What exactly makes one Christian?

[CutlerB]

I only hope you will remain as adement when we meet our maker. I am not enterring into what is Catholic and what is Christian discussion. I am enterring into what makes a Christian discussion. Christianity covers all those who believe in Jesus Christ fullstop there be a lot of people out in this world who believe in Jesus Christ who don’t go to church. God will know those but we don’t. I am not arguing how we believe in Jesus Christ, but who believes in Jesus Christ in that the believe in Jesus Christ is what makes one a Christian whether they are Catholic or not is totally irrelevent to me in this question and in real life

The thing is, you keep saying “believe in Jesus Christ” without qualifying what that means. Again, by that definition Muslims and Mormons are Christians.

 

[littlepilgrim]

I would like to add a quote from the Catachism of the Catholic Church to this discusion which I think many are already agreeing with “All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.” (CCC 818) I would like to add my own view that I think this must be a valid baptism in The name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church does not rebaptise anyone baptised in the formula and obiously regards them as a Christian.

P.S.
englishredrose you are probably making great comments and the pink text is cute but my it does hurt my eyes. If you want me to read it please make it less glaring.

 

[englishredrose]

The thing is, you keep saying “believe in Jesus Christ” without qualifying what that means. Again, by that definition Muslims and Mormons are Christians.

I am not the judge. God is. It is him who decides what we are if anyone does, not us. I don’t have a problem with that in that I did state not how we believe how as it what set of rules one follows to believes. If a Muslim want to say they are Christian because they believe in Jesus Christ or Mormoms then I really and truelly don’t have a problem with that. Further more I don’t have a problem how people want to define themselves at all. It is how others want to define others I might have a problem with but at the end of it all. The only judge is God. Christianity is just a title that we use to help ourselves. God don’t need that title. He sees our hearts rather than our titles.So for me I really am not worried and keep it simple in that a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ and will add - if that is how they want to be known to others because that is all what the label is for - is for others, not for God, because he knows our hearts and minds and not interested in the title apart from what it does to us…

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I am not the judge. God is. It is him who decides what we are if anyone does, not us. I don’t have a problem with that in that I did state not how we believe how as it what set of rules one follows to believes. If a Muslim want to say they are Christian because they believe in Jesus Christ or Mormoms then I really and truelly don’t have a problem with that. Further more I don’t have a problem how people want to define themselves at all. It is how others want to define others I might have a problem with but at the end of it all. The only judge is God. Christianity is just a title that we use to help ourselves. God don’t need that title. He sees our hearts rather than our titles.So for me I really am not worried and keep it simple in that a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ and will add - if that is how they want to be known to others because that is all what the label is for - is for others, not for God, because he knows our hearts and minds and not interested in the title apart from what it does to us…

Would you agree that there must exist some limit to self definition, lest the word is rendered completely meaningless?

If so, where would you say that boundary lies? That’s what this thread is about: the rational use of language, not any divine judgment of groups of people.

 

[CutlerB]

I am not the judge. God is. It is him who decides what we are if anyone does, not us. I don’t have a problem with that in that I did state not how we believe how as it what set of rules one follows to believes.

God judges whether we were good Christians and how we lived our lives. He won’t say: “Oh, and here’s the definition of Christian from my dictionary.” The question I asked has nothing to do with the Last Judgement.

If a Muslim want to say they are Christian because they believe in Jesus Christ or Mormoms then I really and truelly don’t have a problem with that.

Forgive me, but this is silly. Of course they can call themselves what they want, but that doesn’t automatically make them Christian. People call themselves Christian for different reasons, which, if tolerated, completely blurs and destroys the meaning of the word, unless you have solid criteria that qualifies what Christian means! I could call myself a tomato and insist I am a tomato, that does not make me one! Why not? Because I am not small, round, red and I don’t grow on a plant.

I hope you don’t mind I deleted the colour, it was causing intense pain.

 

[Abbagail]

What makes someone Christian is to believe in Christ and all that He taught.

