What exactly IS gossip?

[Abigail]

We all know that gossip, slander and calumny are sins. These things are usually described as saying bad things about absent people, even if the bad things are true. Obviously, talking about others can be very damaging, as there is no way for the person being talked about to defend themselves.

BUT…it’s a dangerous world out there. In order to protect ourselves and our families, we need to have as much information as possible about what goes on in our neighborhoods. If a neighbor tells me that someone down the street was arrested over the weekend for child pornography, that is probably gossip. But it is also information I want to know so I can make sure my children don’t go to that house. Same with something like domestic violence or alcoholism or drug abuse – I need to know whether people near me are likely to create a problem in my life so I can defend myself and won’t be caught off-guard.

Also, if I have information that other people need to protect themselves, should I keep it to myself because I don’t want to “gossip”? If someone has cheated me in business, should I not say anything and let others be cheated? If I know someone is likely to become violent without any provocation, should I put other people at risk to protect that person’s reputation? Neighborhood watch programs ask people to watch for suspicious behavior and inform others in the neighborhood – is this gossip?

I think you can see the problem. We shouldn’t say bad things about people behind their backs, but we also need to give and receive information about others in order to know what’s going on in our neighborhoods and protect ourselves. Are there any guidelines for determining how to do this?

 

[txstm]

Good question.

While a blanket answer would be difficult to come up with, I think a good rule of thumb is to only relay information about an absent person to others that is public. In your example of the person down the street who was arrested for child pornography, that is public information and it would be okay to warn others so they can act to protect their children.

I think context has a lot to do with it as well. If the information is of such a nature that the reputation of the absent party cannot be damaged, That’s probably not gossip. If the information could potentially damage the absent party’s reputation, that is gossip and should be avoided.

 

[Abigail]

Thanks, txstm. The public information idea sounds good in theory, but may not be practical. In my experience, some of the most dangerous people are very good at not getting caught…child molesters and people who engage in incest come to mind. Sometimes, the only clues we have are subtle. Is discussing our fears and suspicions gossip? These wrongdoers are counting on the goodness and charity of others to cover their bad acts.

Would it be gossip to say I had seen child pornography at a neighbor’s house? Would it be gossip to say I didn’t like the way someone “looked” at my young daughter? Would it be gossip to say I suspected someone of alcoholism because I had frequently smelled liquor on their breath early in the morning? Would it be gossip to tell others the parish priest had tried to talk my son into going on a secret weekend trip with him? All these things might damage someone’s reputation, but this is information that is valuable in more than just a “let’s trash John or Jane” way.

As I said, we live in a dangerous world. I feel I have the right and the obligation to ANY information that’s going to help keep me and my family out of harm’s way. Maybe it’s the intention that makes sharing information different than gossip…is my motive to protect someone, or am I telling lies about someone I dislike in order to hurt them? Problem is, I’m pretty likely not to like someone who is doing things I think might hurt others, so the motivation can get murky.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

I think what constitutes gossip is the intent. It’s one thing to warn someone “Hey, so-and-so did such-and-such to hurt this-and-that. Watch out for him.” It’s another thing to share similar information in a “Did you hear what so-and-so/their significant other did?!”. The former is advising someone to be wary, the latter is sharing the information for shock value.

 

[yesukristus]

This may be off-topic, but just wondering…
What if someone asks you about an absent person’s character and to not say that the character of that person constitutes lying?

 

[Christine2009]

I used to belong to a protestant church,which I no longer belong to.
A church member was complaining about the present pastor being divorced three times.
I told them that I didn’t think that was so bad. Since the last pastor had sexually molested his own flesh and blood daughter.
Church members who don’t believe that the pastor actually did this awful thing, allow him to visit the church during reunions and such without any problem.
He is invited to be the guest speaker in fact.
Was this gossip? I was stating a fact. And I felt I was assuring the complainer that being divorced three times wasn’t such a big deal, in comparison.
Needless to say,there are some people mad at me for saying these things. The person I told unfortunately repeated what I said.
I still believe that the Ex pastor should not be treated like he was an honorary member of that church. His wife and daughter are gone and “swept under the rug”,with no show of sympathy or support for them.
I am sorry I repeated that information and I have told that person how I feel.
That person assured me that what I said was not repeated but I am getting mixed messages from the others.
I understand why they are mad at me,because they want that to stay in the past,covered up with the years.
I am going to pray that the Lord will control my mind,lips and heart from now on.
I want Him to be proud of me so I’ll have peace of heart and mind.
While I was reading my bible and praying, I found these verses.
James 1:26"And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man’s religion is vain."
1 Peter 3:10
“For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile.”
James 3:8 “But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.”
Proverbs 17:20 “He that is of a perverse heart, shall not find good: and he that perverteth his tongue, shall fall into evil.”
These verses I pray the Lord will help me live by,
Proverbs 31:26 “She hath opened her mouth to wisdom, and the law of kindness is on her tongue.”
Isaiah 50:4
“The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary.”
Philippians 4:8 “For the rest, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever modest, whatsoever just, whatsoever holy, whatsoever lovely, whatsoever of good fame, if there be any virtue, if any praise of discipline, think on these things.”
As you can see, I do not feel good about what I did,but it’s done. All I can do now is pray that I won’t do anything like that again.
May the Lord help us all to live for Him,for He alone is worthy of our praise.

