What exactly is dark night of the soul?

[fhansen]

OK, I have I guess a lot of questions. I have seen from some posters that very few people, and not even all saints go through “dark night of the soul” but what is more common is “dark night of the senses”. What exactly is “dark night of the senses”? Have really never hear of it, if you’ll all excuse my ignorance on the subject. And if “dark night of the soul” lasts many years, is that a constant non stop thing? Can it seem to be intermittently say for instance a few days or weeks at a time or is it a constant thing or does that even vary?

Bless you all,
Tee

Personally, I wouldn’t know. As to one of my own posts I was kidding when I said I had just been fast-tracked thru a few days of the Dark Night of the Soul. Just in case I was adding to anyones’ confusion.

 

[Teelynn]

That’s ok, confusion comes by me naturally. And I do agree with you that the “time is running out” factor helps to push us into forging ahead. Time is running out I believe, but also because I am getting older by the day!

 

[Joysong]

Teelynn:

OK, I have I guess a lot of questions. I have seen from some posters that very few people, and not even all saints go through “dark night of the soul” but what is more common is “dark night of the senses”. What exactly is “dark night of the senses”?

While I am very familiar with the carmelite saints’ writings, I am now reading Fire Within, which is an excellent commentary on them, by spiritual director/priest Fr. Dubay . . . I highly recommend it! It will be difficult to say in a few paragraphs what these authors have said in an entire book.

Pg. 160, Fr. Dubay: It must be emphasized that the nights are contemplative experiences, not ordinary sufferings attendant on human life such as illness, depression, failures, contradictions and blame. These latter purify to some extent when they are accepted with love, but they are not what St. John is talking about.

One of the most common mistakes spiritual directors and confessors tend to make (and also those who read these threads) is the easy diagnosis of ordinary sufferings as “dark nights.”

So what is it then?

Fr. Dubay continues, We must deprive ourselves of seeking finite things for themselves, and this is experienced as an emptying, a “night” for the senses. The imperfectly redeemed person is so accustomed to disordered pursuits that when he gives them up and is divinely freed from them, he necessarily experiences pain in the process.

I love the Eucharistic Prayer IV which echoes this. And that we might live no longer for ourselves but for him . . .

Pg. 162, God begins to give this new, dry, nondiscursive type of prayer very soon after a person begins to take the gospel seriously, to live it generously, and to give adequate time to mental prayer. And the majority of them do enter it, because it is common to see them suffer these aridities.

However, comparatively few of those who reach the first night grow beyond it. What is the problem? Our neglect and selfishness. These are people who never bring themselves to give up worldly values entirely.

• They cut corners on time given to prayer.
• They engage in gossip, unkind and idle words.
• They live comfortably themselves and do not share much with the poor.
• They allow themselves minor disobediences as well as more serious rejection of magisterial teaching.
• They indulge in worldly amusements (internet, TV, TIVO?) and expensive tastes in dining, drinking, clothing, and vacations.

I believe a summary might be: we put self first, rather than God, in many areas of our life.
This may give you a brief overview and I hesitate to lengthen this post, unless it prompts a few more questions. Maybe others can fill in the blanks, as the Spirit prompts them.

Carole

 

[Joysong]

Teelynn:

And if “dark night of the soul” lasts many years, is that a constant non stop thing? Can it seem to be intermittently say for instance a few days or weeks at a time or is it a constant thing or does that even vary?

To address the second part of your post, it is good to back up and remember that ‘darkness’ is a term that is difficult to understand in the context of spirituality. The only thing I can present in order to help us understand would be our life experience of being in a physical dark room for a long period, and having someone shine a bright light in our eyes. It would cause us to recoil as the light is too strong to endure.

Similarly, God bestows light passively, spiritually, on those advancing in prayer, and it causes them to experience empty dryness, and in some cases, real spiritual pain. They may often unable to pray or even to think of God with the good desires and consolation they had formerly, and this causes anxiety for many, thinking all blessings are over for them.

Sometimes, it is just a correction for lukewarmness that puts the soul back on track. Other times, it may be true purification that none of us are able to effect in curing the roots of our sins that cling passively to us, and are often undetected in an exam of conscience. These people, if faithful to grace, are brought in to the passive night where these inflows of God’s light are able to purify them.