 

[fhansen]

Christians are people who’ve recognized something in the person of Jesus Christ so profound, so real, so deep and wide and awesome that they can’t deny it and can’t quite take their gaze from it. By finding Him they’ve recognized and found home; they’ve found God.

 

[englishredrose]

Would you agree that there must exist some limit to self definition, lest the word is rendered completely meaningless?
The word is completely meaningless in my opinion.If so, where would you say that boundary lies? That’s what this thread is about: the rational use of language, not any divine judgment of groups of people.

There isn’t any boundaries as God’s Love knows no boundary and whether one says at the very last minute after a brieft glimpse of hell that they decide to love God and enter Heaven is totally of no concern to me. So why does it matter that we have to judge people into little groups and clubs if God loves us as he does. That is what counts for me

 

[englishredrose]

God judges whether we were good Christians and how we lived our lives. He won’t say: “Oh, and here’s the definition of Christian from my dictionary.” The question I asked has nothing to do with the Last Judgement.

Forgive me, but this is silly. Of course they can call themselves what they want, but that doesn’t automatically make them Christian. People call themselves Christian for different reasons, which, if tolerated, completely blurs and destroys the meaning of the word, unless you have solid criteria that qualifies what Christian means! I could call myself a tomato and insist I am a tomato, that does not make me one! Why not? Because I am not small, round, red and I don’t grow on a plant.

I hope you don’t mind I deleted the colour, it was causing intense pain.

Wrote a reply out but cannot be bothered since you obviously want to say I am not Christian because I am not Catholic which is what you mean isn’t it when you ask for a good solid criteria. Fine, I am not worried because I know it don’t matter what the thoughts of you are in that what matters is what God sees not yourselves. So if really want the definition that What makes a Christian are good Catholics then fine. No worries on my part Someone else earlier has already stated that what makes a Christian is someone who accepts the teachings etc of the Roman Catholic Church so I know what direction you are aiming for. If that is how you want to take the conversation then I am happy that you consider me not a christian. Why am I happy? I am because I have a broad mind and don’t feel at all threatend by the definition you want to go with. Peace be with you brother and hope you find the answer you are happy with. :extrahappy:

 

[CutlerB]

There isn’t any boundaries as God’s Love knows no boundary and whether one says at the very last minute after a brieft glimpse of hell that they decide to love God and enter Heaven is totally of no concern to me. So why does it matter that we have to judge people into little groups and clubs if God loves us as he does. That is what counts for me

Because it confuses people.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Well, I don’t know, nor am I giving it any real authority on the subject, but from what I have heard that according to the Courts of the United States of America what make one a Christian is recieving Christain Baptism.

I cases of people coming to the USA under the guise of seeking religious assylym as christains the one and only thing that the Judges wanted to know was had the person received christain Baptism as of all the practise of Christains it is the one that a a person tring to come here that would be a memeber of a terrorist group would not do.

they may go every Sunday to worship services and prayer groups, even study scripture and work and be part of organizations in thier community, but it is being Baptized that makes them Christain.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

So why does it matter that we have to judge people into little groups and clubs if God loves us as he does. That is what counts for me

Because categorizing people, places, and things is what humans do. You seem to bee woefully confused as to what’s being discussed here. No one is judging anyone. We’re discussing how far the label “Christian” can be validly stretched. Definitions not judgements!

Here are some examples:

“A Christian is a person who accepts the Nicene Creed” is a definition.
“Christians are morally repugnant people” is a judgment.

 

[wmw]

The problems (sub listed as lower case letters) of the proposals (numerically listed) for definition of “Christian” thus far presented and the pros associated each (sub listed as upper case letters). Please add to any I have missed particularly any in pink that I mostly skipped reading.

1. Members of historically connected denominations to the Catholic Church and people of good standing within and are presumably also Baptized if provided by this splinter church.
   
   a) There may be churches that were historically connected, but have very deep theological flaws that distinguish them into extremes not recognized as generally “christian” by most “christian” churches.
   
