benedict, I recall what he wrote in his letter which accompanied his Summorum Pontificum :

“What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred, and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place.”

~Pope Benedict XVl

 

[Thomas_White]

The term “rad trad” or “radical traditionalist” was coined by the Southern Poverty Law Center and as such, it really shouldn’t have any place in a discussion of traditional Catholicism.

 

[Thomas_White]

The term “rad trad” or “radical traditionalist” was coined by the Southern Poverty Law Center and as such, it really shouldn’t have any place in a discussion of traditional Catholicism.

I agree. I will attempt to explain something from the standpoint of personal experience. What I found most jarring about the introduction of the revised OF Mass concerned both the use of the vernacular and the revised layout of the Church. While the intent of Vatican II was to introduce an openness to the modern world, it seemed to me that the temporal world had in a way been let into the Mass.

We lived in the modern world. I had plenty of experience of the temporal world in daily life, and I did not go to Mass in search of more of it. This was more than unnecessary, and I thought it was a serious mistake. I missed the timelessness and certainty of the Latin language as well as the more reverent ambience of the Latin Mass. The very layout of the service seemed to introduce a casualness and with it a worldliness that detracted from the spiritual.

That was then, a long time ago, but it was my experience. And I’m sure I was not alone. I suppose this sentiment is one definition of a “traditional Catholic”. I don’t see it as radical at all for it was the Mass that changed. What the Southern Poverty Law Center might have to say is entirely political and part of an ideological agenda. It has nary a thing to do with the personal experience of many Catholics forty-five years ago.

 

[rose_kelly]

A few weeks ago I was unable to attend the Sunday morning mass, so I went to a later Polish mass held at our Cathedral, we have a large number of Polish people living in my UK City, and the service is very well attended.
Even though I didn’t understand the language I had no problem following the mass, and thanks to some talented singers and musicians the music was beautiful.

I mention that because I feel that’s one of the many good things about belonging to a universal religion, you can travel to most countries in the world and find a Catholic church to attend mass with the added advantage of still feeling part of the community, whether the mass be in Latin or the country’s own language.

 

[rose_kelly]

I would love to go to an African Catholic church and hear a choir like this. youtube.com/watch?v=G48tSu2EB-w

 

[porthos11]

The term “rad trad” or “radical traditionalist” was coined by the Southern Poverty Law Center and as such, it really shouldn’t have any place in a discussion of traditional Catholicism.

Hence, my use of “scare quotes”.

 

[R_H_Benson]

That traditional Catholic seminaries are bursting at the seams shows that young men are attracted to the Old Mass and devotions. Since young people are attracted, there’s every indication that the use of the Old Mass will continue to grow. Regarding Pope Benedict, I recall what he wrote in his letter which accompanied his Summorum Pontificum :

“What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred, and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place.”

~Pope Benedict XVl

Yes! I am praying for all of the recently ordained priests of the FSSP, as well as those from the ICRSS who will be ordained to the priesthood in a few weeks! God bless them! May many brave and holy men follow in their footsteps and answer Our Lord’s call to feed those who are starved for the full treasury of the Church’s traditions!

 

[gracepoole]

Hence, my use of “scare quotes”.

But the term (with quotes or without) shouldn’t really matter in a discussion of defining traditional Catholicism. The SPLC groups organizations under this umbrella that are really no longer Catholic – not traditional, not modern, not Catholic. When you talk about those who prefer the 1955 Missal, maybe you’re speaking of sedevacantists? In which case, again, we’re no longer speaking of Catholics.

 

[commenter]

But the term (with quotes or without) shouldn’t really matter in a discussion of defining traditional Catholicism. The SPLC groups organizations under this umbrella that are really no longer Catholic – not traditional, not modern, not Catholic. When you talk about those who prefer the 1955 Missal, maybe you’re speaking of sedevacantists? In which case, again, we’re no longer speaking of Catholics.

I assume you meant only those who regard any Missal since 1955 as invalid; of course people can prefer the older Missal and its Masses but still accept the validity of Missals since 1955, and Masses based on those recent Missals, and still be good Catholics.

To other posters, be cautious about accepting anything coming out of the SPLC. It may have had some credibility in the past, but has evolved into an aggressive, one sided advocate for the Left, and secularism. I am sure they will soon label the Catholic Church itself, and any other church opposed to abortion and gay marriage, as hate groups.