What happened to all the people before Jesus came?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dchezik
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
dchezik said:
One more question:
What about intelligent life we are likely to encounter on other planets? Paul Davies discusses this in his book Are We Alone?. Apparently this has concerned several theologians who wonder if a Jesus analogue would have to emerge on those distant planets and undergo the equivalent of crucifixion for these beings to escape God’s unrelenting justice.

Some say it is too horrible to contemplate – that the Son of God would have to be reincarnated in different life forms and suffer innumerable deaths to provide salvation for those sinners as well. Others say that radio transmission to them about Jesus’ life on earth would serve as a kind of techno-evangelism. The problem is they’d have to wait for millions of years for the message to travel those light years across space!

What do you guys think? Will there be “redeemed” extraterrestrials in heaven? The scriptures are strangely silent on this although there is a quote from Jesus who says “Other sheep I have that are not of this flock.” Was he referring to extra terrestrials – or just the Gentiles?

As always, I’m interesting in your thinking on this.
Click to expand...
The Lord was referring to Gentiles. IF there are other planets with beings able to know God, one must consider that they - unlike us - may never have lost friendship with God. Perelandra, from the C.S. Lewis trilogy already recommended to you, addresses this.

Regarding Islam, here are two article which may be of interest:

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305clas.asp
 
dchezik said:
One more question:
What about intelligent life we are likely to encounter on other planets? Paul Davies discusses this in his book Are We Alone?. Apparently this has concerned several theologians who wonder if a Jesus analogue would have to emerge on those distant planets and undergo the equivalent of crucifixion for these beings to escape God’s unrelenting justice.

Some say it is too horrible to contemplate – that the Son of God would have to be reincarnated in different life forms and suffer innumerable deaths to provide salvation for those sinners as well. Others say that radio transmission to them about Jesus’ life on earth would serve as a kind of techno-evangelism. The problem is they’d have to wait for millions of years for the message to travel those light years across space!

What do you guys think? Will there be “redeemed” extraterrestrials in heaven? The scriptures are strangely silent on this although there is a quote from Jesus who says “Other sheep I have that are not of this flock.” Was he referring to extra terrestrials – or just the Gentiles?

As always, I’m interesting in your thinking on this.
Click to expand...
Easy: There is only One God; Proven Creator of the Universe, and all the Intelligence in it. Blessed John Paul II the Great unifficially addressed this matter in the early 1990’s: There Likelly Is “Life” in other parts off the Universe (‘algea’, etc). That has No effect on Our Lord, Our Faith, God: John Paul II unofficially. (Most of us don’t know The Pope has the Greatest knowledge in the world Available, SCIENCE also especially. Science Facts: (1) the Distances In the Universe are so Massive, that it is Extremely Unlikelly that even Electronic Signals from Other “Intelligences” could even Reach us during Human Existence: remember the Speed of Light rules (2) The Rarity/improbality of Human 'Intelligence"/Talents is Extremly unlikelly elsewhere; especially travelling distance. A few million Light Years has Physical Effects on the 'Traveller":rolleyes:🤓:hey_bud:: Einstein.
The key Operative in all Physics, Astronomy is advanced Mathematics. Numbers Prove The Points, AS HAS BEEN DONE IN PROVING THE BIG BANG Origin of ***Everything***, of **Dr/Fr Georges Lemaitre**, in his 1920's Theory. Not widelly acknowledged, because he Was The SCIENTIST/***Priest***, perhaps in History. Einstein Honored him as almost Equal. Search "[SIGN]BIG BANG [/SIGN] Proven "Theory" on Wikki
 
FCEGM said:
The Lord was referring to Gentiles. IF there are other planets with beings able to know God, one must consider that they - unlike us - may never have lost friendship with God. Perelandra, from the C.S. Lewis trilogy already recommended to you, addresses this.

Regarding Islam, here are two article which may be of interest:

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305clas.asp
Click to expand...
Caution in reading the first article, which is Post 9/11; I disagree that Islam was “Heretical” because Muhamed and original Islam did Not Leave The Church. The Second article is more balanced, accurate, including the detailed Catholic attitude that Islam can be Respected. Islam Terrorism is a Violation of Basic Islam and Quran.
 
dchezik said:
Hi Everyone! I’m following this Muslim website. islamreligion.com/ Do you have any suggestions for how to refute what they say? If a person pronounces the Shahada (“There is no God but God, etc.”) sincerely and with conviction, are their sins really forgiven as they claim? How could you show that they weren’t (if they weren’t)? It just seems a little unlikely and hocus pocussy to claim if you say these magic words all your sins are forgiven. Do you think you could be a Christian and Muslim simultaneously? The only problem is you’d have to admit Mohammed was a prophet.