And no, it is not constant, but assails the spirit according to God’s perfect Wisdom, the soul’s fidelity, and the amount of purification that is needed.

 

[Teelynn]

Thank you Joysong and others for your helpful insight. This might be what I am experiencing from time to time. Certainly not “Dark Night of the Soul” but dryness. This dryness, however short in duration, causes me extreme sadness and a physical knot in my stomach to even thing about God. I feel almost physically affected but know it will pass. But I know from reading somewhat about it to keep praying anyway with every ounce of concentration as I can muster, and if the feelings and consolation are not there I ask God for help. Seems as though I just can’t connect no matter what I do. When these short bursts came at first I felt terribly guilty (still do) and can’t tell you how many times I would quit and start again a little later thinking it would be better…to no avail. Finally decided to just do the best I could come what may. Makes perfect sense to me that (in my situation anyway) they are corrections that I must make to detach totally from the world.

Will get the book “fire within” have heard such rave reviews, that it is a must read for me.

Thanks all again!

 

[Joysong]

Hi Teelynn,

I’m glad to know you will be getting this book. I wish I had not put off for so long in purchasing it.

But I know from reading somewhat about it to keep praying anyway with every ounce of concentration as I can muster

We learn from St. Teresa’s book,* Life*, that as a nun in community, she would have been praying the Liturgy of the Hours, and other such vocal prayers. I trust you are keeping up with those devotions you had previously committed to.

But for her, the failure was in not practicing ‘mental prayer.’ She actually gave it up for a time, thinking that she was unworthy to practice it, and later called it a ‘false humility.’ When she returned to mental prayer and avoided the distracting conversations and visits to the parlor, God began to shower His love upon her once again. She determined that no matter what, she would never again omit mental prayer. (Loving personal conversation with God, which flows from meditation, or simply a willingness to just “be” with God and talk to Him.)

There may be incidental readers of this thread who think ‘prayer’ pertains only to the vocal devotions we recite that are composed by others, worthy though they be.

Carole

 

[Teelynn]

Oh my goodness, how the Holy Spirit does speak to us! I had not read that about her previously.(or maybe I had but had forgotten) This has been just about what I had been doing with vocal prayer. How your post jumped out at me when I read it! And…St. Teresa is my patron saint. My mom was going to name me after the Little Flower Therese but the secretary in the rectory gave her a book on Teresa of Avila, and she liked her so much decided on her.

Thanks again and Blessings,
Tee

 

[Joysong]

Hi again, Teelynn,

How special that St. Teresa is your patron saint! She will help you understand much about prayer and virtue. Here’s the quote I mentioned above.

The devil, beneath the guise of humility, now led me into the greatest of all possible errors. Seeing that I was so utterly lost, I began to be afraid to pray. It seemed to me better, since in my wickedness I was one of the worst people alive, to live like everyone else; to recite, vocally, the prayers that I was bound to say; and not to practise mental prayer or hold so much converse with God, since I deserved to be with the devils, and, by presenting an outward appearance of goodness, was only deceiving others.

[Scroll down to Chapter VI]

catholicfirst.com/thefaith/catholicclassics/stteresa/life/teresaofavila3.cfm#CHAPTER%20VII

 

[glenaitken]

OK, I have I guess a lot of questions. I have seen from some posters that very few people, and not even all saints go through “dark night of the soul” but what is more common is “dark night of the senses”. What exactly is “dark night of the senses”? Have really never hear of it, if you’ll all excuse my ignorance on the subject. And if “dark night of the soul” lasts many years, is that a constant non stop thing? Can it seem to be intermittently say for instance a few days or weeks at a time or is it a constant thing or does that even vary?

