What exactly is the knowledge of good and evil?

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Robert_Sock

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It’s tempting to say that God the good and Satan is the evil, but notice especially that it does not state good versus evil, which would imply two Gods, and thus be heresy. No, we live in a world of good and evil. I feel that the good and evil work in conjunction with each other.

According to the Jewish Tanya, there exists two souls within us: The animal soul and the divine soul, which is similar to what Freud termed the id and superego, respectively. Our goal in life, according to the Tanya, is to crush the animal soul, similar to the way we are commanded to mortify the self in Christianity. This may be related to the knowledge of good and evil, but I feel that there is more to it.

Something tells me that to understand this is beyond our grasp, but well worth noting.
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s tempting to say that God the good and Satan is the evil, but notice especially that it does not state good versus evil, which would imply two Gods, and thus be heresy. No, we live in a world of good and evil. I feel that the good and evil work in conjunction with each other.

According to the Jewish Tanya, there exists two souls within us: The animal soul and the divine soul, which is similar to what Freud termed the id and superego, respectively. Our goal in life, according to the Tanya, is to crush the animal soul, similar to the way we are commanded to mortify the self in Christianity. This may be related to the knowledge of good and evil, but I feel that there is more to it.

Something tells me that to understand this is beyond our grasp, but well worth noting.
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I disagree, I say good and evil work in opposition to each other, not in conjunction.
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s tempting to say that God the good and Satan is the evil, but notice especially that it does not state good versus evil, which would imply two Gods, and thus be heresy. No, we live in a world of good and evil. I feel that the good and evil work in conjunction with each other.

According to the Jewish Tanya, there exists two souls within us: The animal soul and the divine soul, which is similar to what Freud termed the id and superego, respectively. Our goal in life, according to the Tanya, is to crush the animal soul, similar to the way we are commanded to mortify the self in Christianity. This may be related to the knowledge of good and evil, but I feel that there is more to it.

Something tells me that to understand this is beyond our grasp, but well worth noting.
Click to expand...
Hi Robert,

Much as the idea of two gods is considered heresy, it is also S.O.P. for a young mind. Indeed, it is the depiction precipitated by the conscience itself. Through the workings of the conscience, there comes a point where the internal motives and capacities are divided into good and bad, and the bad ones are perceived to come from a bad source. The “Star Wars” dualism has a universal appeal, does it not?

So, yes, at the very least we are to subdue the parts of ourselves that lead us and those around us into error and harm, this is a discipline we are called to. However, one can come to reconcile with all of our motives and capacities; we can come to see that all of them come from a benevolent God, so no “crushing” is necessary, they are not going to go away. Instead, with self-awareness we can come to see when those parts of ourselves are triggered, and we can accept them, but watch them (keep them in check). This is true freedom for the human, to be able to love oneself and everyone else as God loves us, to “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”.

Thanks, great idea for a thread.🙂
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I disagree, I say good and evil work in opposition to each other, not in conjunction.
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From our own narrow perspective, yes, they do often work in opposition to each other, but not from God’s perspective (reality). Who is in control of “good,” and who is in control of “evil?” No, we believe in one God who is entirely in control of both good and evil.
 
Robert_Sock said:
From our own narrow perspective, yes, they do often work in opposition to each other, but not from God’s perspective (reality). Who is in control of “good,” and who is in control of “evil?” No, we believe in one God who is entirely in control of both good and evil.
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There is only one God but satan is called the god of this world.
 
truetofaith said:
There is only one God but satan is called the god of this world.
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Do Satan and God oppose each other? No, Satan may very well oppose God, but God does not oppose Satan. It’s God who is in perfect control of all, including the bad angels. If God opposed Satan, Satan would cease to exist.
 
truetofaith said:
There is only one God but satan is called the god of this world.
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No, satan is called the ‘prince’ of this world, not a ‘god’. Although he could be considered a ‘false god’. Better to stay away from thinking of him in those terms altogether.

There is only One Creator.
 
Exactly. Don’t play fast and loose with the concept of one being equal to another.
These “what if” arguments fail to bring forth much fruit.

:twocents:
 
friardchips said:
No, satan is called the ‘prince’ of this world, not a ‘god’. Although he could be considered a ‘false god’. Better to stay away from thinking of him in those terms altogether.

There is only One Creator.
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I was looking for the bible location for it but couldn’t find it.

I don’t consider him a god so cancel what I said.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Do Satan and God oppose each other? No, Satan may very well oppose God, but God does not oppose Satan. It’s God who is in perfect control of all, including the bad angels. If God opposed Satan, Satan would cease to exist.
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That may be so ultimately, but in the meantime, Satan is working against God. You yourself has said it many times. In the end, good (God) will win out, but in the meantime, Satan is stealing as many souls as he can as fast as he can.
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s tempting to say that God the good and Satan is the evil, but notice especially that it does not state good versus evil, which would imply two Gods, and thus be heresy. No, we live in a world of good and evil. I feel that the good and evil work in conjunction with each other.

