What exactly is necessary for justification?

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I’m writing a defense/explanation of Catholic salvation dogma, but have questions on some of the workings. How does Mortification fit in with Justification and Sanctification, and are there Sacraments besides Baptism, Confession, and Communion that are regarded as indispensible to salvation? (I’m thinking Confirmation and Extreme Unction) Thanks in advance.

P.S. The book I’m writing is tentatively titled “Justification by Faith,”, but is more the general story of salvation and it’s workings. ‘How things work’ if you will:)
 
This is a popular topic on this web site. I suggest you use the search feature. You’ll find a number of “lively” discussions.
 
josephback said:
I’m writing a defense/explanation of Catholic salvation dogma, but have questions on some of the workings. How does Mortification fit in with Justification and Sanctification, and are there Sacraments besides Baptism, Confession, and Communion that are regarded as indispensible to salvation? (I’m thinking Confirmation and Extreme Unction) Thanks in advance.

P.S. The book I’m writing is tentatively titled “Justification by Faith,”, but is more the general story of salvation and it’s workings. ‘How things work’ if you will:)
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In Catholic theology, Justification includes sanctification. You’ll want to peruse CCC#1987 and following.

You’ll also want to read the Council of Trent, session 6. Baptism is the “instrumental cause” of justification according to the Council of Trent (see chapter VII there in previous link).

Other sacraments contribute to our sanctification, and are sacramental sources of grace for us. CCC#1131 reads: “sacraments are efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us.”

Mortification is a practice that also contributes to our holiness.
 
So the book needs a new title? I’ll look those sources up.
 
In Chapter two, “From the Fall to the Cross”, I plan brief sketches and reviews of the stories involving Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses and the Israelites, capped off with Christ and the Atonement. Is there anything I’m missing that factors into the story of salvation?
 
josephback said:
I’m writing a defense/explanation of Catholic salvation dogma, but have questions on some of the workings. How does Mortification fit in with Justification and Sanctification, and are there Sacraments besides Baptism, Confession, and Communion that are regarded as indispensible to salvation? (I’m thinking Confirmation and Extreme Unction) Thanks in advance.

P.S. The book I’m writing is tentatively titled “Justification by Faith,”, but is more the general story of salvation and it’s workings. ‘How things work’ if you will:)
Click to expand...
Mortification can help us on the path of Justification and Sanctification. Justification and Sanctification are the same thing, which differs from Protestant teaching. I don’t think Confession is necessary for salvation if you never sin after Baptism. Baptism and Confession bring you into a state of grace, while all of the other sacraments increase your sanctifying grace.
 
josephback said:
I’m writing a defense/explanation of Catholic salvation dogma, but have questions on some of the workings. How does Mortification fit in with Justification and Sanctification,
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Mortification has come to mean several things which are not necessary to justification. However, at its core, it means dying to oneself. And that is absolutely essential to justification. One must die to sin and be born again in Christ.
and are there Sacraments besides Baptism, Confession, and Communion that are regarded as indispensible to salvation? (I’m thinking Confirmation and Extreme Unction) Thanks in advance.
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You’re sort of using salvation and justification interchangeably. They have much in common but are not synonyms.

As for salvation, the Sacraments are not indispensible for Salvation. We know this because the Church teaches Baptism of desire and of blood. If then, the Sacrament of Baptism is not absolutely indispensible and it is the doorway to the rest of the Sacraments, then none of the Sacraments are indispensible.
P.S. The book I’m writing is tentatively titled “Justification by Faith,”, but is more the general story of salvation and it’s workings. ‘How things work’ if you will:)
Click to expand...
Perhaps you’ll find this interesting. Let me know what you think.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
The root of it all is God’s grace alone, that is the power that justifies us, and absolutely nothing that comes from ourselves. But God allows us to participate in it through the Sacraments. People have give good things above on the issue!
 
