What exactly is the Church's stance on a future marriage with a divorced man?

[katillac1]

Hi everyone,
I have an issue that has been bothering me. I’m in a very serious relationship that very soon might end up in an engagement (we’ve been talking about it). The thing is, is that I’m Catholic and he’s Baptist. He is also a Baptist that has been divorced. I just graduated from college and met him my senior year and we have been in an absolutely wonderful relationship for the last year and a half. He is 4 years older than I am, and so has a little more life experience than I do, especially in the relationship department.
When he was younger he married. He felt pressured into it, and being young, gave in. They were married about a year and then she told him she had been cheating on him and wanted a divorce. He does not have any children out of this and hasn’t had anything to do with her since.
We openly talk and discuss the differences in our religion, and while he agrees to go to mass with me on occassion, I really don’t see him converting ever. At least from where he stands right now. Other than this we are perfect for each other and have no other issues.
We want a relationship with God together, and being married in the Church is something that would be important to me and my family. What is the Church’s views on this kind of circumstance? Will I have problems getting married in the Church at all even if it is not an actual mass, just the ceremony? What about his past history?

 

[Phemie]

As far as the Church is concerned, this man is still married. In order for you to consider marrying him he has to go see a priest and petition for a decree of nullity (an annulment). The Tribunal will look at all the circumstances surrounding his wedding and decide if the marriage was a valid marriage.

Until he does that, and the marriage is found invalid – which is not a given – you can’t be married in the Church.

 

[katillac1]

Ok, so even if the previous marriage had nothing to do with the Catholic Church, he still has to get it annulled? Does this bring the ex wife back into the picture?
On a different level, how do you convince someone to answer to Catholicism when they are not part of the Church?

 

[Joan_M]

Ok, so even if the previous marriage had nothing to do with the Catholic Church, he still has to get it annulled? Does this bring the ex wife back into the picture?
On a different level, how do you convince someone to answer to Catholicism when they are not part of the Church?

All marriages are presumed to be valid, so a decree of nullity must be requested. His ex-wife would be informed by the Tribunal (should they accept the case). He does not have to contact her himself.

Regarding your final question - my thinking on the matter is: if he loves you and you want to get married in the Catholic Church, he will do whatever it takes. True love sacrifices self for the other.

 

[katillac1]

Gotcha, and if the tribunal does not grant an annulment? I guess there is no revisiting that topic? Where would that leave us? Does that force us into a marriage that the Church condemns or not one at all?
Thank you both for your help by the way.

 

[kage_ar]

Gotcha, and if the tribunal does not grant an annulment? I guess there is no revisiting that topic? Where would that leave us? Does that force us into a marriage that the Church condemns or not one at all?
Thank you both for your help by the way.

One thing to keep in mind, the laws of God are higher than the laws of man, and they apply to every human being.

Jesus taught that marriage is for life, it does not end with a civil divorce. What the tribunal does is to see if the marriage was every valid in the eyes of God.

If the tribunal sees there was never a valid marriage, that person - Catholoc or Baptist or any other faith - is free to enter marriage. If the tribunal finds that the marriage was valid, then, that person is not free to marry.

To marry someone who is not free to marry - they are still married in God’s eyes to someone else - would be to commit adultery every time you were intimate. That would separate you from God, leave you in a state of grave sin. You would never want to say that this man is more important to you than God.

If you go to the SHOP icon at the top of this page, you can order a book on annulments that will help you understand God’s teaching on the matter.

Best advice, put the romance on hold until, explain to him that you love God more than him. If the tribunal finds him free to marry, then you can tackle the thought of wanting to marry someone who does not share your faith - that is a whole 'nother discussion.

Prayer for you!

 

[1ke]

Other than this we are perfect for each other and have no other issues.

OK, Kat, read what you wrote above. If “this” were what color to paint the living room, it would be no large matter. But “this” happens to be your religion, your relationship with God. That is a large matter.

Close your eyes and envision your family life when you are married and have children. Are you praying the rosary as a family? Attending Mass? Incorporating Catholic practices such as Lenten abstinence and fasting, Advent wreaths, and others into your home? How about teaching your children the faith?

How does your non-Catholic spouse fit into your Catholic family? How do you answer your children when they ask you why Daddy doesn’t go to Mass? How do you handle moral differences such as contraception?

These are things to think about. I am sure he is a wonderful man. And, I am **not **saying “dump him.” I am saying think about the rest of your life and how important your faith is to you. Discuss these things honestly with your boyfriend. Spend a lot of time thinking about this and talking about this. Don’t gloss over it and think it will all just “work out.” Encourage your boyfriend to attend RCIA-- not necessarily to convert but just to learn about Catholic doctrine and Catholic practice.