According to the Jewish Tanya, there exists two souls within us: The animal soul and the divine soul, which is similar to what Freud termed the id and superego, respectively. Our goal in life, according to the Tanya, is to crush the animal soul, similar to the way we are commanded to mortify the self in Christianity. This may be related to the knowledge of good and evil, but I feel that there is more to it.

Something tells me that to understand this is beyond our grasp, but well worth noting.
Click to expand...
Does the Tanya really say we should crush the animal soul within us? I ask this because I know that, according to traditional Jewish teaching, we need the animal soul–which consists of the aggressive self–for self-preservation and preservation of the species. It is just that when the animal soul is excessively abused, it then can become dangerous to us and others. AFAIK, Judaism is not a religion that emphasizes self-mortification or self-denial unlike (perhaps) Christianity and Buddhism. On the contrary, the self has its place in our human lives.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
That may be so ultimately, but in the meantime, Satan is working against God. You yourself has said it many times. In the end, good (God) will win out, but in the meantime, Satan is stealing as many souls as he can as fast as he can.
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Yes, I concur. But how about the question asked in this thread.
 
meltzerboy said:
Does the Tanya really say we should crush the animal soul within us? I ask this because I know that, according to traditional Jewish teaching, we need the animal soul–which consists of the aggressive self–for self-preservation and preservation of the species. It is just that when the animal soul is excessively abused, it then can become dangerous to us and others. AFAIK, Judaism is not a religion that emphasizes self-mortification or self-denial unlike (perhaps) Christianity and Buddhism. On the contrary, the self has its place in our human lives.
Click to expand...
As mentioned in ch. 1, the animal soul’s element of Water gives rise to lust for physical pleasures derived from kelipat nogah. Now, the animal soul’s spirit of lust is the kelipah counterpart of the divine soul’s spirit of love (for G-d). Thus, the divine soul’s intense love of G-d has the power to crush the animal soul’s lust for physical pleasures.
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The animal soul does not really get crushed, you’re right, but the evil pleasures of the animal soul. Do not want to throw the baby away with the bath water! The goal is to elevate the animal soul, not destroy it.
 
Robert_Sock said:
The animal soul does not really get crushed, you’re right, but the evil pleasures of the animal soul. Do not want to throw the baby away with the bath water! The goal is to elevate the animal soul, not destroy it.
Click to expand...
I thought humans have human souls, not animal souls.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Keep in mind that we are animals too.
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Speak for yourself. I am a human, made in the image and likeness of God. The science of biology is blind to the presence of the human soul, therefore places humans in the animal kingdom. They are wrong. Humans are a separate and distinct class of living beings. We have no peers in the animal kingdom.
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s tempting to say that God the good and Satan is the evil, but notice especially that it does not state good versus evil, which would imply two Gods, and thus be heresy. No, we live in a world of good and evil. I feel that the good and evil work in conjunction with each other.

According to the Jewish Tanya, there exists two souls within us: The animal soul and the divine soul, which is similar to what Freud termed the id and superego, respectively. Our goal in life, according to the Tanya, is to crush the animal soul, similar to the way we are commanded to mortify the self in Christianity. This may be related to the knowledge of good and evil, but I feel that there is more to it.

Something tells me that to understand this is beyond our grasp, but well worth noting.
Click to expand...
My understanding of it is that it is the attempt to make good and evil relative, to contrive it for yourself, rather than seek more rigorous understanding of it by co-operation and millennia of philosophical debate and discussion.
davidv said:
Speak for yourself. I am a human, made in the image and likeness of God. The science of biology is blind to the presence of the human soul, therefore places humans in the animal kingdom. They are wrong. Humans are a separate and distinct class of living beings. We have no peers in the animal kingdom.
Click to expand...
Your genome says otherwise. Humans, by virtue of our vast intelligence and ability to understand, have a special place in the universe, and specific offices, but we are still animals, the product of evolution as every other species is. If you have a problem with that is suggest you read this: catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution. Though, I’d still hope you’d trust empirical science over theology in this regard.
 
QuidVeritasEst said:
Your genome says otherwise. Humans, by virtue of our vast intelligence and ability to understand, have a special place in the universe, and specific offices, but we are still animals, the product of evolution as every other species is. If you have a problem with that is suggest you read this: catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution. Though, I’d still hope you’d trust empirical science over theology in this regard.
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I have never heard that we have 2 types of souls: human and animal in Catholic doctrine. Or are you saying otherwise?
 
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