What exactly is people's beef with feminism here?

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FaithChem said:
My problem with feminism as a guy is the dismissive tone when it comes to the challenges men face, the divisive way the majority speaks about men, and their overall priority of issues. Melinda Gates and her posse of “women’s rights” people are amassing funds for the “unmet need for contraception” in developing nations. In nearly every election and groups like Mrs. Gates’ the sun rises and sets on contraception and abortion. I mean these people give more time and energy towards sex issues than anything else. Instead of pumping the developing world with contraceptives and making abortion look attractive why don’t they build schools? Education naturally brings down birth rates AND creates a civilized citizenry. That’s 2 big birds with 1 stone. Spending millions or billions so people can have “consequent free sex” over of clean water, food, and education is ridiculous to me.

Sandra Fluke put a great amount of time and energy in her crusade for free birth control in this country when there are countless other issues that she could have drawn attention to (i.e. Selective Service equality for women, better parental leave laws, divorce law equality, and prison sentence equality). Of coarse when it comes time to give up the goodies the feminists are quiet or just pay lip service to the issues at hand. When it comes to sex though they are on top of that (no pun intended).

Also, if you are a male and disagree with ANYTHING the majority stands for you are a misogynist to them. The use that word like its going out of style. If you are a woman that disagrees with the feminist majority well, you are just a man with boobs according to state PA senator Babette Josephs. Last time I checked feminism was supposed to be about women being able to speak independently. I guess that only applies sometimes. Hypocrisy much?

I personally think the feminist movement has morphed into an anger movement. It has become very emotionally irresponsible and hypocritical. Voting rights, owning property, jobs, and so forth were great and noble accomplishments. These however are basic civil rights. There is nothing feminine about them as the term “feminism” suggests.

As it is said in Bible “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?” Matthew 7:16
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Hah, then I must be a man with boobs.

I simply hate how women’s health has been perverted to one single buzz word, abortion. Ironic, considering all over the world, unborn women are the chief victims of abortion.

However, I do abhor the double standard. Growing up, I know a lot of so called Catholic men who feel perfectly free to have mistresses and cheat on their wives and consider it their masculine privilege. These men had two households, one for their wife and another for their mistress, and had children by both. Their wives would look the other way and say men will be men.
 
Small note on pay levels. If one does not have the opportunity to ‘pick and choose’ jobs and one must survive, a fem will pick a lower paying job, but not really as a matter of ‘choice’. I have had over 200 college creditable hours, never once allowed to work at the level of my major, nor specifically in my field. I am nice, I am softspoken. They do not see these as ‘leadership’ qualities, yet my style is that of a combination of several in the Harvard Business Review. So much for the prevalent barbarian authorities where I’ve had to try to find employment. The thugs at lower levels where I have been able to work, resent that I don’t use the pushy, tough broad management styles, (I don’t tell them I’m borderline gifted/genius in organization -spatial relationships) do not like my rapid organization of things, the fact that I do not gossip nor ‘kiss up’-thinking that they would have to do the same or the same would be expected of them. They work their best and have been very successful in getting rid of me, i.e. shake the dust from my sandals and move on.

Many people promote the double standards and raise their children with those in play, their little ‘toughie’ and all the things that are wrong about pushing ‘masculine’ traits, instead choosing barbarian thuggism…men don’t cry…thus little boys are not to cry, not to get hugs, and when a pain, sent to go play, whereas a fem in the home has chores to do or go to her room so as not to be underfoot. Oh yes, boy books and girl books, boy clothes and girl clothes…it goes on and on…“No son of mine…”, glorify his accomplishments especially around the house…we are to be in awe if he is a chef and cooks dinner…while daughter does this how often? Yet, what if she checks and tops up the oil in your car…"how stupid’?
 
mark_a said:
People here, as the title of the thread asks.

My post is, of course, an over-simplification. I’m not a member of the he-man-woman-hater club. In my opinion, women are the fabric of society. Women hold society together.

Women the world over are done a huge disservice by the type of feminists that are given a voice by the national media. And like it or not, the media gives these she-woman-man-haters a voice that overshadows God-fearing feminists who really do want to better the world by making things better for women and their families.
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Which then leads people to wrongly reject feminism altogether, as the ones in the media are all they see. Like I said, it’s like the Jesuits - the only time the media cares to cover one is when they’re heterodox, so people come with the impression that that’s what all Jesuits are like. Our media, after all, seeks to make money, and they figure that appealing to stereotypes makes more money than telling the whole truth.
 
Sarcelle said:
Hah, then I must be a man with boobs.

I simply hate how women’s health has been perverted to one single buzz word, abortion. Ironic, considering all over the world, unborn women are the chief victims of abortion.

However, I do abhor the double standard. Growing up, **I know a lot of so called Catholic men who feel perfectly free to have mistresses and cheat on their wives and consider it their masculine privilege. **These men had two households, one for their wife and another for their mistress, and had children by both. Their wives would look the other way and say men will be men.
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Bold 1:
Sadly this is true is some countries like Italy. I’m not sure that it holds true in the US. In either case that is perversion of what true masculinity is about. To me, true masculinity is about giving as God gives, unselfishly. It also means being devoted to the ones emotionally dependent on you like your kids and wife.