I think they probably believe this as much as you believe Christianity.

I frequently engage them in friendly discussion online and wondered if you all had any powerful arguments for them. Keep in mind they probably wouldn’t accept a Biblical argument. Incidentally, as incredible as it seems, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world! Now that’s scary!
Click to expand...
  • (1) No! IMO, Christian and Muslim are 2 very different Faiths And Cultures; impossible to be both Faiths. But The Church recognizes Basic Islam with Respect. Can’t be Catholic and Protestant either: too different. :hey_bud::slapfight:
    Code: 
                                                                                                                        (2)   We    don't  need to  'refute'  other faiths  or  find  fault. Our  Faith teaches  respect  for others,   and other Faiths especially.     "Refuting"   and Arguing  only  creates     antagonsms, instead of  Understandings.     We  can Respectfully  explain  how  Our Faith   differs  from others,  again  Respectfully,  only if we know    what  we're  talking  about, not our opinions.    

                                                                                                                     Let's  never think  their ideas  or    words  are  'hocus  pocusy',    any more than they      callling Our  liturgies   or  prayers  the  same.  

                                                                                                                     It's  good to  stay in  areas  we know  very  well:  Other Cultures   and Faiths we  must know  Very Well,  as well  as our Own,  to  discuss.    Let the Experts  do those; it's Not for Us  Amateurs.      We Only   cause serious  harm: to  Our Faith or Culture,    as well  as Theirs.  Leave the   talks to experts;  We're not.     :hey_bud::sad_bye:

                                                                                                                  Live in  Jesus;  Love Our Lord.
 
AntalKalnoky said:
  • (1) No! IMO, Christian and Muslim are 2 very different Faiths And Cultures; impossible to be both Faiths. But The Church recognizes Basic Islam with Respect. Can’t be Catholic and Protestant either: too different. :hey_bud::slapfight:
    Code: 
                                                                                                                        (2)   We    don't  need to  'refute'  other faiths  or  find  fault. Our  Faith teaches  respect  for others,   and other Faiths especially.     "Refuting"   and Arguing  only  creates     antagonsms, instead of  Understandings.     We  can Respectfully  explain  how  Our Faith   differs  from others,  again  Respectfully,  only if we know    what  we're  talking  about, not our opinions.    

                                                                                                                     Let's  never think  their ideas  or    words  are  'hocus  pocusy',    any more than they      callling Our  liturgies   or  prayers  the  same.  

                                                                                                                     It's  good to  stay in  areas  we know  very  well:  Other Cultures   and Faiths we  must know  Very Well,  as well  as our Own,  to  discuss.    Let the Experts  do those; it's Not for Us  Amateurs.      We Only   cause serious  harm: to  Our Faith or Culture,    as well  as Theirs.  Leave the   talks to experts;  We're not.     :hey_bud::sad_bye:

                                                                                                                  Live in  Jesus;  Love Our Lord.
Click to expand...
"It’s good to stay in areas we know very well: Other Cultures and Faiths we must know Very Well, as well as our Own, to discuss. Let the Experts do those; it’s Not for Us Amateurs."

I don’t understand this approach! How can you learn and grow if you don’t get out of your comfort zone? I wouldn’t know as much as I do if I hadn’t stepped out of what I was familiar with. I don’t know everything, but I do know somethings. I am intrigued by these things and want to continue learning. There’s a good chance that I may even know more about Catholicism than you do. Throughout my life, I have tried to expose myself to other points of view to learn and evaluate. I have had long respectful discussions with Catholic priests, nuns and Protestant ministers. I have a good friend who was a 7th Day Adventist minister who I discussed many things with. When I was at St. Bonaventure University as a counseling center director, I talked with several priests to hear what they thought. The current vice president of Campus Crusade is a friend of mine who I roomed with at Michigan State. His father ran Bibletown in Boca Raton. Like I said if you only discuss things you know well, you’ll never learn anything! Of course, I was already pretty well-versed in science from being a physics major before I went on to get a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Indiana University. I spent three undergraduate years at Wheaton College (Billy Graham’s alma mater) but I wish I had paid more attention to my Bible classes. Anyway, I’ve been around the block.

A final thought here: I’m surprised at the sentiment that you should respect and not debate other faiths. Those without Jesus will end up in hell won’t they? Didn’t the disciples argue with other faiths? If somebody believes something wrong that will send them to hell, aren’t you obligated to correct that mistake?

Incidentally, I’ve been ragging on you for your beliefs, why don’t you challenge me on mine?
 
Carlan said:
Hello Dehezek,
Christ descended into hell… from the Apostoles creed.