   A) Brings to mind that Christians have some connection to the one Church of the full truth and the rarity of anyone following Christ apart from such a church.
2. Valid Baptism (as defined by the Catholic Church)
   
   a) Many who are Baptized are no longer practicing any form of Christianity. Some may be actively rejecting of Christianity or of religion in general.
   
   b) There may be churches that perform Baptism correctly, but have very deep theological flaws that distinguish them into extremes not recognized as generally “christian” by most “christian” churches.
   
   A) Has theological backing that once Baptized always Baptized either into a “christian” church or in terms of being a Baptized member of the Catholic Church.
   
   B) Is closer to the title question of what singular act creates a member of the Body of Christ.
3. Anyone who wants to call themselves Christian and professing a “belief” in Jesus.
   a) The definition is so subjective and variable as to be useless.

 

[seeker_of_God]

There isn’t any boundaries as God’s Love knows no boundary and whether one says at the very last minute after a brieft glimpse of hell that they decide to love God and enter Heaven is totally of no concern to me. So why does it matter that we have to judge people into little groups and clubs if God loves us as he does. That is what counts for me

What does one’s defined religion have to do with whether one goes to heaven or hell? Even Christians can go to hell, and in fact might be judged more harshly for knowing the truth but not doing enough with it, for instance.

But it doesn’t mean that just anyone is Christian. Like someone said earlier, just because you say you are something, doesn’t make you that thing in reality.

In the early Church, the apostles had a very clearly defined idea of what a Christian was. If someone went against Christian doctrine, then they were rejected as false (Galatians 1:8). Someone couldn’t just preach something else and call themselves Christian. They were removed from the Church and people were warned to stay away from their message.

So I can’t help but think that this all-embracing definition is far from what the apostles would have had us hold.

 

[englishredrose]

Because categorizing people, places, and things is what humans do. You seem to bee woefully confused as to what’s being discussed here. No one is judging anyone. We’re discussing how far the label “Christian” can be validly stretched. Definitions not judgements!

Here are some examples:

“A Christian is a person who accepts the Nicene Creed” is a definition.
“Christians are morally repugnant people” is a judgment.

Sorry am not so un beautifully unaware as you may imagine - I wish I was though then I would leave this alone…

I was asked to come up with a solid criteria.

Also labels you say

How far a label can be stretched.

Label is a judgement a description of a judgement.

no worries though i will remain in my buuuutiiiiifullllly ignorant world or something I am happy to leave this well alone as I know i don’t fit you guys. no worries:blush:

 

[englishredrose]

What does one’s defined religion did i say religion or is it that we are on a religious website i do not know but for me ones religion has nothing to do with heaven and hell accept that heaven and hell are concepts of religion. if one truelly didn’t believe in God then one doesn’t have any concept of Hell or Heaven - carefully put that way around. Think about it.have to do with whether one goes to heaven or hell? Even Christians can go to hell, and in fact might be judged more harshly for knowing the truth but not doing enough with it, for instance. read what I am trying to say rather than what you think I am saying. I actually agree here.

But it doesn’t mean that just anyone is Christian. Like someone said earlier, just because you say you are something, doesn’t make you that thing in reality.

In the early Church, the apostles had a very clearly defined idea of what a Christian was. If someone went against Christian doctrine, then they were rejected as false (Galatians 1:8). Someone couldn’t just preach something else and call themselves Christian. They were removed from the Church and people were warned to stay away from their message.Correct, someone who went against the Christian Doctrine. That is what it says. Not Catholic Doctrine, but Christian Doctrine. The next step is that it Catholic isn’t it but it actually says Christian… All those who believe in Jesus Christ and follow His Doctrin, off course we can add Catholic but and I know I probably be shot again but Catholic is a part of Christian Doctrin not all of it. Christian is broader as I am Christian and support and believe in Christian Doctrine. You have said Christian here and that is correct and am sorry if am getting shot again in the wrong emphasis but am sorry anyway however Christian is the correct wording.

