What exactly is a Liturgical Dancer?

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Trust me, if you have not seen them you are a very lucky person,
my bad luck is that I have experienced it before and will always have to live with the visual image…YUK!!!
Mike
 
On occaision at my parish we have lithurgical dancers at mass. They are good, it is not distracting at all. It’s more like part of the song than a performance. There’s no clapping. The dancing only happens with a few of the songs, mostly the entrance and the exit. The girls/ladies wear what I would call a white choir robe. Most of the “dance” is done with their arms, and then they move around a little…kind of like if you’ve ever seen a song performed in sign language, only they are moving around a little more and it’s not sign language. The don’t lift up their legs or piroette (sp?) or anything like that.

Really it is a nice thing, and no different than having a band play the music at mass, the way it is done at my parish. The bast way to relate it for you to understand what it is like would be to say it is like angels dancing in celebration of our Lord.
 
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annb:
On occaision at my parish we have lithurgical dancers at mass. They are good, it is not distracting at all. It’s more like part of the song than a performance. There’s no clapping. The dancing only happens with a few of the songs, mostly the entrance and the exit. The girls/ladies wear what I would call a white choir robe. Most of the “dance” is done with their arms, and then they move around a little…kind of like if you’ve ever seen a song performed in sign language, only they are moving around a little more and it’s not sign language. The don’t lift up their legs or piroette (sp?) or anything like that.

Really it is a nice thing, and no different than having a band play the music at mass, the way it is done at my parish. The bast way to relate it for you to understand what it is like would be to say it is like angels dancing in celebration of our Lord.
It is also an abuse and should not be part of the mass.
 
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annb:
Care to elaborate? This response is not really helpful to the conversation.
Sure, so-called liturgical dancing has no place in the mass and is an abuse.

Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, has publicly criticized introducing dance into the Liturgy, as it risks reducing this sacred rite to a spectacle. In an address in 2003, for example, the cardinal responded to a question on “liturgical dance”: “There has never been a document from our Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments saying that dance is approved in the Mass”; and he noted that “the tradition of the Latin Church has not known the dance. It is something that people are introducing in the last ten years – or twenty years”. (See Cardinal Responds to Questions on Liturgy AB October 2003)

adoremus.org/Dance.html
 
Ann, you can also review post #8 above for an excellent discourse on the topic by our dear Pope Benedict XVI, and post #9 is also informative.
 
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TeriGator:
Ann, you can also review post #8 above for an excellent discourse on the topic by our dear Pope Benedict XVI, and post #9 is also informative.
The ones at our mass really are nothing like what is described in posts 8 and 9. That’s why I was trying to help give a visual image of how this was different from the references made and from the replies that made lithurgical dance sound so terribly awful and sacriligious. It’s also not a spectacle any more than a choir is a spectacle. Half the time when they are dancing, I don’t even notice right away.

And as far as the participation, I mean, I can’t play the organ either. It’s not a professional group, anyone who does want to do the lithurgical dance could, just like with any other job at church, eucharistic minister, usher, etc. Maybe I’m missing the point?
 
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annb:
The ones at our mass really are nothing like what is described in posts 8 and 9. That’s why I was trying to help give a visual image of how this was different from the references made and from the replies that made lithurgical dance sound so terribly awful and sacriligious. It’s also not a spectacle any more than a choir is a spectacle. Half the time when they are dancing, I don’t even notice right away.

And as far as the participation, I mean, I can’t play the organ either. It’s not a professional group, anyone who does want to do the lithurgical dance could, just like with any other job at church, eucharistic minister, usher, etc. Maybe I’m missing the point?
Ann, my experience was similar to yours except the dance style was a little different, more toward the “lyrical.” Apparently most people here who have experienced liturgical dance had bad experiences with it, do not find it a reverent expression, or just don’t like the art form which is not unexpected since dance as a performance art is not widely integrated into our culture.

The Church has ruled that liturgical dance is not appropriate at Mass in our culture largely because dance is not an integral part of the way we express ourselves in every day life. There are areas of the world such as Africa and parts of Asia where dance is an integral part of how they express themselves and my understanding is that it would be acceptable in those cultures at the discretion of the bishop.

I fully agree with you that there really is no difference between expressing our praise in dance or in song–or art or poetry for that matter–but I still tend to be against using dance in the Mass because most people do find it distracting and anything that distracts is ultimately not beneficial. I say that with sadness since what I saw was quite beautiful and I know the spirit in which it was offered was totally one of giving the dancer’s gift back to God.

Be that as it may though, it is forbidden in our Church so while it may be interesting to discuss people’s experiences with it, we shouldn’t be finding it in our Masses.

Peace,
 
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annb:
The ones at our mass really are nothing like what is described in posts 8 and 9. That’s why I was trying to help give a visual image of how this was different from the references made and from the replies that made lithurgical dance sound so terribly awful and sacriligious. It’s also not a spectacle any more than a choir is a spectacle. Half the time when they are dancing, I don’t even notice right away.

And as far as the participation, I mean, I can’t play the organ either. It’s not a professional group, anyone who does want to do the lithurgical dance could, just like with any other job at church, eucharistic minister, usher, etc. Maybe I’m missing the point?
Well, with all due respect I would ask you by what authority these folks have introduced this novelty into the mass?
 
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fix:
Well, with all due respect I would ask you by what authority these folks have introduced this novelty into the mass?
I don’t know, I just show up. 😃

When did the Pope issue the statement on lithurgical dance? I haven’t seen any dancing since Easter.
 
