What exactly is Nirvana?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Charlemagne_III
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Charlemagne_III

Guest
Is Nirvana like the Christian heaven?

Is Nirvana where worthy souls go when they die?

Is it purely a psychological state in this life that ends with this life?

If it does not end with this life, where is it?

What does one have to do or be to attain it?

Your thoughts.
 
I’m not a buddhist, but I’ve been taught at school (during comparative religion) that nirvana was the highest state of mind in which you’re immune to lust, confusion and other such earthly desires and annoyances. Nirvana literally means something like “extinguished”, because once you achieve this kind of peace in your mind, you’re liberated from being reborn over and over again.

Nirvana sounds a bit like the Epicurean idea of ataraxia or “tranquility”; meaning freedom from stress and fear. Side note: Epicurus has often been accused - wrongly - of being the philosopher of “party 'till you drop”. Nothing could be further from the truth. His idea of ‘pursuing pleasure’ is better defined as ‘avoiding pain.’
 
Nirvana literally means something like “extinguished”, because once you achieve this kind of peace in your mind, you’re liberated from being reborn over and over again.
On whose authority are we told that we are “reborn over and over again”?
 
On whose authority are we told that we are “reborn over and over again”?
That is the buddhist belief in reincarnation. If you’re enlightened, you’ll remember your past lives and if you achieve nirvana, you’re freed from these rebirth cycles.

Personally, I don’t believe any of it.
 
That is the buddhist belief in reincarnation. If you’re enlightened, you’ll remember your past lives and if you achieve nirvana, you’re freed from these rebirth cycles.

Personally, I don’t believe any of it.
Nor do I, but there has to be a Buddhist in this forum who can answer on whose authority we are reborn again and again.

Was it on the authority of Buddha?

Who enlightened him and assured him that reincarnation was a fact?
 
Nibbana is release from samsara - the cycle of birth and death. Release from it can only occur through following the Noble Eightfold Path and having meditative insight into the Four Noble Truths and the “three marks of existence” = impermanence, the reality of suffering caused by cravings and not-self. The goal is to become an arhant (enlightened, liberated person).

It is described as the highest happiness and the other shore. It is unconditioned.

The closest cognate to this in Western thought is apatheia, the monastic goal of the Desert Fathers. The fundamental issue for Evagrius and the Desert Fathers was clear thinking, which is to say clear insight. The Desert Fathers called this ‘apatheia’ which means ‘passionlessness’ of the mind or a state of imperturbable calm. This is where we get the word ‘apathy’ from in English but it’s a poor description of the original meaning of being undisturbed by passionate thoughts born of attachments to objects of sense. Angelus Silesius, a much later Roman Catholic contemplative, described it thus:

“…He has not lived in vain
who learns to be unruffled
by loss, by gain,
by, joy, by pain…”

If this state of mind was achieved, this apatheia, the monks believed that they could understand God’s purpose “undistorted”. I’ve heard Buddhists speak often of “equanimity”.

The goal is then apatheia, to become undisturbed by mental images or thoughts at the time of prayer - so-called “imageless prayer”. Thus, free from the distorting effects of uninhibited passions, a monk would begin to see more clearly the revelation of God’s purpose - that is, understand the nature both of mind and the physical universe. Abbas Evagrius again:
"…Christianity is the teaching of Christ our Saviour. It is composed of the ascetical life, of the contemplation of the physical world, and of the contemplation of God.
The Kingdom of Heaven is apatheia [imperturbable calm, dispassion] of the soul along with true knowledge of existing things.
The proof of apatheia is had when the spirit begins to see its own light, when it remains in a state of tranquillity in the presence of the images it has during sleep, and when it maintains its calm as it beholds the affairs of life.
The spirit that possesses health is the one which has no images of the things of the world at the time of prayer.
The ascetic life is the spiritual method for cleansing the soul…"
- Abba Evagrius Ponticus (345-399 AD), Early Desert Father
 
Is Nirvana like the Christian heaven?

Is Nirvana where worthy souls go when they die?

Is it purely a psychological state in this life that ends with this life?

If it does not end with this life, where is it?

What does one have to do or be to attain it?

Your thoughts.
Nirvana is formed from ni[r]- (ni, nis, nih) with vâ[na] (Pali. vâti). It can mean without (“to get rid of”) “dense forests”, of desires, i.e., material attachments.
 
Is Nirvana like the Christian heaven?

Is Nirvana where worthy souls go when they die?

Is it purely a psychological state in this life that ends with this life?

If it does not end with this life, where is it?

What does one have to do or be to attain it?

Your thoughts.
I’ve taken university courses on Buddhism and Eastern religious traditions. I’ve also taken educational courses led by Lamas in the Vajrayana Buddhist tradition from Tibet. One of my younger brothers is also Buddhist. However, many Indian thought-systems have different ideas on what Nirvana is. I assume you mean the Buddhist concept?

Is Nirvana like Christian heaven?

No. Nirvana means extinguishing and it is not at all like we understand Christian heaven. It is not concerned with a delineation between the state of being alive or dead. The aim of Buddhism is to extinguish attachments to things because attachments will cause us, and ultimately all sentient beings, to suffer. It is not a place but a state of seeing reality for how it really is and not being delusional about our own existence as separate from all other cognizant beings (including gods, demons, viruses, everything).

Depending on which Buddhist tradition, or even in some other Indian religious systems, the way and timing of entering Nirvana can differ widely.
The Buddhist tradition most common in my area (Colorado) is Vajrayana style which means the Lightning Vehicle. They believe we can reach Nirvana within a matter of years in this one life, not after many reincarnations.

