What first made you a devout Christian?

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anyway… i am so thankful you repented and came (back) to the Lord…

it’s good you don’t beat yourself up so much that you stay away… 🙂
Well, I did beat myself up quite a bit. But it didn’t keep me away, because the Mass was the only thing that eased the pain of it all. Being with Jesus. It didn’t end my pain totally, and there is some that will always be there: the feeling like someone is missing in my life, the pain of loss, the feeling of blood on my hands. It doesn’t just go away, but the Church was the only place on Earth that I could be allowed to feel this pain, acknowledge it, and be consoled. Planned Parenthood and all the so-called feminist organizations call me hysterical, mentally ill, weak. Christ and His Church tell me that I have true mental clarity, that I am strong in Him, and most of all that I am loved. I’ve told people that it wasn’t logical arguments that converted me from atheism (though Chesterton helped confirm my faith). It was love, the witness of love–above all philosophy, above all high minded debates. Maybe that should serve as a lesson to us all when it comes to atheists. Maybe they all need to see love in action. I think it’s harder to do that than to engage in an intellectual argument.

(Not that I am being condescending towards those with true mental illness. What a difficult, but very honorable cross to bear for the love of Jesus. You have that cross for a reason, and you can be a beautiful sign of Christ. I just prefer not to be labelled by NARAL and their ilk as something I am not.)
 
is this the Quakers?

What do you think about the Roman Catholic Church?

ever been to a Mass?

am interested to hear anything you care to share about your spiritual background… thanks…
Yes…Friends are called “Quakers”.

I’ve been to several Xmas mass’, several funeral mass’…regular mass a time or two…“adoration” and “benediction” with some friends who were Catholic. I’ve been to Episcopal eucharist as well…I was pleased to see the similarity between the two…I’ve been to a Divine liturgy many years ago…really didn’t understand too much what was going on…it was at a Russian Orthodox church in San Jose CA with some friends on Pascha…I just knew I stood a long time…the church was beautiful.

I’ve attended many different services by various traditions…but time after time I am drawn back to the Gathered Meeting…it satisfies my soul like no other form of worship ever has.

What do I think of the Catholic church? The same as any other organization…it has it’s good points…it has it’s faults…it does not meet the deep longings of my spiritual needs as does the simple Meeting for worship where the Presence in our midst ministers to us directly and through vocal ministry of those led to share their “openings”.
 
(Jeremiah 17?)
Yep. 17:9
I know that i was 1000% better off saying the ros after reading that bk than if i hadn’t… 🙂
I totally get that. 🙂
so, were you raised Catholic?
No, mostly United Methodist. I became Catholic when I went to college. I had wanted to follow Christ more for some time, and I saw one thing that I needed to do was be an involved, committed member of a specific Christian community. I did that by joining a Catholic Church. I had never actually been a member of my childhood Methodist Church, so I didn’t officially consider myself to be Methodist at the time, just more a Christian who usually attended a Methodist church, but sometimes different places. I knew that needed to change, and from the time I joined the Catholic Church, it did.

I kept most of my old ways of thinking though, at least for awhile. But God had placed me in the right place to hear him clearly, and eventually I started to realize that I needed to change my ways more than I had so far. A simple example is that I learned that you don’t have to be willing to do sins to help people. I had always thought you were obligated to, as long as it was necessary to help someone or other similar consideration, even if every inch of you hated the idea of doing the sin. The idea of absolute right and wrong was a revelation to me. I slowly picked it up over time, sitting there at mass and also reading Catholic books.
 
So - you didn’t "accept" him? He just forced his way onto you?
Interesting . . . :rolleyes:
You might say that, you see I started going to Sunday School and Church when I was about two years old. I went until I was a teenager. I heard the Gospel and all the other things that are taught in a Baptist Church.
As a teenager I wanted to do all the things that a teenager in the 1940’s and 1950’s wanted to do but that Baptist were not suppose to do like going to dances and the movies so I started rebeling.
So I decided that I did not want to be a Christian, but God had other plans for my life. I resisted God until he broke me down and I had to turn too him.
 