COPLAND_3 said:
The root of it all is God’s grace alone, that is the power that justifies us, and absolutely nothing that comes from ourselves. But God allows us to participate in it through the Sacraments. People have give good things above on the issue!
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I hesitate to use the term “grace alone” because of the Protestant connotations associated with it. However, it is all by God’s grace. That is true. As Scripture says:

Philippians 2:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1**2 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.**

So, even our good works are by His Grace.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
josephback said:
I’m writing a defense/explanation of Catholic salvation dogma, but have questions on some of the workings. How does Mortification fit in with Justification and Sanctification, and are there Sacraments besides Baptism, Confession, and Communion that are regarded as indispensible to salvation? (I’m thinking Confirmation and Extreme Unction) Thanks in advance.

P.S. The book I’m writing is tentatively titled “Justification by Faith,”, but is more the general story of salvation and it’s workings. ‘How things work’ if you will:)
Click to expand...
Joseph,

Just a question. If you dont know what is required for justification how do you know you are justified?

Jesus taught that in the parable of the tax collector and the pharisee (Luke 18:9) the tax collector walked from the temple “justified.” Perhaps this parable contains a clue?

Rob
 
=josephback;9357060]I’m writing a defense/explanation of Catholic salvation dogma, but have questions on some of the workings. How does Mortification fit in with Justification and Sanctification, and are there Sacraments besides Baptism, Confession, and Communion that are regarded as indispensible to salvation? (I’m thinking Confirmation and Extreme Unction) Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
P.S. The book I’m writing is tentatively titled “Justification by Faith,”, but is more the general story of salvation and it’s workings. ‘How things work’ if you will:)
Click to expand...
Joseph if you remove the word “indespensible” for Confirmation and the Last Rites your FAR closer to the trurh. EXTREMELY helpful; YES! Essential; NO!🙂

In an absolute sense what is needed is:
  1. God’s Grace [accepted and correctly applied]
  2. Faith [a result of Grace and it too is a GIFT from God]
  3. Baptism by water and the Spirit [or if required by Blood or Desire]
  4. Dying “In the state of Grace” [No unconfessed or unforgiven Mortal Sins]
  5. Obeying ALL that God commands and Mandates:
    the commnadments
    All Dogma’s
    ALL Doctrines
    ALL Church teachings on “faith beliefs” and or “Morals”
  6. Acts of Charity
These are the ESSENTIALS:thumbsup:

God Bless and good luck with your book,

pat /PJM
 
De_Maria said:
I hesitate to use the term “grace alone” because of the Protestant connotations associated with it. However, it is all by God’s grace. That is true. As Scripture says:

Philippians 2:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1**2 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.**

So, even our good works are by His Grace.

Sincerely,

De Maria
Click to expand...
I know what you mean. Sometimes I use language that Protestants understand and relate to, me being a former Baptist myself I try to think of what would have made sense to me back then. I felt comfortable wording it like that because I did hear Marcus Grodi use the phrase grace alone on the Journey Home on EWTN.
 
PJM said:
Joseph if you remove the word “indespensible” for Confirmation and the Last Rites your FAR closer to the trurh. EXTREMELY helpful; YES! Essential; NO!🙂
Click to expand...
Hi Pat, That’s what I thought. Just wanted to make sure:)
 
submariner2 said:
Joseph,

Just a question. If you dont know what is required for justification how do you know you are justified?

Jesus taught that in the parable of the tax collector and the pharisee (Luke 18:9) the tax collector walked from the temple “justified.” Perhaps this parable contains a clue?

Rob
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Rob,

Hi. I’m pretty sure about what’s required, I just started the thread to make sure I’m not missing anything. I think the reference you cite could be an example of faith and Confession - but one has to include everything. The Bible as a whole paints a more complex picture. The priest who confirmed me said that Catholic teaching could be summed up in Galatians 5:6.
 
De_Maria said:
Mortification has come to mean several things which are not necessary to justification. However, at its core, it means dying to oneself. And that is absolutely essential to justification. One must die to sin and be born again in Christ.