Is Nirvana where worthy souls go when they die?
Again, Nirvana is not a place, but a state of seeing reality as it actually is. We cannot “go” there because we are all already there but have failed to realize it because we are distracted by our attachments in this life (to extreme feelings, gods, etc.).

Is it purely a psychological state in this life that ends with this life?
In Buddhism, I think they would say my life is not my own to lose and Nirvana is not a personal thing. All sentient beings are already in Nirvana, but we have become distracted by the cycle of grasping, attachment, suffering, rebirth. A psychology assumes there should be a singular ‘person’ for evaluation, but there is no ‘self’ that exists to ‘give away’ Nirvana upon dying.

If it does not end with this life, where is it?
We are already existing in this reality but we have become distracted.

What does one have to do or be to attain it?
There are infinite paths to freeing ourselves from delusion, but in the Buddha’s experience, accepting the Noble Truths and following his moderate Eightfold Path and finding refuge in the Law, Community of Tradition, and the Buddha we can quickly enter that state in this human life which is the rarest incarnation and a precious chance to leave the cycle of death and rebirth.

A rather helpful description I’ve heard from a monk is that Enlightenment is like being ill. We are aware of our illness and we are suffering, but it is not how we are by default. We slowly heal and then finally one day, at one moment we realize that we are no longer ill and we have been moving through our life without this suffering still. At this point, we have seemingly limitless energies to help all others who are suffering still. This is what Nirvana is like: it’s not a huge cosmic explosion with psychedelic colors and sitars playing in the background as Western images might have us expect.

Hope this is accurate! Any Buddhists please correct me.👍
 
Nor do I, but there has to be a Buddhist in this forum who can answer on whose authority we are reborn again and again.

Was it on the authority of Buddha?

Who enlightened him and assured him that reincarnation was a fact?
It’s not on authority really but rather Indian cosmology of the universe. Like Christianity came from Judaism, Buddhism came out of a time of great religious upheaval and revolution in India. The Buddha is drawing on Indian understanding of the Universe. In this understanding there are not many separate beings but One Being and so lives can never cease to exist because that would mean the One Being (“God”) dies. God doesn’t die. It comes from their observation that all living things are connected, and this is a fact. If I slap you, it hurts your face and makes you feel sad or angry. Nobody needs this revealed to them, that’s just how things are. Ancient Indians saw how we affect each other as evidence of our connection in a oneness. All of this together was God. This is just their way of conceptualizing things even from very ancient Vedic times.

But specifically upon the Buddha’s Enlightenment he was able to see all of his past incarnations and also understand when seeing them, why he was reincarnated as some other state.

He enlightened himself by his own work, and by his advice, so can any other suffering being. There is no deity granting this status as is understood in Abrahamic or other pagan systems.

In order to understand Buddhism, we have to completely try to understand the totally different ideas about very basic concepts from a Western understanding: deity and mortality, the shape and behavior of time, life and death, the universe. The Indian religious traditions think about all of these very differently so it helps to not bring our Western assumptions to discussions of these topics in non-Abrahamic Eastern religions. For starters: there is no God as we define Him being a singular and separate and all-powerful being. Time is also very circular, not linear. etc.
 
From what has been said, Nirvana can’t come close to the utter joy of the Beatific Vision.

I resolve to remain a faithful Catholic.
 
From what has been said, Nirvana can’t come close to the utter joy of the Beatific Vision.

I resolve to remain a faithful Catholic.
You know I used to be Buddhist, I think that might be a good idea. There’s a lot that’s beautiful and Buddhism but the concept of the afterlife or lack thereof because there is no soul the way we know it in a lot of forms of Buddhism, so it’s not actually your soul that would be reincarnated if you were to be reincarnated for instance, it would be your will. Nirvana is supposably the highest state of mind you can reach Detachment from all things and finding out basically that you’re not real. Buddhism has many lovely believe so many lovely things but unfortunately a lot of things that does have are incompatible with the Christian belief friends dance although I wouldn’t say Buddhists believe that material is evil you might get to the point during Nirvana Where you don’t believe in material exists. Buddhism on its foundation is agnostic the Buddha himself did not mention the need for a Creator and laughed when asked about one, although there are some forms of Buddhism that do allow for deities. The two main schools of Buddhism Are Mahayana and theravada, and even what they believe with regards to reincarnation with regards to the existence of deities with the regards to Buddhas before them is I would say more difference than Sunni and Shia Islam or Protestant and Catholic Christianity. They don’t even agree with what Nirvana it is so asking what Nirvana is well it really depends on which Buddhist you ask.
 
From what has been said, Nirvana can’t come close to the utter joy of the Beatific Vision.

I resolve to remain a faithful Catholic.
Amen! And we are so blessed to have Doctors of the Church on prayer… St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, and St. Therese of Lisieux.

The Church, down through the centuries has added to the wonderful store of knowledge about prayer and how to grow spiritually.
 
Thanks Adam and Dorothy for your insightful comments.
RPRPsych, you crack me up!
 
It’s not on authority really but rather Indian cosmology of the universe. Like Christianity came from Judaism,…

But specifically upon the Buddha’s Enlightenment he was able to see all of his past incarnations and also understand when seeing them, why he was reincarnated as some other state.

He enlightened himself by his own work, and by his advice, so can any other suffering being. There is no deity granting this status as is understood in Abrahamic or other pagan systems.
So Buddhism depends entirely on the experience of a human, not the revelation from above of a Supreme Being.

Which sounds very atheistic and without anything but human authority claimed for its truthfulness.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top