You might say that, you see I started going to Sunday School and Church when I was about two years old. I went until I was a teenager. I heard the Gospel and all the other things that are taught in a Baptist Church.
As a teenager I wanted to do all the things that a teenager in the 1940’s and 1950’s wanted to do but that Baptist were not suppose to do like going to dances and the movies so I started rebeling.
So I decided that I did not want to be a Christian, but God had other plans for my life. I resisted God until he broke me down and I had to turn too him.
So, you’re saying you had no choice in the matter?
Your “non-acceptance” and His “forced love” goes against the beliefs of every mainline Christian denomination, not to mention the beliefs of His Catholic Church.


**God reveals himself to us - but it is still our choice whether or not to walk through the door. **Remember what Jesus said:
"Whoever rejectas me rejects the one who sent me" (Luke 10:16)
 
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elvisman:
So, you’re saying you had no choice in the matter?
Your “non-acceptance” and His “forced love” goes against the beliefs of every mainline Christian denomination, not to mention the beliefs of His Catholic Church.
Name one protestant denomination which teaches God “forces His love” onto those who believe. :hmmm:
 
Name one protestant denomination which teaches God “forces His love” onto those who believe. :hmmm:
I never said that. If you read my comment - I said that goes against the beliefs of every mainline Christian denomination.
 
The answer to this question is its first four words. Without God, we are literally not here. All blessings and grace come through Him. I recognize this and so here I am. There’s literally no other place to be. Who can be without God? There are no “non-devout” Christians or “non-believers” in God…only those who think that they are and are wrong.
 
elvi [/quote said:
sman;5026833]So, you’re saying you had no choice in the matter?
Your “non-acceptance” and His “forced love” goes against the beliefs of every mainline Christian denomination, not to mention the beliefs of His Catholic Church.


**God reveals himself to us - but it is still our choice whether or not to walk through the door. **Remember what Jesus said:
"Whoever rejectas me rejects the one who sent me" (Luke 10:16)

God did not force his love on me
God by the work of the Holy Spirit changed my mind or my way of thinking so that I willingly accepted his love.
 
God did not force his love on me God by the work of the Holy Spirit changed my mind or my way of thinking so that I willingly accepted his love.
On this point I think we almost agree, or maybe even do precisely agree. I have never, ever felt like I chose to follow Christ in some kind of vacuum. I mean, I am surely doing so willingly, and choice was involved, but God put me on this path, God made/reformed my heart and mind and nudged them in this direction. I never would have gone down this path “just because”, from unassisted free choice.
 
I was raised Catholic (cradle)… but wasn’t catechized…

Then when i was a teen, i had a conversion experience the Protestants call “born again”

I was really into Jesus for a couple yrs… but then the devil got me (to make a long story short)… and i got lost… and wasn’t catechized… .so really got messed up

Then i picked up a rosary one day and started praying it… To this day, i have no idea WHY i did this… because i didn’t believe in it, to speak of… didn’t think it would do one good thing for me… and felt i didnt’ have time for it…

but it changed my whole life… (some for the worst,but spiritually and etc… for the better)

anyway, eventually i found my way back to the RCC

i was just wondering what first made YOU a Christian?

and what helps you to stay one?
Cradle Catholic myself. My spell in the “wilderness” is what did it for me. I was catechized but always believed that it was by indoctrination rather than my free will that lead me to belief in the Real Presence and that I knew no better. I never had a problem with this, in fact I truly believed the Church to be THE Church spoken and established by Jesus as told to Peter in the NT. However I also believed there was a reason why God allowed Protestantism to emerge and grow and I wanted to know from their personal perspective (rather than from the books I devoured) what the differences was between my Christianity and their (non-Catholic) Christianity. But frankly I felt it was much easier to be Protestant than to be Catholic and didnt think it was such a big deal to God so long as I was Christian and didnt abuse His Church. I wouldnt have to go to “confession” but confess directly to God was a huge attraction for me. 😊 In the end it was the Eucharist that brought me home. I returned on my own free will and am forever grateful to the “indoctrination” of my youth.