Bless you all,
Tee

Hi Tee,
I don’t know if it’s already been answered, but basically in the dark night of the senses a person desires only heavenly things and finds delight in them. the things of this earth are not attractive and do not satisfy the soul. in the dark night of the soul, nothing satisfies the hearts longing for God- no amount of prayer, extacies, masses, rosaries, knowledge, etc. help but rather they only increase the suffering of longing love.
Is it a constant thing?- yes, with small exception. there may be one to five minutes once every two to five months where the person feels the presence of God and feels as if God did not abandon him or her. this depends on the strength of the soul- stronger souls can go longer periods without rest, but this rest lasts only but a brief moment and the person will generally have the knowledge that this is more or less a permenant condition of the soul. I do not know what happens afterwards- john of the cross says you die. in the few moments that the soul does spend with God resting there is really no dialouge- it’s just the soul and God staring at each other- no time exists, there are no words to say, no things to complain about, no questions to ask, no advice to seek, no prayers- just God. even if the soul does recognize the hand of God in its life, even if the soul is suddenly aware of the angels and saints worshiping in the mass, even if Christ would appear in a vision, these things do not delight the soul unless God himself is fully present to it. Unity alone suffices. no amount of spiritual consolations and experiances or extacies are enough- the soul can only be satisfied by being wholly and completely united to God, and would perfer living in the knowledge of that unity over a thousand extacies if only God would be present to the soul.

 

[Joysong]

Glenn,

I’m afraid we may be confusing people, for I mentioned that it is not a constant state without intermittent relief, yet you tell Tee that it IS constant. No doubt we are coming from different points of view, so maybe you should present why you hold this belief and on whose teaching you have formed it. Thanks.

Carole

 

[fhansen]

Let me try this out. A very ordinary person who was a cradle Catholic and left the Church but sought God earnestly for years and came to love Him and shared his faith with others at times and gave alms to the poor but did little else and lived conservatively enough but was far from detached from worldly things and still struggled with pride one day finds themselves, to their own surprise, in a deep, simple, and inspired prayer for another person whom they loved- who was in trouble- and soon after began to experience a series of supernatural events which took place over a 3-4 day period. The first was a rapture-the experience of being engulfed in the presence of God-together with and simultaneous to a locution or infusion of knowledge about a particular thing. The next was a pair of visions-each an exact repeat of the other but separated in time by about a day. And the last two were locutions-likewise exact repeats of each other and also separated by some time. All of this centered around a purpose or “work” that the person was to accomplish and did-stepping out in faith, strengthened by the aforementioned events. But that took place 18 years ago and after that dead silence. At least the silence seemed deafening at times compared to that one glorious moment where the soul was lifted to heights it could never begin to conceive of or raise itself to on its’ own. But the person went on with life-marrying and having babies and pursuing worldly things at times and spiritual things at others and coming back to the CC and helping out there but later seeming to have less time for that and then going thru a mid-life crisis of sorts, the loss of a loved one, and the stress of a major change in businesses and coming out less impressed with worldly stuff and realizing that they’re not doing enough for the kingdom and having these awesome experiences etched permanently in their brain so that they know they should be doing something more-in proclaiming the love and goodness and glory of God. So they begin to help again, especially in places where they can encourage others in faith, and they continue to seek God for ways they can do more. But that silence can still seem so deafening at times. It makes me think that life-or parts of it- can just be a long night of the soul in a way-perhaps in this case a laypersons’ strung-out version. Taking all of this as hypothetically true, I’d like to hear comments or compare notes with people, whether based on their own personal experiences or from what they’ve learned through study.

 

[Joysong]

Hi Fhansen,

I hear your pain. Think about it though … the absence of extraordinary spiritual gifts from God does not equate with the dark night. The symptoms present within this stage are recognizable, and I did not see that you described any of them.

We recall that St. Paul experienced being transported to the ‘third heaven’ and wrote about eye not seeing what God has prepared for us. He had an extraordinary conversion prior to that, but beyond the mention of these two experiences with God, there is nothing else mentioned.

It is good to remember the visions of Our Lady to St. Bernadette, the Fatima children, and St. Catherine Laboure, and realize that after their initial experiences, we are not told of anthing else.

Your comment about the ‘carrot on a stick’ is probably true in part. God knows what is best for us spiritually. Having received these gifts at one time or another is not a prelude to more of the same. Don’t we wish it WAS! In our humility, we learn to be content, no matter what state our spirit finds itself in. That was the observance of St. Paul,

Phil 4:11, "I have learned, in whatever situation I find myself, to be self-sufficient. I know indeed how to live in humble circumstances; I know also how to live with abundance. I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me.

