What form of EF Mass did I attend?

[jonbr]

I recently went to an EF mass in a neighbouring parish, and I know it wasn’t a High Mass because there was no incense, the priest did not chant, however there was a schola (choir?), and two altar servers, quite possibly what may have been a deacon, and the congregation knelt for a majority of the Mass and there was very little if any participation on our part. I do apologise if this has been asked before, but I searched and didn’t find anything similar to this and I didn’t want to hijack someone else’s thread.

 

[tbtcom1213]

I recently went to an EF mass in a neighbouring parish, and I know it wasn’t a High Mass because there was no incense, the priest did not chant, however there was a schola (choir?), and two altar servers, quite possibly what may have been a deacon, and the congregation knelt for a majority of the Mass and there was very little if any participation on our part. I do apologise if this has been asked before, but I searched and didn’t find anything similar to this and I didn’t want to hijack someone else’s thread.

It might have been a Low Mass; At a low Mass the priest celebrant is attended by one or two altar servers two in your case who take the place of deacon and subdeacon but don’t perform their functions

music can be sung at a low Mass but at very restrictive times such as the offertory, the distribution of Holy Communion inclusive and the postlude

perhaps a deacon assisted at Holy Communion?

 

[jonbr]

That sounds about right, but then again I was in a state of awe/confusion the whole time, but I will say that after going to OF Mass all my life, then going to the EF Mass I must say that the EF Mass reaffirms my faith as a Roman Catholic and it is in my opinion the way Mass should be celebrated.

 

[halleone]

That sounds about right, but then again I was in a state of awe/confusion the whole time, but I will say that after going to OF Mass all my life, then going to the EF Mass I must say that the EF Mass reaffirms my faith as a Roman Catholic and it is in my opinion the way Mass should be celebrated.

The Mass you describe is the one I grew up attending; personally, I find the OF far too “Protestant” for me, and I would love to be able to attend the EF again. That could happen if I were willing to drive 4 hours one-way, but I am in my 60’s, and not in the best of health, and prefer not to. I guess my biggest complaint about the OF is the hand-holding during the Our Father, and the passing of the peace; it is almost mandatory in our parish, people get too offended if you don’t play along with them. Some of them get to scattering half-way across the church to shake hands with friends, and it is very distracting to me. Sorry for my rant. I always liked the old Latin form, as you can tell.

 

[Rich_C]

It sounds like a low Mass with sung propers, just like my nuptial Mass will be.

Here’s an easy way to tell: how many altar candles are lit? Two candles = low Mass; six candles = high Mass.

 

[MarkThompson]

It sounds like a low Mass with sung propers, just like my nuptial Mass will be.

That would be a missa cantata (at which, incidentally, incense is optional). But since in Jonbr’s case the priest did not chant, it could not have been that. At a straight “low Mass,” it is forbidden to sing the propers. The choir can sing anything else during that part of the liturgy, including vernacular paraphrases of the propers or vernacular congregational hymns, but not the propers themselves.

Here’s an easy way to tell: how many altar candles are lit? Two candles = low Mass; six candles = high Mass.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that simply. At a missa cantata (which is strictly speaking a low Mass, as there is no role for a deacon or subdeacon), four or six candles may be used. And more than two candles may be used even at true low (i.e., said) Masses, when these are celebrated instead of a high Mass on more solemn occasions.

 

[Rich_C]

That would be a missa cantata (at which, incidentally, incense is optional). But since in Jonbr’s case the priest did not chant, it could not have been that. At a straight “low Mass,” it is forbidden to sing the propers. The choir can sing anything else during that part of the liturgy, including vernacular paraphrases of the propers or vernacular congregational hymns, but not the propers themselves.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that simply. At a missa cantata (which is strictly speaking a low Mass, as there is no role for a deacon or subdeacon), four or six candles may be used. And more than two candles may be used even at true low (i.e., said) Masses, when these are celebrated instead of a high Mass on more solemn occasions.

You lost me. Could you try presenting this more succintly?

 

[malphono]

You lost me. Could you try presenting this more succintly?

I’m sure Mark will have more to say, but I’ll submit this: a “Low Mass” is a ***missa lecta ***(literally “read Mass”), and by its nature, there is nothing belonging to the Mass itself that is sung. It is all spoken (“read”) whether aloud or not. The Propers and the Ordinary are parts of the Mass (notice that the texts are in the Missal), so they are not to be sung. OTOH, though, hymns sung for the processional, Offertory, Communion, recessional, etc, are not parts of the Mass per-se (they’re not in the Missal) and can be sung by the choir/congregation at the appropriate times.

 

[MarkThompson]

You lost me. Could you try presenting this more succintly?

Maybe if I present it less succinctly that will help.

As Fortescue and most other commentators would say, the true difference between a “high Mass” and a “low Mass” is that a high Mass is celebrated with deacon and subdeacon, while a low Mass is only celebrated by the priest (and altar servers, as appropriate). The high Mass (which the Latin books call missa solemnis, and those who don’t know better would call “Solemn High Mass”) is always chanted by the sacred ministers and sung by the choir. “Low Mass,” on the other hand, can be further divided into the missa lecta (“said Mass,” or spoken Mass) and missa cantata (“sung Mass”).

