What gives with American Catholics?

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Thank you for your post, JR. As others have mentioned, you are a continuous source of insight and wisdom in this forum. I plan to take your post personally and to examine my own ways of responding to others in my posts. I regret any anger or intolerance I have shown to others in my posts and hope to do better, not only on this forum, but in my daily life as well. I hope that you and my fellow Catholics will keep me in prayer, just as I will keep you and others in my prayer. Again, thank you for your post.
 
Bro. JR,

you are without a doubt my favorite person in the entire CAF. but there’s one point on your original post that i disagree with. i don’t think this attitude is limited to American Catholics. many Catholics around the world are this way, which actually makes it even sadder. and i do agree with CD Nowak about the internet empowering people just because they can hide behind a veil of anonymity. its easy to call out someone when they don’t know where you are.
 
Dear Brother JR,

I am not a Franciscan but I was converted by Francis, to visit the sick. It is a long story with so many things happened that defied probability. What really got me was his admonitions: sacred-texts.com/chr/wosf/wosf03.htm

I love the story of Saint Francis and it goes to show that one man serving Our Lord and Savior Jesus, the “Christ”, as a servant can change the world.

I was tracked down by the “Hound of Heaven” another story too long to share.

I have seen His wonderful kindness and love for people in the Hospital.

Thank you for serving Our Lord —
 
Thank you Brother JR for your beautiful testamont to your faith and the faith of St. Francis.Your message is like a cool drink of water among all the heated debate that goes on here. I think we all need to be reminded from time to time about how we’re really supposed to live our lives and how to treat other people. There are so many distractions and diversions in the world, especially today with all the technology that’s available that it’s easy to become removed from what’s real and what’s important…
Your point about the practice of silence is a key to inner peace, along with prayer. Can you recommend a book about St.Francis? One that wouldn’t be too complicated or deep for us lay people:)?
 
Thank you Brother JR for your beautiful testamont to your faith and the faith of St. Francis.Your message is like a cool drink of water among all the heated debate that goes on here. I think we all need to be reminded from time to time about how we’re really supposed to live our lives and how to treat other people. There are so many distractions and diversions in the world, especially today with all the technology that’s available that it’s easy to become removed from what’s real and what’s important…
Your point about the practice of silence is a key to inner peace, along with prayer. Can you recommend a book about St.Francis? One that wouldn’t be too complicated or deep for us lay people:)?
The key to the spiritual life has always been obedience. St. Paul spells it out quite clearly. Christ became obedience unto death. What our Holy Father Francis realized is that true obedience is to do as Christ did.

But Francis also knows that he’s not Christ. He’s a sinner. Therefore, he does not start out to tell others how unfaithful they are, how horrible their liturgies are, or how lacking they are in catechesis. Jesus could take this aproach, because he was sinless. But Francis realizes that for a human being to take this approach is to take the same approach as the pharisees who pointed the finger at everyone except themselves.

Francis approaches conversion from the communal point of departure. He speaks about himself and then invites others to journey with him. In other words, he does not leave himself out. When he speaks about erros, he acknoledges that WE are in error. WE are sinful. WE are vain and banal. But as he does so, he uses humor. One thing that many lay people do not know about Francis of Assisi is that he never preached with a sour face, even when talking about hell. He would laugh about it. There was great joy in his preaching and teaching.

Francis did not see sin and hell as something that we should panic about. He laughed in the face of Satan and hell, because he was totally convinced about the power of God and the gifts of grace that we receive through the Church and the sacraments. Our early brothers wrote of how he would make fun of Satan. In his mind, Satan was a dork. He never underestimated the power of evil and the power of sin. But he did not overestimate it either. Evil and sin have no power against grace. As long as he was in a state of grace, he could laugh in the face of evil and sin. Francis was as delighted as a child who has discoverd a new weapon that made him invinsible. His new weapon was the Gospel.

There was another quality that has endeared him to millions of people for 800 years. He was a real brother to everyone. Brother was not just a title to him. Brother was his identity. Everyone was his brother and he loved his brothers and sisters even more than he loved his parents and his biological family. There is a statement that he made once about this. “If a mother loves her children according to the flesh, how much more should the friars love their brothers according to the Spirit.”

If we stop to think about this, the idea of loving those around us more than we love our children is a powerful expectation. But that’s the kind of love that Francis practiced and the kind of love that he taught others to practice. This does not exclude one’s family. On the contrary, it includes one’s family along with everyone else. What Francis’ spirituality of brotherhood does is to strip away the boundaries between people. It’s like St. Paul said. "There are no more Greeks or Jews."k

When people saw and heard him, they were mesmorized by him, because he spoke about going to heaven, how to get there and how he was struggling to get there. Then he proceeded to invite everyone else to join him on the journey, because together we are stronger.