Church teaches that Jesus decended into hell and in his soul joined other in ther realm of the dead.
But he decended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.
Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the*** parable of the poor man Lazarus who was rec’d into “Abraham’s bosom”.***
It is precisely these holysouls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned ,nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.​
/From my notes, hope this helps, Peace, Carlan
Click to expand...
Hi, Carlan. The Church teaches, in it's incredible 2000 years all inclusive wisdom searching, thinking, that "Hell" did not exist before Our Lord's coming; there was a 'holding condition' before Our Lord: That is where he went, not the Hell that began soon. Welcome! Each of us thinking, learning so much here and on EWTN. :thumbsup:
 
dchezik said:
"It’s good to stay in areas we know very well: Other Cultures and Faiths we must know Very Well, as well as our Own, to discuss. Let the Experts do those; it’s Not for Us Amateurs."

I don’t understand this approach! How can you learn and grow if you don’t get out of your comfort zone? I wouldn’t know as much as I do if I hadn’t stepped out of what I was familiar with. I don’t know everything, but I do know somethings. I am intrigued by these things and want to continue learning. There’s a good chance that I may even know more about Catholicism than you do. Throughout my life, I have tried to expose myself to other points of view to learn and evaluate. I have had long respectful discussions with Catholic priests, nuns and Protestant ministers. I have a good friend who was a 7th Day Adventist minister who I discussed many things with. When I was at St. Bonaventure University as a counseling center director, I talked with several priests to hear what they thought. The current vice president of Campus Crusade is a friend of mine who I roomed with at Michigan State. His father ran Bibletown in Boca Raton. Like I said if you only discuss things you know well, you’ll never learn anything! Of course, I was already pretty well-versed in science from being a physics major before I went on to get a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Indiana University. I spent three undergraduate years at Wheaton College (Billy Graham’s alma mater) but I wish I had paid more attention to my Bible classes. Anyway, I’ve been around the block.

A final thought here: I’m surprised at the sentiment that you should respect and not debate other faiths. Those without Jesus will end up in hell won’t they? Didn’t the disciples argue with other faiths? If somebody believes something wrong that will send them to hell, aren’t you obligated to correct that mistake?

Incidentally, I’ve been ragging on you for your beliefs, why don’t you challenge me on mine?
Click to expand...
Yes, brother in Christ. Correct misunderstandings, and we Learn By studying, searching for answers, as I have the 20 years since I returned to The Church, after considering EWTN Answers, ideas. Best move I ever made. But “Debate” is not the best word; Answer respectfully those things we Know. We [SIGN]Legion of Mary[/SIGN](see my thread) Door-to-door are Experts in discussing with everyone, drawing Respect and getting households to start thinking About God, returning or finding The Church. Our Number One Rule: Never Argue. Always Respect the Other; and we have difficulty following our Methods: “let the Person do 70% of the talking” :rolleyes:; we’re lucky to try for 50%! ( And we Know the Bible qoutes on Most things Catholic. Confession Apostolic Powers Through the Apostles, By Our Lord…John 20:23) 😉 :blessyou: Have also always been intrigued in hearing other’s viewpoints, and Why they have them, since I learned English in 1950, as WW II refugee 9 year old. Am so lucky to be “70 Yearl old” eager student. “Learn and Live” and Vicy Versy 😉
 
=dchezik;8158524]I’m a former Christian who couldn’t accept the irrationality in the different denominations. Which one is really the true one?
Click to expand...
WITH LOGIC, Candor and the ability to READ for yourself; this ought not be an issue. HERE’S WHY.

I can [literally] show you 100 passages in the NT alone that speak of ONLY One God, One faith[set of beliefs] and Only one Church.

Same is true of the OT, NOT a word, not one word is spoken by God that suggest or approves of more than One God, One set of teachings and beliefs, and One Temple [now the CC]. NOT ONE WORD:thumbsup:

God alway desires TRUTH; and THEE truth is One God, One Faith and ONLY Once Church which is why he jesus founded One Only Just as Yahweh founded the Jewish Faith as “One” and One “Only.”

Here are but a FEW examples; wnat more info; senfd me a PM…

Phil.2: 2 “complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.”

Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

**Eph. 2: 18-22 **“ for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,[SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

**John 17:18-24 "**As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world

**Eph. 5: 23 **Christ is the head of the church [singular] , his body, [singular]

**1 Cor. 14: 12 **“ So with yourselves; since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. [singular]

Eph. 3: 9-10 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [singular] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,

**Col. 1: 18 **“ He is the head of the body [singular], the church; [singular] he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell”

**Acts 20: 28 **“Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of the LORD” [Singular]

Friend, if your REALLY seeking truth, send me a PM…

I CAN HELP YOU!

God Bless,
Pat
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top