 

[Abigail]

Christine,

I think you did the right thing, and I don’t think you should have second thoughts or regret it. When people do bad things they should be exposed. Evil should be brought out into the light, and that is what you did. If you suffer for it, consider it martyrdom.

Our God is a God of truth, and He does not expect us to provide cover for those who would sexually abuse their own children. You probably can’t change them, but you can pray for those who wish to make excuses for such a vile thing. What a shame it is when those who claim to love God support and encourage those who do evil. And such an evil - the corruption of one’s own child and the defilement of their marriage!

 

[Christine2009]

Christine,

I think you did the right thing, and I don’t think you should have second thoughts or regret it. When people do bad things they should be exposed. Evil should be brought out into the light, and that is what you did. If you suffer for it, consider it martyrdom.

Our God is a God of truth, and He does not expect us to provide cover for those who would sexually abuse their own children. You probably can’t change them, but you can pray for those who wish to make excuses for such a vile thing. What a shame it is when those who claim to love God support and encourage those who do evil. And such an evil - the corruption of one’s own child and the defilement of their marriage!

Thank you for that.
I too believe that such evil should not be hidden.
I’ll just pray about this and let the Lord take care of it.

 

[stormcloud]

There are two primary considerations in my mind:

1. You have to take great care to know that what you are saying is fact (particularly when it involves charges such as molestation and rape because the tendency in our society, when it comes to these issues, is to presume guilt until proven innocent, and even then doubt the proven innocence)
2. If it doesn’t concern a matter that involves the safety of others, it should be left alone

 

[Abigail]

Christine,

Yes, let the Lord deal with it. You have done what you needed to do, now let it go and let Him do the rest. There is no need for your peace to be disturbed, as you only spoke the truth. And there is no need for you to do anything other than pray for those involved.

I think sometimes God allows us to become involved in these situations because he wants us to identify and pray for the people who do these terrible things. God wants all His children in heaven, and your prayers may be the ones that work a change of heart in those who need it the most.

I think you mentioned in your earlier post that you attended a protestant church. I don’t know how much you know about the Catholic concept of offering suffering for the salvation of others, but if you are unfamiliar with it, you might want to learn more. It is based on the Communion of Saints - that all of us, living and dead, past, present and future, share in each others joys and sufferings by virtue of being children of the same Father. It is a way we can all participate in the Cross, thereby turning sorrow into joy in the same way that Jesus turned death into eternal life.

 

[Abigail]

Stormcloud:

How does one deal with the fact that molesters are VERY careful to conceal what they do? I attended a “safe environment” presentation at my parish, and they encouraged people to report any type of suspicious behavior, even if they didn’t have “proof.” The reason being that molesters are usually very careful to conceal what they do, and that circumstantial evidence may be the ONLY evidence.

How do we balance the right a person has to a good reputation against the rights of the community to protect themselves against sociopaths who are notoriously good at making themselves look like model citizens? How do we differentiate “gossip” from legitimate information gathering?

A cowboy rides into town and steps into the local saloon. Another cowboy walks up to him and says “Howdy, pardner. You’re new in town. Watch out for Slim, over there. He has a nasty temper, and likes to pick fights with strangers.” Is this gossip if it harms Slim’s reputation, even it it’s true? Is it gossip unless the warning cowboy has actually seen Slim pick a fight with a stranger, rather than just hearing about it? Is it gossip unless Slim has actually been arrested for picking fights with strangers? Is it gossip if he’s only picked fights with strangers in private? I think you get my drift…

 

[stormcloud]

Stormcloud:

How does one deal with the fact that molesters are VERY careful to conceal what they do? I attended a “safe environment” presentation at my parish, and they encouraged people to report any type of suspicious behavior, even if they didn’t have “proof.” The reason being that molesters are usually very careful to conceal what they do, and that circumstantial evidence may be the ONLY evidence.

How do we balance the right a person has to a good reputation against the rights of the community to protect themselves against sociopaths who are notoriously good at making themselves look like model citizens? How do we differentiate “gossip” from legitimate information gathering?