I believe that this is the part where we fail. We do not love others as more or even as much as we love our biological relatiions. We must pray for that gift of love. And we do not admit that we are struggling and that we could use some companionship on the journey. When we come onto these threads we talk about where everyone is struggling or failing. But we never mention where we’re struggling or failing. Such a messages comes off very condescending, as if the speaker were placing his virtue above those of his readers. Men like Francis never did that. No matter how sinful his audience, Francis also remembered and remainded them how much God loved them and what they meant in God’s heart and mind.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I was in Assisi and saw the story of Saint Francis. I looked up at the Frescas (sp?) in the basilica (sp?). There the story was told since people could not read or write in the old days. Essentially, Francis was getting allot of followers by his ministering to the lepers and the sick. At first the Pope would not meet with him but the Pope had a dream where the little Saint was holding up the whole church ! Then the most remarkable thing happened — the Pope saw Francis got down on his knees and kissed the saints feet — essentially knowing that the Lord was with Francis. That is how the Franciscans became part of the Catholic church as an order as the Pope knew that the Lord was with Francis — JR correct me if I am wrong ! This whole episode just goes to show that one man being a servant to our Lord can make a huge difference — Francis never was a priest and only reluctantly accepted the position of a dean — since all he wanted to be was a servant — which is my aspiration ----

stuart
 
I was in Assisi and saw the story of Saint Francis. I looked up at the Frescas (sp?) in the basilica (sp?). There the story was told since people could not read or write in the old days. Essentially, Francis was getting allot of followers by his ministering to the lepers and the sick. At first the Pope would not meet with him but the Pope had a dream where the little Saint was holding up the whole church ! Then the most remarkable thing happened — the Pope saw Francis got down on his knees and kissed the saints feet — essentially knowing that the Lord was with Francis. That is how the Franciscans became part of the Catholic church as an order as the Pope knew that the Lord was with Francis — JR correct me if I am wrong ! This whole episode just goes to show that one man being a servant to our Lord can make a huge difference — Francis never was a priest and only reluctantly accepted the position of a dean — since all he wanted to be was a servant — which is my aspiration ----

stuart
I’m not sure what there is to correct. I would only clarify that Francis was never a priest, because it has always been the position of the Franciscans and Benedictines that the priesthood is accidental not essential to the religious life. In other words, you do not need to be a priest to be a religious, nor do you need priests in religious orders. You can always go down to the local parish for mass and other sacraments.

Francis was ordained a deacon, in 1223, 14 years after the founding of the order. The reason for the ordination was to protect the order from the label, heretics. There were many lay penitential movements at the time that had turn heretical. It was feared that the Franciscan movement would be confused with these, since it is also a penitential movement. But if the founder and superior general were a deacon, then they would not be suspected of heresy.

We know that did not work, because many heretics were priets (ie. Martin Luther). Francis’ successor was a priest named Brother Elias. Elias was excommunicated for his insolence toward Francis. That blew the whole theory of protecting the order from heresy through ordination. Elias was condemned as a heretic for disagreeing with Francis on how to govern the order. He was excommunicated and had to recant in order to be readmitted to the Church and to the order. Eventually he became the superior general again. This time he was submissive to what Francis had taught and written. He died a very holy man.

If you feel called to this life, you may want to look at our community. We’re certainly looking for good men who want to live the Gospel in the manner of St. Francis and spend the rest of their lives preaching the Gospel of Life. Our lives are the same as that of any Franciscan, but our ministry and charism is the Gospel of Life.

We protect the unborn. We provide for the needs of parents who choose to keep their babies. We serve those who have had abortions and those who have performed abortions and need healing and reconciliation.

Our brothers also train deacons, priests and bishops on the meaning and content of Evangelium Vitae. Every brother becomes an expert on that document and the other documents that go with it.

Our brothers serve families who are dealing with end of life choices for their loved ones or very sick family membes. We support families who have to deal with the capital punishment.

But our greatest ministry is to bring Life to other Catholics. Our mission and ministry is to convert Catholics to the Life of Christ. We have no priests, because we do not need priests for this ministry or this way of life. When we need a priest for sacraments we use one of the local priests, either diocesan or regular priest.

We do not live in large monasteries, but in very small community houses like the first brothers. Obedience is primary to us, as it was to St. Francis. Second to obedience is prayer and then brotherhood. We protect, care for and serve each other as a mother does for her children. The love that we share with each other becomes life for others, just as the love between Christ and the apostles became life for the whole Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thank You JR for all,

I have been greatly inspired by the life of Francis. Especially a quote attributed to him, “Lord that I may preach the Gospel and only when necessary with words”. My ministry is to visit the sick and dying as the Lord has shown me to do this. I see many types of Catholics, those who are by name only and those with great faith.

