What exactly is the Church's stance on a future marriage with a divorced man?

[MarionMac]

You profess to be Catholic, and that marrying in the Church is important to you and to your family. However, it seems that, and I don’t mean to offend here, that your faith formation and understanding of Church teachings in the area of marriage is seriously lacking.

The Catholic Church presumes that each and every marriage is entered into in good faith and with correct intentions by both parties. The Church presumes this even of non-Catholics. The Church also follows God’s own teachings regarding marriage; any marriage entered into freely, without impediment, CANNOT be dissolved, declared null, etc. A civil divorce only dissolves the legal contract but does not have any effect on a valid marriage; that is where the tribunal comes in. As God himself has not, to my knowledge, issued a declaration of nullity for anyone, the tribunal, with the authority of His Church behind it, investigates the circumstances of a marriage at the time of the wedding to determine if any impediment existed.

Now, from what you have mentioned about his wife (and she is still presumed to be that in the eyes of the Church until proven otherwise) it may well be that there was, indeed, some impediment to a true, valid marriage. Also, if he was quite young, and indeed felt pressured, then that, also, could result in a decree of nullity.

So, take some of the good and accurate advice other posters have given and, if your Catholic faith is truly important to you, aim your friend in the direction of your parish priest.

Interestingly however you say the Church presumes all marriages to be valid even that of non- Catholics. It doesn’t presume that a marriage of a Catholic in another church is valid, making an annulment unecessary! Why does it seem there are some rules for some and other rules for others?

 

[agapewolf]

Interestingly however you say the Church presumes all marriages to be valid even that of non- Catholics. It doesn’t presume that a marriage of a Catholic in another church is valid, making an annulment unecessary! Why does it seem there are some rules for some and other rules for others?

A Catholic is bound by Catholic canon law in form and matter in sacraments. People of other faiths are not.

This is why a Catholic who marries in another church, without the proper permissions, have NOT taken part in a sacrament.

 

[cyndi00802]

If you can get him to agree to go thru the annulment process, that’s great. If the Tribunal finds he cannot be granted an annulment, then you do have another option for you. It’s called an internal forum and goes through a priest. The Tribunal way is an EXternal forum.Check it out - not publiczed…

 

[SarahR]

This is actually the worst advice.

the annullment process is not just a “religious formality”. This is to keep people from commiting adultery. A person cannot marry 2 people (unless the first spouse dies).

“Following your heart” is another way of saying “follow your feelings”. This is how people have affairs, because it “feels” good. One should form their consceince in line with the Church’s teachings, and follow God’s will. Not themselves.

Just wanted to reference Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things.”

 

[MarionMac]

A Catholic is bound by Catholic canon law in form and matter in sacraments. People of other faiths are not.

This is why a Catholic who marries in another church, without the proper permissions, have NOT taken part in a sacrament.

Yes I get this but an annulment is not judging whether a marriage is sacramental, only if it’s valid. So why is validity not the same for all ie non Catholic and Catholic marrying outside the Church? It doesn’t seem just to me.

 

[noclevername]

Yes I get this but an annulment is not judging whether a marriage is sacramental, only if it’s valid. So why is validity not the same for all ie non Catholic and Catholic marrying outside the Church? It doesn’t seem just to me.

That is what i have been trying to ask too. I just dont’ think I am asking correctly. Maybe someone can answer you.

 

[Trivia]

This is actually the worst advice.

the annullment process is not just a “religious formality”. This is to keep people from commiting adultery. A person cannot marry 2 people (unless the first spouse dies).

“Following your heart” is another way of saying “follow your feelings”. This is how people have affairs, because it “feels” good. One should form their consceince in line with the Church’s teachings, and follow God’s will. Not themselves.

I hardly think following your heart is the worst advice - otherwise following the dictates of institutions, even if religious ones, makes us mere unthinking and blind beings. And you twist the following of hearts with the following of feelings. Those are two different things. To want to do something impulsively or based on some instinct is one thing, but considering a matter iin your heart is quite another. I stand by my advice.