What is the Church’s views on this kind of circumstance? Will I have problems getting married in the Church at all even if it is not an actual mass, just the ceremony? What about his past history?

As has been noted, he is married. This is divine law-- what God has joined, no man can separate. Now, there may be circumstances that would indicate this marriage was not valid. That is what the Tribunal investigates.

Get the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. Read it with your boyfriend. This will be money well spent. It answers a lot of your questions and explains the Church’s teaching regarding marriage.

It is important that he find out with certainty his status before you make plans to marry, get engaged, etc. As you have rightly noted, the Tribunal could find that his marriage is valid. In that case, he is not free to marry. That is the Truth and there is no sugar coating. If he is found free to marry, that is wonderful. But, if he’s found not free-- then that’s the end of it. Unless you are willing to commit mortal sin for this man and forfeit the Sacraments in the bargain.

Based on what you have said-- feeling pressure, and her cheating (perhaps even before they were married)-- may be indicators that this is indeed an invalid marriage.

The Tribuanl is the best place to sort this out, and it starts by making an appointment with your parish priest. Please do not delay. And, read the book.

Also, while the Tribuanl will send paperwork to the ex, your boyfriend does NOT have to have any contact with her. And, if she chooses to not participate that has NO impact on the case moving forward. He can go through the process without her cooperation.

 

[katillac1]

Before I get my hands on that book, I have some more questions.
I’ve read it can take up to a year or more to process an annulment. In that time period, can we get engaged? Can we start the premarital counseling before the annulment is finalized?
So if I get engaged to today, it will be a minimum of about 2 years before we can get married?
Also he has not had any contact with the ex, so how is he supposed to provide her whereabouts?

Ok thanks guys, I think I’m done with questions for now

 

[agapewolf]

Before I get my hands on that book, I have some more questions.
I’ve read it can take up to a year or more to process an annulment. In that time period, can we get engaged? Can we start the premarital counseling before the annulment is finalized?
So if I get engaged to today, it will be a minimum of about 2 years before we can get married?
Also he has not had any contact with the ex, so how is he supposed to provide her whereabouts?

Ok thanks guys, I think I’m done with questions for now

It does not appear that you are listening very well. Please read the posts above a few times.

He is still a married man!

Why on earth would you want to get a pretend “engagement” to someone who is still presumed to be in a valid marriage? Like it says above, hold the romance off for now.

Remember…he is a married man. You should be in a “friendship” with him as if he had a wife to go home to.

 

[katillac1]

Ok that just makes me angry.
I didn’t know any of this information before and he’s not aware of the “Catholic rules” at all, so that makes us just as bad as the ex that cheated on him because the Church says that he’s cheating on her with me now???

I cannot in good conscience believe that we are sinning because of what happened. I have more trust in God than that. As far as I am concerned He brought us together and He alone, not a Tribunal has the power to make things right in His eyes.

What am I supposed to do, just break up with him, and tell him he’s still married?

I have tried to have an open mind with this, but this draws the line.

 

[katillac1]

Our “sinful relationship” is a hellofa lot better than that whore cheating of a “wife” I am supposed to pretend he still has. Who, by the way has remarried and has a kid. That is all he knows about her.

 

[agapewolf]

Ok that just makes me angry.
I didn’t know any of this information before and he’s not aware of the “Catholic rules” at all, so that makes us just as bad as the ex that cheated on him because the Church says that he’s cheating on her with me now???

I cannot in good conscience believe that we are sinning because of what happened. I have more trust in God than that. As far as I am concerned He brought us together and He alone, not a Tribunal has the power to make things right in His eyes.

What am I supposed to do, just break up with him, and tell him he’s still married?

I have tried to have an open mind with this, but this draws the line.

Please read all of the posts above again. The civil courts have no say in whether a spiritual marriage takes place. That is GOD’s place. The Catholic church presumes all marriages valid proven otherwise. I don’t understand how that makes you mad??? Should the church only do this when the people want it to? or when it “Works out”?

No one here is condemning you, but it was very clearly pointed out above that he is still a married man. Now that you know this, yes, you are supposed to “put it on hold” because he is a married man.

It doesn’t appear that you do have an open mind about this. I don’t understand what “line” is drawn. Either the church believes him when he made his vows, or the church doesn’t. Right now, the church is presuming that those vows were made in good faith.

The tribunal has no power. The tribunal investigates to what the truth is. PLEASE read the posts above.