My goal is to continue in this ministry and to become a faithful servant. In general, I introduce myself to the sick and dying and say that I am there to visit and pray with them. We usually pray an act of contrition an Our Father and then the blessing of Saint Francis:

May the Lord Bless and keep you
The Lord turn His face to you and have mercy
The Lord turn his countenance to you and give you peace
The Lord bless you

I have seen “His Majesty work” many times and saw a woman won back to Christianity through the terminal illness of another. Patients have told me stories that are truly inspiring.

I am married and have a full time job. Otherwise I would consider becoming a brother —

all the best

Stuart
 
As I reflect on our spiritual needs today, the one thing that comes to mind is the need to be truly critical thinkers instead of critics. It is easy to confuse the two. However, a saint is a person who can be a critical thinker without stooping down to criticism. He or she is never affected by criticism, because he/she knows that criticism comes from an angry heart. Nor does a saint stoop down to criticizing others, because he/she knows that such an action is a covert way of judging. It is spiritual arrogance. The man or woman who is his brother’s critic is really making a statement about himself or herself. What’s he saying? He saying, “I’m better than you. I know better than you. I’m more virtuous than you.” While those are not the words that come out of the mouth of the critic, that certainly is the message.

On the other hand, a critical thinker is one who can separate the issue from the person. The critical thinker can tell the difference between the sin and the sinner. The critical thinker has the ability to identify problems and find solutions without targeting people and condemning them as a solution to the problem. I am always reminded of the martyrs. Those who put the martyrs to death were not very good critical thinkers. They didn’t understand that by putting these people to death they were not ridding themselves of their problems. In fact, when you create a martyr you fuel the cause. It is no surprise that many faiths, not just our own, are built upon the blood of the martyrs.

When you make a martyr out of the sinner, you fuel the sin. What society sees is our behavior, not the sin that we are attempting to fight. The real problem, which is the sin, becomes obscured and lost in the forest. We end up with a reaction to our behavior, rather than an end to an evil. Wisdom is an important part of holiness. Without wisdom, it is very difficult to be holy. The wise man or woman does not create a scenario where the attention shifts from the sin to the sinner to the point where the sinner becomes a victim. Why? Because when we make the sinner a victim, we obscure the evil that we’re trying to correct.

For example, today we have serious moral issues on our hands: abortion, homosexual unions, child-sexual abuse and more. Let us look at what has happened to those who have gone out of their way condemning gay people, abortionists, and child-abusers. There has been a turn in the events. Suddenly, the person who attacks the gay person, is labeled a homophobe, because that’s what he sounds like. He’s not talking about the virtue of purity and the inherent dignity of human sexuality; he’s talking about gay people, as if straight people never violate the sixth commandment

Those who call abortionists murderers draw very negative attention to themselves. They are not talking about the act of murdering. If truth be told, we really don’t know what the abortionist understands or does not understand about the dignity of life. We certainly do not know what the 16-year old girl who is terrified by her unexpected pregnancy really understands about the moral gravity of her choice. To go out on a campaign that labels and name-tags such people is not very useful and does not point out the real issue, the sanctity of human life, the rights of the unborn, the obligation of all people to protect life and the obligation of society to ensure that we use our human resources for the good of life, not its destruction. The word “murderer” does not proclaim any of these great truths. It simply becomes a pawn in a political conflict, which is not what the issue is about. The issue is about God’s moral law, not politics. The issue is about the attack on life, not about the attacker. The attacker needs to hear the Truth, not the scorn. The attacker needs to know about murder, not be called a murderer.

Those who make horrible statements about the priests who sexually abused children are forgetting that these men are also sons of God. They have committed a horrible crime against an innocent human being. They have violated trust and violated a vow. But the message that comes across is not this. What comes across is that we Christians want to destroy, crush, and throw the sinner into a dumpster. Nothing can be further from the truth. The truth is that we want this sin to be gone from our world. We want children to be safe. We want men and women to be responsible. We want to see sinners convert from their sins. We want to see those who are hurt by sin be healed. We want to find ways of chipping away at this problem until it disappears. We want to strike a balance between condemning the sin and forgiving the sinner. Most of all, we want to do God’s will.

These are just a few examples from our daily lives where we must be critical thinkers. We must ask ourselves whether we’re attacking the sin or calling attention to it by making a martyr out of the sinner. We must also ask ourselves whether we’re condemning the sin or placing ourselves on a pedestal where we are the judge, jury and prosecutor of those who sin. We must ask ourselves whether we are just condemning sin or are we also teaching the opposite virtues. If we only condemn sin, but never teach the opposite virtue, then our evangelization is out of balance. The saint has the wisdom to condemn the sin, teach the opposing virtue, and recognize that the sinner needs to be converted, not condemned. The Evangelist never forgets that God loves the sinner. The time will come when God will judge and sentence humanity. Our mission is to convert humanity.