Bold 2:
This is the problem. Women didn’t credit them for being able to do better. If you told your child they were stupid and couldn’t get better than a D in school why would they try for an A?
 
marymary1975 said:
I haven’t read all the responses so sorry if i repeat what has been said but i wanted. To give you my view. Personally and especially as a female who is a professional, with a daughter, and someone who at some point was a victim of domestic violence, you can be sure I am all for women to be treated fairly in society, for having the right to have the same opportunities as men and I am fiercely against violence against women. however I find a lot of things I dislike about feminism of course the fact that there are some radicals full of hate. First of all, most feminism, and most by far, tackle the issue of women’s disparities by encouraging wrong behavior instead of calling for men to adapt good behavior. Double morals is an issue in society but why feminist have to promote in order promiscuity for women instead of calling men to be faithful? I have read tons of feminist website, articles, meet with feminist group, etc. And all encourage women to set free from the double morals of patriarchy by being sexually liberal. Their view i@ men have been promiscuous them women have a right to do it too. What about teacing men to NOT be promiscuous? Whenever I say that they look at me like crazy and think I am oppressed by patriarchy. And the same goes for many issues and as I said, I have yet to find a feminist.group that doesn’t approve sexual promiscuous behavior because in their mind that is freedom.

Second, feminist, even non radicals, take things to the extreme. Your body your choice, you can do whatever you want with your life and nobody can tell you anything about your decisions. That kind of mentality is the most negative thing I have seen. While people should have the right to make decisions over their life, you can’t do whatever you want. If your decisions affect the life of third persons of impact negatively your life you should not be be congratulated for doing it and sometimes people do need others to tell them what they are doing wrong. Feminism wants to sell the idea that right or wrong doesn’t exist which is a lie. There is a right way of doing things and a wrong way of doing things and there is a society in which the mentality of my life my way may not work very well. Another extremist thing in feminism, victim shaming. While is true that a victim should never be shamed for a crime telling women that saying " don’t want walk alone through a dark alley" is victim shaking is irrational. Yes, is true that men should not rape but like it or not crime exists in our society and taking measures to avoid crime are not victim shaming. And I can go on for an entire day with things similar that are taken to the extreme by feminism. I have a great issue with that.

Third, feminism removes people’s responsibility over things places it on an abstract thing…patriarchy or society… and promotes irresponsible behavior. Abortion, contraception, etc. I have yet to find one feminist group that is pro life. Even the less radical groups (which I tend to read because they are more about fairness) tend to ne heavily pro abortion.why instead of promoting contraception and abortion they don’t promote responsibility…if you don’t want a child don’t get pregnant, don’t have sex if you are not ready? Then they all blame and whine over the patriarchy. While iS true that there is a culture in society that is unfair with women truth is unless you are living in Iran or Saudi Arabia there is no organized societal structure stopping women from anything. Feminism teaches that there is which again is a horrible mentality. Many women have been able to reach success in this country. How come patriarchy didn’t stop them? Feminism says that they want to empower women but their empowerment is totally wrong. They teach empowerment comes from doing whatever you want, not true. Empowerment comes from pitting your big girl. Pants, learn that you are responsible for your own actions, looking up to Tue people who have been successful, taking the right decisions and work towards your goals like if there are no limitations.

I can keep on with a huge list of other things totally wrong with feminism but those three are the main, plus I am sure other people have posted other important things like radical feminism, etc.
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I like what you say here. One thing, however: there is a feminist pro-life group called Feminists for Life. Look them up (Google) They are quite impressive.
 
I am really, really fascinated by gender and gender roles. Naturally, that means I am drawn to a lot of feminist opinions. However, I don’t call myself a feminist because I am not pro-choice and I don’t want to legalize gay marriage.

That said, I have learned a ton from feminists. Not just about gender, but about racial inequality as well. I have learned about male privilege and white privilege. I have read a lot of very thought-provoking observations of how women are depicted in media. I have learned about “rape culture” and learned to express feelings that I could not quite put into words. I am still fascinated and learning more and more about all the ways that we judge people and react differently to them based on gender.

I do think we still need something akin to feminism, because there is still inequality in the world. No, I don’t think gender inequality is as important a cause as saving the unborn and helping the poor and the mentally ill. But I do think it is a noble cause. Why not be mindful of it? Why not try to make the world a better place, in however small a way?

That’s what I think, anyway. Feminism as a movement is something I can’t be a part of, but I still like feminism as an idea. 🤷 🙂
 
Hi Skwrl, thanks for your comments. I think they are worthwhile bringing up because, as you rightly point out, some people have unjust hostility to what they understand as feminism. Just to respond to some of your comments.
Skwrl said:
I assume that the denouncers here are working with a different definition of “feminism” than my own, because I thought that, in general, feminism is the idea that women should be treated fairly in society, in the workplace, in media, in matters of law, etc. Wasn’t it the Feminist Movement that gave women the right to vote here in America? Isn’t that a good thing? I mean, I’m sure none of us here would argue that women DON’T deserve to be treated fairly.
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I think we need to distinguish between the Suffragette movement, which helped to achieve the franchise for women (and was predominant in the late 19th and early 20th centuries) and the Feminist movement, which began mostly in the 1960s and has continued, though in more disparate forms, today.