 

[Agripa]

Our “sinful relationship” is a hellofa lot better than that whore cheating of a “wife” I am supposed to pretend he still has. Who, by the way has remarried and has a kid. That is all he knows about her.

Dont let the religious formalities revered and so keenly observed by others or even your own anger cloud your heart or your judgment.

Think carefully what the person and the relationship mean to you and follow your heart in this matter. Finding love - if its true and honest - will reflect God in your life.

 

[katillac1]

This is where I’m having a hard time. If the Tribunal has no power, and the ultimate power rests with God, then why is there any investigation at all. I really really don’t understand. Why God needs a Tribunal to tell Him that the marriage was not valid is beyond me.

If Catholics truly believe that God is almighty, full of grace and omnipotent, then this does not make sense.

 

[katillac1]

Thank you Agripa

 

[noclevername]

To be honest I am a little confused too.

Let me ask this question. Say her BF has his marriage annulled through his own protestant church, does that count as an annullment in the eyes of the Catholic church? And I don’t know if protestant churches annul marriages my main point for asking the question is if the Catholic church will recognize other churches annulments.

 

[whatevergirl]

Ok that just makes me angry.
I didn’t know any of this information before and he’s not aware of the “Catholic rules” at all, so that makes us just as bad as the ex that cheated on him because the Church says that he’s cheating on her with me now???

The Church doesn’t operate as a separate entity…without the full consent and authority given to Her by God. The Church is in accordance with God’s views on it…Jesus was clear on divorce. The annulment ‘process,’ allows for people to have an investigation made on their marriage, to see if the marriage was really not something that either party, or one party really understood going in on, or another impediment to it being sacred. It is hard, because you and your bf put the relationship before investigating the Church’s full stance on this, and now you are angry. That isn’t the Church’s ‘fault,’ if you want to follow the Catholic Church, then be thankful you are learning about this now, and not AFTER you civilly marry this man. That’s worse.

I cannot in good conscience believe that we are sinning because of what happened. I have more trust in God than that. As far as I am concerned He brought us together and He alone, not a Tribunal has the power to make things right in His eyes.

It could be that God brought you together, you and your bf sound very much in love. But, if you want to truly follow Catholic doctrine, (which is not manmade by God given doctrine to the blessed Church) then, you have to separate your feelings for your guy, and doing what is right and moral in God’s eyes. You wouldn’t be asking these questions, if you didn’t at some level, feel that perhaps you need to halt the relationship for a while. It’s better to ask questions, and feel hurt, than not ask, and go on living a life that you deep down feel isn’t quite right.

What am I supposed to do, just break up with him, and tell him he’s still married?

I have tried to have an open mind with this, but this draws the line.

I would go with him to see a priest, and discuss the matter with someone objective to your circumstances. That would be the best thing to do, and then make a decision from there. But, your anger is understandable…it happens sometimes when we are unaware of something and then are suddenly enlightened. I hope that he goes through the process of an annulment, and that in the end, he is able for you to marry. It has NOTHING TO DO with his ex. It doesn’t matter if she is remarried. She is in sin, doesn’t mean now it’s ‘ok’ for him to sin. God bless, and keep us posted.

 

[michaelcollins]

Even though I was not catholic at the time, i was married in the catholic church, my marriage ended in divorce, my wife was cheating on me. I petitioned for an annulment because all the women I had ever dated ended up being catholic even though that was not a criteria etc.

I was granted an anullment in less than a year and thereafter ended up getting married in the church again, still not catholic, but later I converted.

I would talk to the priest who is going to marry you and seek his advice, and file for the annulment.

 

[katillac1]

'It is hard, because you and your bf put the relationship before investigating the Church’s full stance on this, and now you are angry."

To be clear,we did not put oursleves into the relationship before investigating with the Church. Like I said he is completely ignorant of the rules, and quite frankly, so was I. To make matters more difficult, we had been dating about a year before I even knew of his previous marriage. It was a misunderstanding- he honestly thought I knew about it and just figured I didn’t want to bring it up. One day I said something to make him realize that I had no idea and he called me later in tears and explained everything.
Also, remember that we are not engaged yet, just still dating. This is why I’m trying to find out about this now.
So what priest? My diocese, or where he was married? We live in different states.

 

[agapewolf]

It makes perfect sense. you see, the tribunal investigates what happened.

By your theory, anyone that wants to say their marriage was invalid, can. That makes no sense at all.

I don’t understand why people think its a bad thing that the Catholic church actually wants to uphold people to their vows. One person’s actions (such as infidelity) does not make the vows invalid.

The church has given us a gift in the tribunal. This is where reading that book is such a good thing for you.