And I think the objective jury is still out on whether Catholic teaching is really God’s teaching. God has not in fact told us so and has seemed mute on the topic altogether! However, the Catholic Church has vociferously said they teach what God’s will is and its surprisingly biased towards the continued power and glory of the Church!

 

[agapewolf]

I hardly think following your heart is the worst advice - otherwise following the dictates of institutions, even if religious ones, makes us mere unthinking and blind beings. And you twist the following of hearts with the following of feelings. Those are two different things. To want to do something impulsively or based on some instinct is one thing, but considering a matter iin your heart is quite another. I stand by my advice.

And I think the objective jury is still out on whether Catholic teaching is really God’s teaching. God has not in fact told us so and has seemed mute on the topic altogether! However, the Catholic Church has vociferously said they teach what God’s will is and its surprisingly biased towards the continued power and glory of the Church!

There is so much incorrect and ignorant information here, its impossible to cover it all.

No, the jury is NOT still out. Read the bible. “the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth”.

Christ gave the power to bind and loose to Peter, and bind and loose sins to the apostels.

The church is not biased on the power of the church. This is a huge gross misunderstanding of even the nature of how the church works. Do some research.

Following the “dictates” of the faith, is informing the conscience, according to the natural law of God. 2000 years of unchanged truth certainly stands as Christ promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

If you read the scripture that another poster put from Jeremiah, you will see you advice is bad.

 

[Trivia]

There is so much incorrect and ignorant information here, its impossible to cover it all.

No, the jury is NOT still out. Read the bible. “the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth”.

Christ gave the power to bind and loose to Peter, and bind and loose sins to the apostels.

The church is not biased on the power of the church. This is a huge gross misunderstanding of even the nature of how the church works. Do some research.

Following the “dictates” of the faith, is informing the conscience, according to the natural law of God. 2000 years of unchanged truth certainly stands as Christ promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

If you read the scripture that another poster put from Jeremiah, you will see you advice is bad.

The Church, sadly, is but a mere shadow of its once-grand past as a world power. Too bad it can’t form the consciousness of the ignorant peasants to its every dictates as once it could before the rise of the modern era, education and democracies which abolished the power of the heaven and hell myths. Alas, alas, for Rome has all but disapeared and whatever Peter binds or looses these days are but memories.

 

[Sillara]

Yes I get this but an annulment is not judging whether a marriage is sacramental, only if it’s valid. So why is validity not the same for all ie non Catholic and Catholic marrying outside the Church? It doesn’t seem just to me.

It’s like this.

Sacramental marriages are valid marriages between two baptized persons. We don’t need to think about that for this discussion because a tribunal does not investigate whether a marriage is sacramental, only whether it is valid.

Imagine a Catholic as a resident of Virginia and a non-Catholic as a resident of Ohio. When the Virginian wants to get married, he has to go the courthouse, provide ID, get a license, get the license signed by someone whom the state has qualified to sign, and use the license after 3 days but within 30. When the Ohioan wants to get married, he has to do most of the same things, but he has the option of getting married immediately after receiving the license. He doesn’t have to wait 3 days.

[Disclaimer: these are not, to my knowledge, the state laws of these states. These are examples.]]

Now, suppose the Virginian uses his license within 2 days of obtaining it. He is not legally married. He did not follow the rules of his state. It does not matter that if an Ohioan did the same thing, he would be validly married. The Ohio laws do not apply to the Virginian.

It is the same with Catholics. They have a few laws which apply only to them. One of them is the “getting married in proper form” law. They can get this law dispensed, but unless they do, they are not following the laws; they are not married.

So, the Church, which has the authority to make laws for Her members, has ruled that unless a Catholic marries according to the law, he cannot get married. It does not matter if he has a big wedding, if he has a ceremony in a different church, or whatever. He did not follow the laws; he is not married.

On the other hand, the Church’s Catholic-specific laws (like being married in a proper Catholic ceremony) only apply to Catholics. It is perfectly possible to get married outside the Church. It is perfectly possible for the Ohioan to use his marriage license the same day he obtains it. He will be married.