You’re sort of using salvation and justification interchangeably. They have much in common but are not synonyms.

As for salvation, the Sacraments are not indispensible for Salvation. We know this because the Church teaches Baptism of desire and of blood. If then, the Sacrament of Baptism is not absolutely indispensible and it is the doorway to the rest of the Sacraments, then none of the Sacraments are indispensible.

Perhaps you’ll find this interesting. Let me know what you think.

Sincerely,

De Maria
Click to expand...
I’ll take your note on them [justification and sanctification] not being synonyms. I’ve thought of changing the book title to “The Story and Way of Salvation”. It’s a work in progress.

I looked up your blog entry. As far as I’ve studied baptism is initial justification, but certainly the actions prior to it would prepare a person. Interesting.
 
josephback said:
Rob,

Hi. I’m pretty sure about what’s required, I just started the thread to make sure I’m not missing anything. I think the reference you cite could be an example of faith and Confession - but one has to include everything. The Bible as a whole paints a more complex picture. The priest who confirmed me said that Catholic teaching could be summed up in Galatians 5:6.
Click to expand...
joseph,

“Faith active in love” is of course important. There is no real faith without love. But it does not mention justification.

Jesus plainly said the tax collector walked from the temple “justified.” So it seems to me the parable is a most relevant clue to what the word means. What was not said is just as important as what is said I think. We are told nothng about the tax collectors faith except he had enough faith to sincerly repent. We are told nothing about love in his heart although one must presume if he really believed he was forgiven, it would have changed him on the inside per Luke 7:47. In fact we dont even know if he could accept if he was truely justified in Gods sight. We only know he repented and walked from the temple “justified.”

Perhaps Jesus intended that we take a lot of time on this parable and not put it aside?

Rob
 
PJM said:
Joseph if you remove the word “indespensible” for Confirmation and the Last Rites your FAR closer to the trurh. EXTREMELY helpful; YES! Essential; NO!🙂

In an absolute sense what is needed is:
  1. God’s Grace [accepted and correctly applied]
  2. Faith [a result of Grace and it too is a GIFT from God]
  3. Baptism by water and the Spirit [or if required by Blood or Desire]
  4. Dying “In the state of Grace” [No unconfessed or unforgiven Mortal Sins]
  5. Obeying ALL that God commands and Mandates:
    the commnadments
    All Dogma’s
    ALL Doctrines
    ALL Church teachings on “faith beliefs” and or “Morals”
  6. Acts of Charity
These are the ESSENTIALS:thumbsup:

God Bless and good luck with your book,

pat /PJM
Click to expand...
Can I just check (since I’m a Protestant) that since all of the above are essential, does it mean that ‘Christians’ who do not fulfil all of the above criteria will not be justified?

I wrote a paper of which I devoted some paragraphs to addressing and defending the RC’s view of justification. It is far from comprehensive, since my main audience was to Protestants so I did not want to go broader than necessary. You can have a look at it if you want.

There are some books I found particularly helpful in my research
  1. I cannot find the original article, but its in ’
    Armstrong, John H. Roman Catholicism: Evangelical Protestants Analyze What Divides and Unites Us. Chicago: Moody Press, 1994.’
    Its actually a compilation of write-ups I think, of which I found the one by Alister E. McGrath particularly helpful. (There are some other authors which I find rather offensive, so you might just want to read McGrath.)
    Ok I just found the title, "Chapter 9. What shall we make of ecumenism? by Alister E. McGrath.
  2. Toon, Peter. Protestants and Catholics: a Guide to Understanding the Differences Among Christians. Ann Arbor, MI: Servant Books, 1983.
  3. Several of Karl Keating books (I only know of 3).
U might want to read the reviews about it 1st, since I’m unsure if such stuff is very basic for a regular Catholic.

Hope it’s helpful 🙂
 
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