As a catechist, I’ve attended the same program. My responsibility is to report anything suspicious to the RE Director and let her take the appropriate steps. Let the suspicions be investigated by the appropriate authorities and trust their findings. If you feel it’s necessary go over their heads, but always defer to those trained to handle these situations. If you don’t know that someone is guilty, you’re bearing false witness by taking it upon yourself to “spread the word”.

A cowboy rides into town and steps into the local saloon. Another cowboy walks up to him and says “Howdy, pardner. You’re new in town. Watch out for Slim, over there. He has a nasty temper, and likes to pick fights with strangers.” Is this gossip if it harms Slim’s reputation, even it it’s true? Is it gossip unless the warning cowboy has actually seen Slim pick a fight with a stranger, rather than just hearing about it? Is it gossip unless Slim has actually been arrested for picking fights with strangers? Is it gossip if he’s only picked fights with strangers in private? I think you get my drift…

Unless the warning cowboy has seen it first hand, or unless Slim has been convicted of it, yes, it’s gossip.

 

[Abigail]

"As a catechist, I’ve attended the same program. My responsibility is to report anything suspicious to the RE Director and let her take the appropriate steps. Let the suspicions be investigated by the appropriate authorities and trust their findings. If you feel it’s necessary go over their heads, but always defer to those trained to handle these situations. If you don’t know that someone is guilty, you’re bearing false witness by taking it upon yourself to “spread the word”.

I dunno, Stormcloud. I think trusting the “appropriate authorities” is how abuser-priests were allowed to ruin the lives of thousands of people. If the system is corrupt, does the community bear no responsibility? Are we to keep to ourselves the many conscious and unconcious clues we get that something isn’t right?

I think maybe the prohibition against “gossip” is like the often-repeated phrase “we shouldn’t judge others.” We shouldn’t judge the state of their souls, or try to ruin their reputations by spreading lies, but we can judge what they do AND exercise the right of self-defense that we and others have by careful warnings. It would be a pretty dangerous world if we ignored our “gut feelings,” and sometimes it’s appropriate to share those with others…IMHO…

 

[stormcloud]

I dunno, Stormcloud. I think trusting the “appropriate authorities” is how abuser-priests were allowed to ruin the lives of thousands of people. If the system is corrupt, does the community bear no responsibility? Are we to keep to ourselves the many conscious and unconcious clues we get that something isn’t right?

If the system is corrupt then it needs to be fixed, not bypassed. Take the position I’m in as an example. Let’s say I report something suspicious to my RE director involving a child in my class, but it appears to me that she isn’t taking appropriate action. I would then turn to member(s) of the RE board. If that doesn’t work, I turn to the pastor, then the chancellor of the Archdiocese etc., etc. etc. Eventually I will find someone who will investigate the issue, and the right thing to do is not to spread my suspicion in the mean time. Again, unless you have first hand knowledge of wrong doing, if you spread your suspicions before they have been investigated, you are bearing false witness.

I think maybe the prohibition against “gossip” is like the often-repeated phrase “we shouldn’t judge others.” We shouldn’t judge the state of their souls, or try to ruin their reputations by spreading lies, but we can judge what they do AND exercise the right of self-defense that we and others have by careful warnings. It would be a pretty dangerous world if we ignored our “gut feelings,” and sometimes it’s appropriate to share those with others…IMHO…

As I said, spreading suspicions by discussing them with someone not in a position of authority to officially investigate, is bearing false witness.

 

[Christine2009]

If the system is corrupt then it needs to be fixed, not bypassed. Take the position I’m in as an example. Let’s say I report something suspicious to my RE director involving a child in my class, but it appears to me that she isn’t taking appropriate action. I would then turn to member(s) of the RE board. If that doesn’t work, I turn to the pastor, then the chancellor of the Archdiocese etc., etc. etc. Eventually I will find someone who will investigate the issue, and the right thing to do is not to spread my suspicion in the mean time. Again, unless you have first hand knowledge of wrong doing, if you spread your suspicions before they have been investigated, you are bearing false witness.

As I said, spreading suspicions by discussing them with someone not in a position of authority to officially investigate, is bearing false witness.

This is why that person is walking around like nothing happened. While his wife and daughter are who knows where. Because no one believed the daughter. She was 12 yrs old and told her best friend things that an innocent 12 yr. old, raised by good christian parents,would not know. Unless she had experienced the act.
I understand what you are saying about bearing false witness.
I have prayed about it and asked the Lord himself to help me know and do the right thing. For His sake and His glory. Amen

 

[Abigail]

Christine, sometimes common sense trumps theory. God bless you for your concern.

In the end, all we can do when faced with a difficult situation is pray about it and ask God for guidance. Then do the right thing. We will frequently suffer for doing the right thing, but in the long run it’s better than playing it safe. God sees all and understands our motivations. Sometimes it isn’t as easy as running down a checklist of definitions and rules.