Certainly, wherever feminists aim to achieve equality for women (by which I mean justice and fair treatment, respect as human beings as opposed to “sameness”), we as Catholics should applaud and support them. Indeed, we should be feminists ourselves, as God is a feminist in this case.

However, I think the main issue with Christians and Catholics is that feminism also has strange bedfellows…
Skwrl said:
Now, I know that everyone thinks of feminism differently… I know that a lot of people who support abortion do so in the name of feminism, and I personally have a very self-proclaimed feminist friend who’s a borderline mysandrist. I acknowledge that because the definition of feminism is so vague, it can attract some negative connotations. But I always figured that the basic idea was noble, even if some people go about it the wrong way.
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I think you’ve hit on the reason why feminism receives such bad press on this forum. It isn’t so much that feminism is used as a means of promoting abortion, same-sex marriage, gender “sameness”, etc. but because prominent feminists and feminist theory tends to do so, such that publicly and academically, it is difficult to separate feminists from feminism and consequently these extreme views from feminism. This is very much true with theologians as well, for example, the feminist Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza, who give feminism a bad name in the Church by attacking the male priesthood, God as “Father”, and so on.

As you rightly say, we should stand for a feminism that is “properly ordered toward what we as Catholics know is good”.

God bless you.
 
Cojuanco said:
By what do you mean? That all feminists support abortion?
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Absolutely not. But that you are correct by stating:
they figure that appealing to stereotypes makes more money than telling the whole truth.
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In other words, media gives pro-abort feminists who support media’s pov a platform because their sponsors like it that way.

It is a presumption on my part that not all feminists are pro-abortion.
 
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As a 62 year old upper level manager, I can tell you this:

Diversity has morphed more into “you will find a qualified women for that job”. That (name removed by moderator)ut is tied directly to the “feminist” view point in many men’s view.

Positions have gone unfulfilled for months, interviews of marginally qualified women have happened so that one can fulfill the requirement of reviewing a diverse slate of candidates. By the way, this movement is not in functional areas where women have excelled, like Accounting, HR, IT. The push is to find engineers, technicians, i.e. highly technically oriented women.

After months of trying, oftentimes a marginally qualified women is hired…to comply. You see the problem is that even after decades of effort, and the fact that more women are in colleges now than men, the core businesses simply cannot find them.

Then when we do, and remember in the US we have cut staffs considerably…there simply is NO backup resources anymore. Women take months of maternity leave. If we are lucky we can hire temps to help…but the rest of the workforce is already at peak capacity. (full disclosure…my wife completed 30 years with AT&T in 2009 and has enjoyed retired life taking care of our grandkids. We could write a book on dual career couple raising children in a Christian manner)

So work goes undone, done with less effectiveness, etc. At the same time, we who remain as the leaders, for better or worse, are usually the ones that take all the grief. So is it any wonder why outside the corporate walls, when the leaders can unwind and ponder their situation, that you might see just a tiny bit of resentment?

Personally, I depend on my Faith to stay above all the “stuff” I note above. I know Christ wants me to be compassionate and caring, and somehow, someway persevere. But when I see folks question why there would be a concern, I chuckle at the naivety. I certainly can understand those who would feel misused and abused by the feminist movement that drives a part of the Diversity mandates around the world
 
I didn’t read the entire thread, but wanted to let you know that there are pro-life feminists out there. My main problem with feminists before I found this out was because of their position on abortion and knowing some who were such rabidly hateful people and really hated men, actually taking some of the worst attributes of humanity. So, it would upset me when I was “accused” of being a feminist if I expressed a problem where I thought my sex was really being treated wrong. (I don’t even consider myself one.) It’s a shame that the pro-abortion group of feminists have so much “air-time”. But I have since met “normal” women who are feminists and are also pro-life and don’t mind now if I’m ever branded as being one again.

feministsforlife.org/

So many of the early feminists were actually very pro-life and looked at abortion as something so horrible, unthinkable and criminal. This secular pro-life blog has an interesting short history about when feminists abandoned the pro-life position “When did feminists abort the pro-life position” and some thought-provoking quotes regarding abortion by the early feminists. One interesting quote by Alice Paul: “Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women.”

blog.secularprolife.org/2013/06/when-did-feminists-abort-pro-life.html

Whether or not any of us agrees with all of the beliefs and opinions of these early feminists or the reasons why these pro-life secularists and feminists are against abortion, I have found that when I’ve introduced my non-religious, atheist and feminist friends and family these two sites, it has actually caused many of them to stop and think. They can’t refute it by saying that these secularists and feminists are using their religion to disagree with abortion. Some have not even been able to say much and one actually had to agree with many of their assertions. It actually opened them up to digging deeper into how screwed up our society is to allow this kind of murder.
 
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