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annb:
I don’t know, I just show up. 😃

When did the Pope issue the statement on lithurgical dance? I haven’t seen any dancing since Easter.
It is a question that has been nuanced much these past few years. I will post some links that I found interesting:
I saw in one place – I will not tell you where – where they staged a dance during Mass, and that dance was offensive. It broke the rules of moral theology and modesty. Those who arranged it – they should have had their heads washed with a bucket of holy water! [laughter]

Why make the people of God suffer so much? Haven’t we enough problems already? Only Sunday, one hour, they come to adore God. And you bring a dance! Are you so poor you have nothing else to bring us? Shame on you! That’s how I feel about it.

Somebody can say, “but the pope visited this county and the people danced”. A moment: Did the pope arrange it? Poor Holy Father – he comes, the people arranged. He does not know what they arranged. And somebody introduces something funny – is the pope responsible for that? Does that mean it is now approved? Did they put in on the table of the Congregation for Divine Worship? We would throw it out! If people want to dance, they know where to go.
adoremus.org/1003Arinze.html
There has not been an express ruling from the Holy See against so-called “liturgical dance” – primarily because, as Cardinal Arinze also observed, dance-like movements during processions are customary in some countries, and thus may be a legitimate form of “inculturation” of the Litugy in these regions. This kind of ritual dance has been introduced into several papal liturgies in recent years – on occasions usually connected with African or Asian culture. These are special exceptions, however, that are to be seen in the context of the Holy Father’s unique universal role, not as precedent-setting liturgical variations.
Code:
 But the Holy See has addressed the matter of dance, constantly stressing the proper distinction between permitting indigenous cultural traditions and introducing innovations into the celebration of the Liturgy...
The motive for urging a practice that is alien to the Catholic liturgical heritage is also worth considering. In “Jesus Christ, the Bearer of Life * A Christian Reflection on the ‘New Age’”, jointly issued by the Pontifical Councils for Culture and for Interreligious Dialogue in 2003 to caution Christians about false religious practice, dance is mentioned as one of the methods used by followers of the quasi-religious “New Age” movements to achieve “cosmic consciousness”, “self-realiztion” and “enlightement” (2.3.4.1), along with yoga and other movement and exercise programs. This document cautions that “It is essential to see whether phenomena linked to this movement, however loosely, reflect or conflict with a Christian vision of God, the human person and the world”. (6.2)
Code:
 While "liturgical dance" is not expressly mentioned in the 2004 Instruction *[Redemptionis Sacramentum](http://www.adoremus.org/RedemptionisSacramentum.html)*,, it would be included in the general prohibition against introducing elements not contemplated by the liturgical books; furtherore, any changes in the rites that may be proposed by any conference of bishops must always have prior approval by the Holy See.
http://www.adoremus.org/Dance.html
 
From what I have seen…someone who probably would never make it as a dancer anywhere else.
 
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karry:
From what I have seen…someone who probably would never make it as a dancer anywhere else.
I don’t want to rehash, but please see my response to a similar comment in Post #10. There really is no call to be making these types of uncharitable comments. 😦
 
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fix:
It is a question that has been nuanced much these past few years. I will post some links that I found interesting:
When I BBQ it can be a truly Holy experience for me, Rollerblading is the same way if I blade while saying a Rosary. Perhaps both can skirt the rules and be introduced to the liturgy. /sarcasm off/
 
I must say I am thankful for not having to be concerned with this at my parish or in the diocese. But I must tell you this sounds like something my sisters non-denominational church does
 
During the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, you will usually find in most Hispanic parishes some dancers called “matachines”. However, at no time do they dance during the liturgy. Most of the time it is done after the mass, and after the priest has left. Also in many parishes it is done outside of the church before Mass starts or if there is space, it is done in the hall. But again, that has been the culture in Mexico for many, many years.

It makes absolutely no difference whether we have a preference for it or not, whether it is done reverently or not, whether it makes us feel good or not, the Church has said that it is NOT a part of the liturgy (as least in the West) and thus if it is done in any parish during the mass, it is a disobedience to the Church and should be stopped immediately.

That a priest OK’d it during a funeral mass because of the request of the family, the priest was wrong and should have explained why. He could have maybe allowed it before or after the mass, but not during the liturgy. What if I were to request, during a mass for a magician, for the priest to put in a magic show during the consecration and add the words “abracadabra, the bread is now the body of christ”, would that be OK? I know this is going overboard, but the priest should very gently have denied the request for liturgical dancers.

I have seen “liturgical dancers” before, some of the dancers were good and others were bad, but regardless they should NOT have danced during the mass.

As for music and singing, that has been a part of the mass for many, many years and actually the musicians and singers are there to “lead” the singing, and not to put on a show.

What next, are some priests going to allow “liturgical dancers” so they can lead everybody and have the whole congregation prancing and jumping around the church during mass? .:eek: I DONT THINK SO… Maybe at some pentecostal service. I know that in some “charismatic masses” the so called “dancing in the spirit” is done, but that too is NOT allowed.
 
QUICUMQUE VULT:
Yep, know exactly what you mean , angelus
That is the very reason I no longer proselytize, among my “fundy” relatives and friends.

I usually get “blind sided” by something like this:
arent liturgical dancers pagan?
why do you have Clown Masses?
Your “service”/Mass is so boring!
Why are nuns being ordained as priestesses?
And why do they no longer dress like nuns?
What’s up with this molestation thing?
and on and on and on, ad nauseum
So as A converted “Fundy” I just go to the TLM and thank God for it. And keep my mouth shut in “Mixed” company
Don’t forget “You stand up and sit down too much!”
 
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