Originally the missa lecta was the only form of low Mass, so that the only two possibilities for Mass were the big-production missa solemnis, with its requirement of a deacon and subdeacon and choir, or the silent missa lecta, suitable for a side altar on a Tuesday but hardly impressive. As time went by, in many places, like parishes, they wanted things like singing and incense, but simply did not have a deacon and subdeacon available. So gradually in the eighteenth century the missa cantata was created as an elevated form of the low Mass, or really a hybrid Mass. The Holy See still tried to keep a few distinctions between the missa cantata and missa solemnis; for instance, the use of incense was forbidden at the missa cantata – a prohibition that was widely ignored, until finally in the early 20th century the Holy See capitulated, allowing it as an option. Sadly, the use of incense at a missa cantata will forever be stigmatized as the fruit of disobedience.

Anyway – setting aside, as we have been, all pontifical forms of the Mass – what you have now are three forms, which can be celebrated as differently as night and day, and have plenty of options to go along with them. There is the true high Mass – the missa solemnis – at which the priest’s parts must be chanted and the propers and ordinary sung. Six candles are used. There is the false high Mass – the missa cantata, sometimes erroneously advertised as “high Mass” on parish or chapel websites – at which, again, the priest’s parts must be chanted and the propers and ordinary sung. Four or six candles are used. Then there is the true low Mass – the missa lecta – at which the priest’s parts must not be chanted and the propers and ordinary must not be sung. Two candles are used, except on occasions of greater solemnity, when more can be used. At the missa lecta, however, as I intimated in my previous post, other songs or hymns, including vernacular paraphrases of the propers (but, again, not the propers themselves) may be sung.

Is that clearer?

 

[Rich_C]

I did some background reading and apparently in 1960 Pope John XXIII’s new Code for Mass overruled Fortescue in classifying a missa cantata as a kind of high Mass, not a kind of low Mass. Thanks for all the information.

 

[Chatter163]

I did some background reading and apparently in 1960 Pope John XXIII’s new Code for Mass overruled Fortescue in classifying a missa cantata as a kind of high Mass, not a kind of low Mass. Thanks for all the information.

Correct. At that time High Masses were distinguished in two classes: Solemn and High. The use of incense, while not absolutely required at a Sung Mass, was viewed as normative for both types of High Mass, no indult being needed at a Sung Mass.

 

[Rich_C]

Is there any consistently on the 4 candle thing? I saw it at a missa cantata at a parish I was visiting, but my parish always uses 2 or 6 to my knowledge.

 

[Chatter163]

Is there any consistently on the 4 candle thing? I saw it at a missa cantata at a parish I was visiting, but my parish always uses 2 or 6 to my knowledge.

Two for Low Mass, six for High. Extra candle for a bishop. A bishop may also use four candles at Low Mass.

 

[jonbr]

i just want to thank everyone for the information, i appreciate you all and God Bless.

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

I am going to argue in favour of the use of “Solemn High Mass” to describe a missa solemnis.

If we can properly refer to a missa solemnis as a “High Mass”, then it follows that “high” must be one of the adjectives which can describe this Mass. Now, from missa solemnis, we translate “Solemn Mass” as the name of this Mass in Latin. So we know that the missa solemnis is both:

1. solemn
   and
2. high.

Therefore, it is not wrong to refer to it as at least “solemn high Mass”, without the capitalisation on “solemn” and “high”, even if that is not, technically speaking, its actual designation in any official liturgical texts (I don’t know whether or not “Solemn High Mass” is an official name).

Now, there is no necessary change in meaning between “solemn high Mass” and “Solemn High Mass”. The capital letters do not necessarily mean that “Solemn High Mass” is its official name even though they may imply that. So, since “solemn high Mass” is correct, and it can be equal to “Solemn High Mass”, then “Solemn High Mass” can be correct, or is not necessarily wrong.

I believe that this naming system is not only correct but helpful, because it is easier to understand a system of “low → high → higher” than “low → sung → high” when a “High Mass” (a missa solemnis) is also sung and a Sung Mass is also high.

(end bad St. Thomas impression)

 

[MarkThompson]

I am going to argue in favour of the use of “Solemn High Mass” to describe a missa solemnis.

If we can properly refer to a missa solemnis as a “High Mass”, then it follows that “high” must be one of the adjectives which can describe this Mass. Now, from missa solemnis, we translate “Solemn Mass” as the name of this Mass in Latin. So we know that the missa solemnis is both:

1. solemn
   and
2. high.

Therefore, it is not wrong to refer to it as at least “solemn high Mass”, without the capitalisation on “solemn” and “high”, even if that is not, technically speaking, its actual designation in any official liturgical texts (I don’t know whether or not “Solemn High Mass” is an official name).

Now, there is no necessary change in meaning between “solemn high Mass” and “Solemn High Mass”. The capital letters do not necessarily mean that “Solemn High Mass” is its official name even though they may imply that. So, since “solemn high Mass” is correct, and it can be equal to “Solemn High Mass”, then “Solemn High Mass” can be correct, or is not necessarily wrong.