The years I spent searching for another church to suit my needs only confused me AND strengthened my belief in His Church’s teaching. I’m still a sinner but now I dont try to brush it under the carpet. 😃
 
**So, you cooperated **with his grace?
I would say NO I did not cooperate with his grace. Just as I could not assist or prevent my natural birth, I could not assist or prevent my spiritual birth.

2 Timothy 1;9 says "Who (God) hath saved us and called us with an Holy calling. It does not say that he saved us with our cooperation. Eph. 2:1 You hath he quickened (made alive spiriually, born again) who were dead in trespasses and sin. Again it does not say with our cooperation.
 
I would say NO **I did not cooperate with his grace. **Just as I could not assist or prevent my natural birth, I could not assist or prevent my spiritual birth.

2 Timothy 1;9 says "Who (God) hath saved us and called us with an Holy calling. It does not say that he saved us with our cooperation. Eph. 2:1 You hath he quickened (made alive spiriually, born again) who were dead in trespasses and sin. Again it does not say with our cooperation.
“God did not force his love on me God by the work of the Holy Spirit changed my mind or my way of thinking so that I **willingly **accepted his love.”

You do not see the parts that I have emboldened as a contradiction? If not then your use of the word “willingly” was inappropriate.

P.S. I do not state that I cooperated in saving myself or that I merited the gift of salvation and ensuant grace that revealed the truth of Jesus as Lord and Saviour, however, after receiving the Holy Spirit am I not to cooperate with it to become and follow Jesus in all his ways. Can the Holy Spirit force me to be Christ-like?
 
“God did not force his love on me God by the work of the Holy Spirit changed my mind or my way of thinking so that I **willingly **accepted his love.”

You do not see the parts that I have emboldened as a contradiction? If not then your use of the word “willingly” was inappropriate.

P.S. I do not state that I cooperated in saving myself or that I merited the gift of salvation and ensuant grace that revealed the truth of Jesus as Lord and Saviour, however, after receiving the Holy Spirit am I not to cooperate with it to become and follow Jesus in all his ways. Can the Holy Spirit force me to be Christ-like?
I do not see a contradiction in my position. I agree with most of your P.S. A person that is Born Again will willingly follow Christ. But that is proof of the work of the Holy Spirit in your life. The more spiritually mature you become the more Christ-like you become The Holy Spirit does not force you to be Christ-like, He just pushes you along towards that goal.
 
I do not see a contradiction in my position. I agree with most of your P.S. A person that is Born Again will willingly follow Christ. But that is proof of the work of the Holy Spirit in your life. The more spiritually mature you become the more Christ-like you become The Holy Spirit does not force you to be Christ-like, He just pushes you along towards that goal.
And you must cooperate with that grace in order to accept it.
As I said before, God is not a cosmic spiritual rapist who forces his love on you. At some point, you had to agree to accept this gift.

Do you believe that you have a free will or do you reject that doctrine.
 