I always have to ask myself whether I’m really against the sin or just angry at the sinner. If I’m just angry at the sinner, I’m not in a good spiritual place. There has to be balance and wisdom in our dealing with sins and sinners.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Those who make horrible statements about the priests who sexually abused children are forgetting that these men are also sons of God. They have committed a horrible crime against an innocent human being. They have violated trust and violated a vow. But the message that comes across is not this. What comes across is that we Christians want to destroy, crush, and throw the sinner into a dumpster. Nothing can be further from the truth. The truth is that we want this sin to be gone from our world. We want children to be safe. We want men and women to be responsible. We want to see sinners convert from their sins. We want to see those who are hurt by sin be healed. We want to find ways of chipping away at this problem until it disappears. We want to strike a balance between condemning the sin and forgiving the sinner. Most of all, we want to do God’s will.

These are just a few examples from our daily lives where we must be critical thinkers. We must ask ourselves whether we’re attacking the sin or calling attention to it by making a martyr out of the sinner. We must also ask ourselves whether we’re condemning the sin or placing ourselves on a pedestal where we are the judge, jury and prosecutor of those who sin. We must ask ourselves whether we are just condemning sin or are we also teaching the opposite virtues. If we only condemn sin, but never teach the opposite virtue, then our evangelization is out of balance. The saint has the wisdom to condemn the sin, teach the opposing virtue, and recognize that the sinner needs to be converted, not condemned. The Evangelist never forgets that God loves the sinner. The time will come when God will judge and sentence humanity. Our mission is to convert humanity.

I always have to ask myself whether I’m really against the sin or just angry at the sinner. If I’m just angry at the sinner, I’m not in a good spiritual place. There has to be balance and wisdom in our dealing with sins and sinners.
Wow. Yes. Thank you.

Something the news never mentions - those guilty of child abuse can also be converted, repent, and change their life. If they do, are we prepared to accept their conversion and be merciful to them? And until then, are we more eager for that conversion to happen than we are for their destruction?
 
Brother, you are right. I notice this sort of angry prejudice and hatred all the time on these boards, and it really bothers me. I thought it didn’t exist within me until I read your post, but now I realize it does. I had never considered the pedophile priests as children of God. I will remember this.
 
I was just reading another thread on the spirituality forum about gay and lesbian Christians. I was saddened at the fact that the person used the term “supposedly Christian gay and lesbians.”

I’m sure that the person did not mean any harm. It’s conditioning at its best. But it shows the lack of critical thinking. First, there is an assumption that all gay and lesbian people are leading unchaste lives. Second, there is a implicit assumption that heterosexuals are on some other spiritual plane of existence and that most lead chaste lives. Guess again!

If truth be told, sin is not about sexual attractions, but about sexual actions. If a person is straight or gay, but lives a chaste life, then there is no supposing. He is living a life of Christian virtue . . . at least in this area.

On the other hand, if a person is sexually active outside of marriage, gay or straight, he is not leading a chaste life. And yet, I would never say that he or she is a supposed Christian. Why not? Because I’m not God. I don’t know who understands the gravity of their actions and who does not. Only God knows that. I can only say that the action is gravely wrong. That’s why the Church uses words like “objectively sinful” or “objectively grave” and “objectively disordered.”

Objectively is a word that the Church deliberately uses to avoid imposing culpability on an individual. Despite her wisdom, power and authority, the Church does not know who is guilty of sin and who is not. The Church only knows who has DONE something that is sinful. Doing and being guilty are not the same thing.

In moral law we never say that someone is guilty. We do not know. We say that a person who does an immoral act is probably guilty. But we leave enough room for the benefit of the doubt. That’s why we say “objectively guilty”. Subjectively, I don’t know if someone else is guilty.

Heck, there are times when I do something and I don’t know if I sinned or not. The rule of the Church is that if you have a doubt, you give yourself the benefit. There has to be a degree of certainty and it has to be on the part of the individual doing the action, not the rest of the world who is watching. If it were that easy, then the Church could sit and say that this person is in heaven and that person is in hell.

Notice that popes have apostolic authority to infallibly decree that a person is a saint. But that same authority does not exist the other way around. No pope can infallibly decree that someone is in hell.

This takes us back to the balance. Holiness is the sum of wisdom and contrition. In other words, true holiness is the sum total of virtue and penance. The only holy person who did not need penance was Mary. Yet, she did penance.

OK OK, neither did Jesus or John the Baptist. Jeesh, some people are so picky. :rotfl:

True Christian spirituality never assumes to know the state of another person’s soul The fact is that human life is so complex, that we can be very good in some areas and very bad in others. To say that someone is supposedly Christian is to assume to know all the areas of a person’s life or worse, to say that only one area of a person’s life counts and if you fail in that area, you’re toast. If only life were that simple.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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