V
victrolatim
Guest
I thought of this when I read a recent thread regarding Purgatory “disappearing” after Vatican II. Why was it decided to do away with black vestments? Are we not supposed to mourn the dead?
- Status
C
Corki
Guest
They weren’t done away with but the vestment options for funeral Masses are white, black or purple. Since there are other occasions for the purple and white vestments, I think few parishes invest in a complete set of black vestments and altar cloths.
F
FrDavid96
Guest
Black vestments were never eliminated. They’ve always been the proper color for funerals.
White is now an option (at least in the U.S.), but one that is unfortunately being used too often.
S
seagal
Guest
Why unfortunately? A funeral mass is meant to be a celebration. Our loved one is going home.
F
FrDavid96
Guest
No. It is not meant to be a celebration*. It is a time for pray for the soul of the deceased.
We pray for the deceased soul because we do not know if that soul is going to eternal Life or eternal punishment.
edit
*Not exclusively, at least. There might be moments of “celebration” such as thanking God for the blessings He bestowed on the deceased while alive. But we do not celebrate that the deceased is going to heaven, because that presumes on God’s judgement. We pray for that in hope.
B
bardegaulois
Guest
Eventually, we hope. Funerals aren’t about celebrating the dead, but about prayers and offering penance for them. It irritates me when I go to a Catholic funeral Mass that resembles a canonization ceremony.
U
Usige
Guest
I was talking to our pastor about black vestments and funeral Masses. He has talked a bit about Catholic funerals becoming mini canonizations where everyone assumes their loved one is in Heaven. As he rightly tells people, we should pray for them and other souls in purgatory. So I asked him why we use white vestments for both funerals and all saints day and he seemed puzzled. This is how I explained it:
White - Church Triumphant (Those in Heaven [aka Saints])
Black - Church Penitent (Those in purgatory)
Violet - Church Militant (Those on earth)
After we talked he said he would look into getting a set of black vestments for All Souls day and funerals of those who wished them. Personally I hope that when my time comes that the priest and deacon wear black and sing Dies Ire so that people remember to pray for my soul in purgatory and not simply assume that I am on my way to Heaven. Celebrate if they wish, but I would appreciate their prayers for my soul more.
[NOTE: I believe it was Father David that really got me to thinking about liturgical colors and the three parts of the Church, so thank you Father]
M
midori
Guest
I’ve seen it at some larger churches, but at my small, poor, rural church, they don’t have a set of black vestments. They don’t have a set of rose vestments, either. I suppose it’s a practical matter of how frequently such vestments would be used, vs the size of their bank account and the number of other things they need to spend funds on.
I know white, purple, or black are all acceptable.
I know white, purple, or black are all acceptable.
If you want your church to have a set of black vestments, get the priest’s measurements and donate an awesome set.
F
FrDavid96
Guest
It’s good to hear that he’s open to them.
I wish you the best of luck (and the whispering of the Holy Spirit) that you’ll have success.
If he’s a little hesitant, maybe a good price can convince him.
I ordered most of mine from catholicliturgicals.com however I MUST warn you that their site often gets hacked, so be very careful about security. I use a tablet (not a computer) to order from them to avoid viruses (not from them, but from the hackers) and be sure to use PayPal so that it won’t compromise any financial information.
They have several black Gothic-style chasubles, in variations of black/gold and black/silver. The price is only $69 for the vestments (chasuble & stole only), or $99 for the full set (vestments, chalice veil, burse, maniple). At those prices, I bought a few concelebrants’ sets (with the single vertical stripe) for $59, for those times when we have visiting priests at funerals. They also have black funeral palls at very reasonable prices—but one step at a time.
F
FrDavid96
Guest
Also, see my recent post. I don’t know if you’ve ever priced vestments, but the ones at that site are very reasonable indeed.…
If you want your church to have a set of black vestments, get the priest’s measurements and donate an awesome set.
The modern vestments that say “look at me, I’m so rich I can afford to spend a small fortune to look like I’m poor” can run over $2,000 a set.
Again, be careful about internet security. It’s the one drawback to their website. Their vestments are very well-done.
B
bardegaulois
Guest
I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who’s noticed that the amount of money that some will expend in order to look poor or simple or humble.
C
ChibiViolet
Guest
I LOVE black vestments. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen them very often–only on two All Souls’ Days…Black is my favorite color…I understand it represents death, suffering and sorrow, but I like it anyway.
V
victrolatim
Guest
There is a certain power to seeing black vestments that I can’t explain. It focuses one’s spiritual mindset almost instantly (at least for me).
U
Usige
Guest
It was actually a thread last year around the Feast of All Souls that prompted me to talk to him. After you shared some of the vestments I figured it was worth a shot. Haven’t been in the vesting sacristy recently to see if he did purchase any. I’m going for gentle nudges rather than being pushy, but appreciate the prayers to the Holy Spirit in any case.
T
TK421
Guest
They can also wear black vestments on All Souls Day.
T
TimothyH
Guest
Black as the color of mourning is not universal. In many parts of the world it is white or ruby-red. White was often the color of deepest mourning in medieval Europe.
-Tim-
-Tim-
F
FrDavid96
Guest
That’s why the Church makes provision for the Conference of Bishops to determine that another color may (other than violet or black) may also be worn at funerals and other Masses for the dead, to accommodate the sensibilities of different cultures.
The problem we have is that for the majority of American culture, white is not a color of mourning, but is instead one associated with celebration. Most of the time, it sends the wrong message. This especially applies when it is combined with other elements that lead one to think that a funeral is about sending the deceased to Heaven.
We need to restore our proper Catholic understanding (indeed dogma of the faith) that not everyone goes to Heaven, and even those who do must still pass through Purgatory.
C
CB_Catholic
Guest
Father, be careful about Paypal also. My son had his account hacked and someone charged up thousands of dollars on his account. He did report it to the police also, and they actually caught the offender (s). Also, there are some scams going around right now with Paypal. I reported one this week. Somebody posing as Paypal trying to get me to update information (which of course would give them information). Just thought I’d share this info.
- Status