So the Church investigates to determine whether or not the couple were validly (NOT sacramentally) married in the first place.

 

[Marysann]

The internal forum solution cannot be used to solve marriage cases. A marriage is a public act. Please read the following document which can be found on the Vatican website:
/www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.htm

 

[havana7]

Sorry to join this forum so late on but I find myself in a very similar situation.

I met my partner and soon after found out that he was divorced. I felt awkward about the situation and decided not to proceed with the relationship however, he persisted and I’m afraid I fell for him. I was brought up by a strict Catholic family although found myself rebelling in my teens and am not a regular Church-goer. Nevertheless, the religion is still very important to me and my partner and I decided to seek the advice of my parish priest early on even though marriage for us was not on the cards. When we sought advice we had not been together for a year.

I should really give you some background information on my partner’s marriage. He and his ex-wife are not catholic and neither have been baptized into any faith. The marriage was a civil ceremony and lasted about 12 months when they realised that they had been caught up in the moment, too young to understand marriage, and did not truely love eachother. My partner says he felt pushed into the wedding somewhat by both families. The ex-wife has since remarried and has two children. My partner says he does not feel that he has ever been married but has had a “wedding”.

We explained all of this to my parish priest as I was extremely concerned and secretly this meeting was going to make or break the relationship. To cut a long story short, the priest said all was fine and we would be able to marry in the cathloic church without the need for an annulment as there was no religious element in the marriage. This was fantastic news and our relationship has gone from strength to strength.

Two years have passed since that meeting and my partner has proposed. We again went to see the other parish priest (there are two at my chuch) and this one said basically that getting married in the catholic church is a no-no. I am absolutely devastated and really don’t know where to turn. This priest did not answer any of my questions concerning adultery on my part and did not give me anywhere to turn for advice about how to deal with my feelings/thoughts. I cannot discuss this with my family yet as feel I need an unbiased opinion and get things straight in my own head.

What made things worse is that the priest stopped even looking at my partner during our meeting and directed everything at me. I am now so confused. My partner and I have discussed many times that we would raise our children as catholics but surely if we marry and have children the church would consider them illegitimate? I feel I have nowhere to turn and the church has shut its doors on me.

I am also very confused about fogiveness. The priest said that even he would forgive a murderer or a rapist but would not recognise our marriage.

What do I do now? I am extremely happy with my partner. Would God would rather I gave up this relationship with my partner to be on my own rather than have a loving partner and relationship bringing children into the world.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[nodito]

Havana,

It’s a sad thing when priests give us bad counsel. The first priest you spoke with gave you misleading information. Even without a religious component, your partner’s first marriage is presumed valid by the Church. This means that he is not free to date or remarry. I’m so sorry you were led to believe otherwise. If it’s any consolation, your culpability is much reduced having followed the bad advice of a priest.

Your partner needs to seek an annulment if he wishes to pursue marriage with you. It can be a long and tedious process (or so I’m told) but certainly you’re worth it, no? As a faithful Catholic you should not continue in a romantic relationship with this man unless and until an annulment is granted. An annulment is basically a decree after an investigation that says that your partner never validly married his wife and so is free to marry for the first time.

As for the second priest, he should have been able to direct you to to the the tribunal that handles these cases. You can probably find it on your own by calling your diocese’s office. I also recommend finding a book to read about annulments, to give you an idea of what the process will be like. Another poster on this board, 1ke, always recommends a book by Michael Smith Foster called Annulment: The Wedding that Was. I have not read it.

I’m also sorry that this new priest seems to lack tact. He may have stopped directly the conversation to your friend because you are Catholic and he is not. I also imagine that it must be difficult as a priest to tell a couple that seems very much in love that they are not free to marry one another. But he should have handled it better.

The bottom line is, the Church has not shut her doors on you! Far from it! You are part of the Body of Christ and we need you to remain in the Church. I’m sorry that we have failed you in the past. Please forgive us.