I believe that this naming system is not only correct but helpful, because it is easier to understand a system of “low → high → higher” than “low → sung → high” when a “High Mass” (a missa solemnis) is also sung and a Sung Mass is also high.

(end bad St. Thomas impression)

In Latin, however, there is no such thing as “missa alta” or . . . hmm, Latin doesn’t even have a very good word for “low” . . . “missa humilis,” perhaps. That phraseology is just a novelty that has been introduced in the vulgar English tongue. Latin knows only the said Mass, the sung Mass, and the solemn Mass, the latter two of which were classified together in 1960 as Masses in cantu (“in song,” I suppose, but nobody uses this term).

 

[andrewstx]

I think I dissagee with the individual who said the OF reminds him of Protestant worship, I find the opposite to be true.

A low EF Mass without congregational prarticipation reminds me very much of the fundamental Protestant church I was raised in. No one says a word other than the preacher, it’s a one man show. The same as EF Mass, the priest has the whole Mass with the congregation remaining silent.

I always thought the congregations responces and singing the Gloria, Sanctus and Our Father is a great point in our favour.

I converted during the 70s, a low point in some ways, but it was before Latin Masses started coming back. I like a Mass I can understand and participate in. And it certianly made conversion much easier.

 

[moon1234]

Maybe if I present it less succinctly that will help.

As Fortescue and most other commentators would say, the true difference between a “high Mass” and a “low Mass” is that a high Mass is celebrated with deacon and subdeacon, while a low Mass is only celebrated by the priest (and altar servers, as appropriate). The high Mass (which the Latin books call missa solemnis, and those who don’t know better would call “Solemn High Mass”) is always chanted by the sacred ministers and sung by the choir. “Low Mass,” on the other hand, can be further divided into the missa lecta (“said Mass,” or spoken Mass) and missa cantata (“sung Mass”).

Originally the missa lecta was the only form of low Mass, so that the only two possibilities for Mass were the big-production missa solemnis, with its requirement of a deacon and subdeacon and choir, or the silent missa lecta, suitable for a side altar on a Tuesday but hardly impressive. As time went by, in many places, like parishes, they wanted things like singing and incense, but simply did not have a deacon and subdeacon available. So gradually in the eighteenth century the missa cantata was created as an elevated form of the low Mass, or really a hybrid Mass. The Holy See still tried to keep a few distinctions between the missa cantata and missa solemnis; for instance, the use of incense was forbidden at the missa cantata – a prohibition that was widely ignored, until finally in the early 20th century the Holy See capitulated, allowing it as an option. Sadly, the use of incense at a missa cantata will forever be stigmatized as the fruit of disobedience.

Anyway – setting aside, as we have been, all pontifical forms of the Mass – what you have now are three forms, which can be celebrated as differently as night and day, and have plenty of options to go along with them. There is the true high Mass – the missa solemnis – at which the priest’s parts must be chanted and the propers and ordinary sung. Six candles are used. There is the false high Mass – the missa cantata, sometimes erroneously advertised as “high Mass” on parish or chapel websites – at which, again, the priest’s parts must be chanted and the propers and ordinary sung. Four or six candles are used. Then there is the true low Mass – the missa lecta – at which the priest’s parts must not be chanted and the propers and ordinary must not be sung. Two candles are used, except on occasions of greater solemnity, when more can be used. At the missa lecta, however, as I intimated in my previous post, other songs or hymns, including vernacular paraphrases of the propers (but, again, not the propers themselves) may be sung.

Is that clearer?

Actually I would arge there are FOUR forms. Low Mass, HI Mass (Missa Cantata), Solemn High Mass (Missa Solemnis) and Pontifical High Mass (Missa Pontificale)

The last one is reserved for when a Bishop is the celebrant. A Bishop, however, can say any of the other forms. It is expected of a Bishop to say the Pontifical High Mass, when possible. In our diocese, Bishop Morlino will reoutinely say a low Mass with music. This is not a High Mass, though. Once or twice a year he will have a pontifical High Mass.

A low Mass with music has the following:

• Oridinary of the Mass without Gloria or Credo (Kyrie, Sanctus, Angus Dei)
• Procession
• Offertory
• Communion
• Recessional

The Processional and Recessional can be in English or Latin as they are technically outside of the Mass.

Low Mass with music also will NOT have ANYTHING sung by the Priest and the propers are read by the Priest. It is a good compromise for daily Mass. It would be better to have a High Mass on Sunday (Missa Cantata) if possible. If Father is sick or the logistics don’t work then a low Mass with Music is the best compromise.

 

[benjohnson]

I find the OF far too “Protestant” for me.

Me too! And I’m a protestant.

 

[MarkThompson]

Actually I would arge there are FOUR forms. Low Mass, HI Mass (Missa Cantata), Solemn High Mass (Missa Solemnis) and Pontifical High Mass (Missa Pontificale).

Yes, that’s why I said “setting aside, as we have been, all pontifical forms of the Mass.” I suppose one would also have to make note of the various forms of papal Masses too, if one really wanted to go into all of that just to answer the question that was being asked.