 

[fhansen]

Thank you, Joysong, that sounds like good advice and I’m probably being bratty and need to hear it from someone else. I spend a fair amount of time around fellow Catholics but don’t easily find people I can discuss this stuff with. Thanks again.

 

[glenaitken]

Glenn,

I’m afraid we may be confusing people, for I mentioned that it is not a constant state without intermittent relief, yet you tell Tee that it IS constant. No doubt we are coming from different points of view, so maybe you should present why you hold this belief and on whose teaching you have formed it. Thanks.

Carole

I’m sorry, I think you may be right about confusing people when you mentioned it. It is constant state with intermittant relief- relief which is brief. John of the cross does say this, but he also says that some souls God “dipps” into the night periodically throughout thier lives instead of remaining as a consistant state. Mother Theresa or St. Therese of Lisuex would be an example of someone who experianced this persistant state, while St. Robert Bellermine and St. Ignatius (I believe these two are decent examples because they really don’t match St. John’s experiance, but would more identify wit hthe “high’s and Low’s” outlook on spirituality and dryspells, etc.) would be the type that would go through it in “waves”.
So, the two ways to experiance the Dark Night of the Soul is either in 1.“waves”- coming for periods in the person’s life on and off, and through 2. a persistant state.
I have taken this concept from John of the Cross, but I would need to re-read him again to find particullarly where. The vast majority of his work deals with the persistant state, but also may apply to the “wave” state.
Does this make more sense? now that you’ve mentioned it, I see that I never really clarified this point

 

[Joysong]

Thanks, that makes more sense and is in line with my studies, too. (Like you, I can’t put an immediate finger on it)

 

[glenaitken]

Thanks, that makes more sense and is in line with my studies, too. (Like you, I can’t put an immediate finger on it)

Good, I’m glad:thumbsup:
By the way, i went back and read all of the posts in your explaination (something I hadn’t done before because i was away from the computer for a few days) and you are right on the money with everything! I particularly appreciated, what seemed to me, you’re more thomistic/scholastic type of approach in your explainations. very well done. What studies are you in?

 

[Joysong]

Thanks for your supportive words Glenaitken,

Well, I joined the secular carmelites in 1981, and over the years we have covered all the material from these saints, in depth. It is only since lent ended that I’m in Fr. Dubay’s Fire Within, and it has been good for me in many ways due to references he quoted that were not available to us in carmel. Did you ever hear of “Testimonies?” where St. Teresa spoke about distractions? That was particularly helpful, but I never heard of it before.

I should also mention that I own these books and refer to them quite often. I noticed you are teaching on St. John of the Cross, and it encourages me that there are lay people who seek these saints’ works in a study group.

 

[glenaitken]

I have to admit that I am not as familiar with St. Theresa (I assume you mean Avila?) as I am with the writings of other saints. I would like to know more about “testamonies”- St. Theresa is a hard read. I know for myself that distractions are a problem because of my state in life and my own spiritual retardations (I mean this is the proper use of the word, not the slang). It is hard to see the hand of God, and most times I would prefer that He would just slap me with it rather then hide it from me, but that’s really not up to us now is it?

 

[Joysong]

Yes, I did mean St. Teresa of Avila. We also read St. Therese of Lisieux, Elizabeth of the Trinity, and Edith Stein.

I agree that St. Teresa was difficult, at first, but I was very blessed by God to be able to understand much of her doctrine. When you take all of the books and go topic by topic putting her words together, it is much clearer. Not that we can learn much by poring over texts, unless the Lord gives us experience of some of these difficult spiritual graces.

We had a cloistered nun in carmel give spiritual conferences for many years until the prioress called her back into the cloister. She was instrumental in our forming an official chapter. There were benedictine monks across the street who also shared their spirituality during some of our meetings. These were precious gifts while they lasted.

But I’m always ready to learn, as I’m sure you are too.

 

[TOP]

I either totally get this or I don’t have a clue. I’ll have to see how it pans out. I can’t even decide if I know what you all are talking about. There is just a void when I think about the dark night. All that comes to mind is when a priest told me it is like being inside during a snowstorm, then quickly going outside and being blinded by the brightness, that everything appears black, but you are actually surrounded by light. Tim