But also, please don’t enter into an invalid marriage with this man. The greatest concern is not the legitimacy or illigitmacy of any children; the fact is that if you attempt marriage with a married man, it will be invalid and every time you engage in sexual intercourse you will both be committing adultery. Being in state of mortal sin would prevent you from receiving th Eucharist, and it harms the entire Church as well. Of course you can be forgiven for adultery, just as you can be forgiven for murder or rape, but regardless of how forgiving the Church is, she cannot recognize a marriage that doesn’t exist.

What do you do now? I think if your partner loves you as much as you love him then he ought to want what is best for you, which includes not compromising your salvation and eternal happiness by pursuing marriage with you. He should consider submitting his marriage to the tribunal to discover whether it is valid in the first place. If it is found to be valid, then he should love you enough to let you find another man who is free to marry you in the Church. If it is found to have been invalid, then (and only then) can you set a date and announce an engagement. God doesn’t want you to be unhappy, of course, but he also doesn’t want to see you committing mortal sin because you loved this man more than Him.

I’m no expert on annulments but please feel free to PM me if you need to talk.

God bless.

p.s. Welcome to Catholic Answers! Just so you know, sometimes you’ll get more responses to a post if you start a new thread, especially if it’s been a long time since the original post.

 

[Agripa]

What made things worse is that the priest stopped even looking at my partner during our meeting and directed everything at me. I am now so confused. My partner and I have discussed many times that we would raise our children as catholics but surely if we marry and have children the church would consider them illegitimate? I feel I have nowhere to turn and the church has shut its doors on me.

I am also very confused about fogiveness. The priest said that even he would forgive a murderer or a rapist but would not recognise our marriage.

What do I do now? I am extremely happy with my partner. Would God would rather I gave up this relationship with my partner to be on my own rather than have a loving partner and relationship bringing children into the world.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dixieagle]

Absolutely, positively urge your friend to petition the tribunal for a decree of nullity. Don’t waste any more time.

I’m so sorry you have been badly - and rudely - advised by priests who should know better.

God bless.

 

[Agripa]

What made things worse is that the priest stopped even looking at my partner during our meeting and directed everything at me. I am now so confused. My partner and I have discussed many times that we would raise our children as catholics but surely if we marry and have children the church would consider them illegitimate? I feel I have nowhere to turn and the church has shut its doors on me.

I am also very confused about fogiveness. The priest said that even he would forgive a murderer or a rapist but would not recognise our marriage.

What do I do now? I am extremely happy with my partner. Would God would rather I gave up this relationship with my partner to be on my own rather than have a loving partner and relationship bringing children into the world.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

You have identified a difficult intersection of religious institutional expectations versus personal dreams, hopes and desires. Perhaps I might offer a broader perspective than only from those who are more driven by religious precepts and proscriptions. Most religious traditions encourage its members to refrain from marrying outside the faith tradition. These are human institutions that like to preserve their identity and an adherence by all members.

Furthermore, the Catholic faith has sacramentalized marriage - not all other Christian traditions have done this. This further insulates Catholics and establishes a much stronger possibility that followers will only marry Catholics and produce Catholic offspring, thus securing the faith for future generations. Remember too, you are talking with priests, men who made a choice to forego the deep emotions and natural visceral attractions to women, instead choosing to subsume those instincts into the more abstract “marriage” to an institution. So for them, there is no immediate sympathy for your dillema or dreams, they have the full expectation you will choose “church” over this particular partner! *C’est la religio *

And the Church will naturally tell you it wants you to be happy, loved and fruitful with your chosen partner, but they will moreover want that partner only to be Catholic, even if you must sacrifice what you feel would be happiness as you define happiness.

But in the modern era, as the Church wields less and less power over the personal lives of its followers, particulalrly in more educated countries with strong democratic traditions, individual followers may or may not give up their personal preferences to satisfy the institutional church, for they understand they may act for themselves.

 

[havana7]

Thank you so much for your comments, I don’t know any of you but do feel that I am getting some support. I have also been doing some research as although I agree that the annulment process is probably the first way forward but I want to understand as much as I can about all of this. I have come across the Petrine Privilege, can anyone offer any advice?