So I can’t help but think that this all-embracing definition is far from what the apostles would have had us hold. Christian or Catholic what are we discussing. And not forgetting the apostles argued hotly amongst themselves too so quite right that some will have thought one and some will have thought another. No different there and we not moved on much really have we in reality. Sadly.

 

[seeker_of_God]

englishredrose, I can’t easily quote you since you put your comments within your quote of my message.

You say Christian and Catholic are not the same. In the early Church, Christian was Catholic; no two ways about it. Heck, as far as I know, the term Catholic was being used before the end of the first century.

So there’s no such distinction as you were saying. For the first 1500 years of the Church, Catholic = Christian and Christian = Catholic. That includes the days of the apostles. There were no baptist apostles, or anglican apostles, etc. Just Catholic.

 

[englishredrose]

englishredrose, I can’t easily quote you since you put your comments within your quote of my message.

You say Christian and Catholic are not the same. In the early Church, Christian was Catholic; no two ways about it. Heck, as far as I know, the term Catholic was being used before the end of the first century. I haven’t ever suggested they are not the same because I agree with you in that Catholics are the early Christians and the current day Christians What I said is that Christians is broader than Catholic. Catholics aren’t the only Christians. There are other denominations in Christianity other than Catholics. That all follow Jesus Christ. They are Christians too.That is what I am trying to say. Nothing about Catholics and Christian not being the same just that Christians cover more than just Catholics…

So there’s no such distinction as you were saying. For the first 1500 years of the Church, Catholic = Christian and Christian = Catholic. That includes the days of the apostles. There were no baptist apostles, or anglican apostles, etc. Just Catholic. No that is not what I am saying. I am saying that there are other denominations within Christianity other than Catholics. There is a whole spectrum of Christians out there other than Catholics. Catholics are Christian but there are others too, Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans and so forth. I believe there are around 23 denominations considered a part of the Christian World as well as Catholics that is what I am trying to say…

 

[CutlerB]

I haven’t ever suggested they are not the same because I agree with you in that Catholics are the early Christians and the current day Christians What I said is that Christians is broader than Catholic. Catholics aren’t the only Christians. There are other denominations in Christianity other than Catholics. That all follow Jesus Christ. They are Christians too.That is what I am trying to say. Nothing about Catholics and Christian not being the same just that Christians cover more than just Catholics…

And that is precisely my question, what needs to be covered in order to be called Christian? It’d be great if we could get back on topic.

No that is not what I am saying. I am saying that there are other denominations within Christianity other than Catholics. There is a whole spectrum of Christians out there other than Catholics. Catholics are Christian but there are others too, Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans and so forth. I believe there are around 23 denominations considered a part of the Christian World as well as Catholics that is what I am trying to say…

Agreed, now please let’s get back.

 

[englishredrose]

Hey - I agree. I can’t help it if people want to unpick words. I am glad you now agree with what I actually said at beginning with that Christians are people who believe in Jesus Christ. I haven’t come up with any more definition or solid criteria, just patiently replied to other posts that questioned what I had said. Which is part of the discussion of what makes a Christian. It is all relevent, far more so than other threads have gone on these boards I might add… I did add about 23 denominations but haven’t said what the criteria is to be considered a christian - denomination.

Some times people interact with each other on these threads and sometimes we have to let that happen. Sometimes others may learn from the interaction and somtimes other may cry with embarrassing shame of what is being said. It is all a part of discussion and learning of which is the point of discussion isn’t it - not just going where you would like it to go. Sorry if you thought it not on track. I didn’t really want to reply but it is within the realm of the discussion and I had nothing to hide so gave my replies. So sorry therefore if by if me joining in and replying to other questions has offended you, it may have been more rude not to have answered the questions when I had answers and wasn’t wanting to avoid and not wanting conflict either. Sorry if this upset you