I dithered around the subject of whether to be a Christian for years, and the evidence that Christianity is true kept piling up. Finally in response to a strange experience (which I’ve described on CAF), I went for a walk with a Baptist, a family member, whom I knew to have suffered for his faith from our own family, which encouraged my belief that he had reasons for that faith. He said many things, including, “When you die, that day will be just as real as this day,” and, “You can’t control the supernatural things, because they’re more powerful than you are, and the evil ones can hurt you, but calling on God, you can have His protection (and) love; God is love, and you need to know God; He’s the only One who can reconcile the different parts of you,” and, “When you die, you’re committed. You might as well commit while you have a chance to think about it.” Out of all these, and more, statements that went right to the heart of what I’d been thinking and hadn’t said, he said, “God gave me my (impaired faculty of) memory back.” I liked the matter-of-fact way he said it. He wasn’t the kind of person to say things he wasn’t factually sure of in such a tone. If he said a thing that simply and plainly it meant he had strong, reasoned, empirical, good reason to think of it as the truth. Maybe it was.
Still, I put off really deciding, for a few days while I tried to find some way to be both a Christian and something else. But after more discussion and prayer with that man I decided that my years of experiment, reading, reasoning out what I knew to be true, looking for a way out of it… all led to one conclusion: The Christian Bible is the truth, and there is one God, whose only Son, also God, is Jesus of Nazareth, circa 10’s BC-30’s AD give-or-take, the crucified Messiah predicted in the Old Testament, whose followers preached throughout the Roman Empire in the First Century, and they preached accurately and honestly.
It took about two years to decide I needed a church. i got into Evangelical Friends after trying a few, because they seemed to know what they weret alking about and were politically acceptable to my old friends compared totthe other churches I has looked into, but I soon found that the reason they were politically acceptable was that my friends didn’t knwo what Evangelical Friends are. They had them mixed up with Unprogrammed Friends, though it’s Evangelicals who inherited the church system and terminology and doctrines of George Fox, or most of them. Also a majority of Friends according to the latest information I could find were Evangelical. I set out expalining the difference and discovered that my old friends were not likely to accept my actually being a Christian. They shouted and hissed and stormed around. My boyfriend patted me on the hand and smirked at me. An old, old friend said, “How can you?” A line was drawn, but not by myself.
All this while scary, intense things were going on in my surroundings for a few years. I needed my old friends, family and neighbors to survive the times, probably literally. Community was survival, and everyone knew it. But to most of them, my existence among them was OK and I was trustworthy to pretty much the extent that I was “just doing this Christian thing to irritate my boyfriend” and would soon outgrow it. Not me.😃 So the line widened to a ditch, a gorge, a sea. Much later one approached me on the street with big eyes and someone there for backup (I guess), hands folded on abdomen, and asked whether I were “just looking for community and acceptance”. I had walked, at a difficult time, away from intense community and long-time acceptance in my home town, to embrace the truth. I was a little bit sarcastic to her, I have to say.
Y2K, environmental fears, 9-11, and a lot of frightening things in my personal life, as well as the lack of information on spiritual matters in my church, led me to read a lot of Christian books with no concept of the number of different worldviews they represented or the starting point to find out how credible the authors were. Unemployment led me to take work and other situations with people who had a lot of confusing answers. A friend asked me, begged, eventually, for the reason I had such peace. I was scared to say, “Jesus died for me,” because I was tired and intimidated by the anti-Christianity I live in the middle of. Rather than say it anyway and deal with the consequences, I brushed him off. I saw him later and dodged him, figuring I would find out what to say and rehearse adn tell him next time. He was dead by the time I heard about him again.:(😊 I decided my fearfulness and cowardice had to go.
I finally got baptized. Suddenly I was bolder and more confident in my faith. The fact that my church didn’t see a need for water baptism started bothering me. I became one of the stream of congregants leaving that church. I was on the street awhile, where I learned to go ahead and say what I thought and take the lumps.
Some Pentecostals picked me up and helped me get on my feet, and soon I was in their church. I did public outreach. It was nerve-wracking, and later I realized it was done a little dishonestly the way we went about it, but it washed off some more of my shyness, leaving me free to develop a more devout life with no worry about looking different or seeming strange.
 
**And you must **cooperate with that grace in order to accept it.
As I said before, God is not a cosmic spiritual rapist who forces his love on you. At some point, you had to agree to accept this gift.

Do you believe that you have a free will or do you reject that doctrine.
I do not think that free will is a biblical doctrine, I believe that you have free will to a point.
However your free will does not supersede the will of God. If it did God would not be a sovereign God.
2 timothy 1 ;9 says God saved for his purpose and grace give us before the world began. Our salvation was determined in eternity pass.
 
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