What happened to Catholic art?

[aroosi]

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[Pitcairn17]

Vote with your feet and with your tithes and offerings. Find a parish that looks unmistakably Catholic and has a suitably reverent approach to liturgy, and make that your home. My heart aches when I see a beautiful Catholic church shut its doors while a few blocks away a church that looks like a bloody Howard Johnson’s continues to operate. One of the loveliest churches in my city, St John the Baptist’s of New Bedford, Massachusetts, was closed down in 2012, while there are a dozen modernist abominations within a five mile radius that carry on.

St. John the Baptist Parish was given a multi-year opportunity by the Diocese of Fall River to boost its activities and census. In the end the Portuguese community the parish historically served moved and intermarrued, and continuing support of a huge century-old building became unfeasible. I’d be interested in your definition of “modernist abominations.” I’m unaware that there are 12 new Catholic Churches within a 25-mile radius, let alone 5 miles. And if you mean St. James further down County Street, last I checked, that church is Irish Gothic, though that may not be to your taste. And finally, I’d rather attend a parish that actually acted Catholic rather than just “looking Catholic.”

 

[IanM]

From my perspective, any charm of old churches quickly evaporates once you’ve worshipped for midnight Mass in a humid, 105 degree Victorian-era sandstone church that has no air conditioning and minimal air circulation. Compared to that, my “modernist” parish church built in the 1950s was a glimpse of beatific vision with air conditioning and climate control.

Yet our ancestors built them and worshiped in them with great fervour!

 

[Bithynian]

Yet our ancestors built them and worshiped in them with great fervour!

I’ve witnessed great fervour in churches built in modern times. In any case, Australia is a relatively young country and most of our churches (especially in suburban areas) are relatively new.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Yet our ancestors built them and worshiped in them with great fervour!

That’s irrelevant from a practcal standpoint.

 

[IanM]

That’s irrelevant from a practcal standpoint.

The people who struggled to save, build and worship in them obviously did not think so.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The people who struggled to save, build and worship in them obviously did not think so.

Then it only matters to them.

 

[IanM]

VanitasVanitatum

5m

The people who struggled to save, build and worship in them obviously did not think so.

Then it only matters to them.

“Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.”​

― G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

That only matters where orthodoxy is concerned, otherwise whether something is practical or not is a better standard.

 

[PenguinBeak]

I’m sure older buildings can have air con installed into them. I don’t know how expensive that is though. Could be a couple thousand dollary doos.

 

[Bithynian]

I’m sure older buildings can have air con installed into them. I don’t know how expensive that is though. Could be a couple thousand dollary doos.

From what I recollect my previous parish assessed the cost at somewhere around $130,000. The typical cost of installing ducted air conditioning in a newly built home in Sydney $12,000. Note that this is in Australia where wages are quite high.

Not to mention there were additional headaches in negotiating the minutiae of a Heritage listed building (can’t touch this, can’t rearrange this, have to find matching material for that, etc.).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m sure older buildings can have air con installed into them. I don’t know how expensive that is though. Could be a couple thousand dollary doos.

My favorite “upgrade” to an old Catholic church is one where they installed a restroom in the rear of the worship space and made it look like an old confessional. I always hope no one gets confused and thinks they are going to confession only to discover it’s the loo.

 

[vsedriver]

the sculpture in the Pope Paul VI Audience Hall is not of the resurrection but of Christ freeing the souls who were in the ‘bosom of Abraham’ waiting to go to heaven. The artist created it during the height of the atomic age and wanted to use the image of a massive ‘explosion’ to illustrate the liberation of the holy ones.

also it is hard to judge sculpture from a photograph. Photography flattens the image and often times the sculpture is much more dramatic in person where you can pick out the details and get the full effect of the lighting in the space. Modern art is not everyone’s cup of tea and I still say that is due to a lack of art education.

Also the church is universal, not stuck in northern Europe. What works great in a cold, northern country doesn’t work in a hot, wet climate. Maintenance is a key issue in church architecture. My church is spending $250, 000 to restore stain glass windows. That’s a ton of money for a small, aging parish.

Art is alive and well in the Catholic Church.

 

[vsedriver]

Personally I think painting and sculpture peaked in the 19th century.

yes, the 19th century produced a lot of pretty pictures. But I think Andrew Wyeth, Salvador Dali, Gustav Klimt were far ahead of the impressionists of the 19th century. Dale Chihuly’s glass sculptures are more exquisite than anything Rodan did in the 19th century.

 

[vsedriver]

Find a parish that looks unmistakably Catholic

I don’t know what you mean by ‘looks’ unmistakably Catholic. There are 4 other churches in a two block area on the street with our Catholic Church. They are all neo-gothic, stone structures with stained glass. The only way you can tell which is which is by the signs out front.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

yes, the 19th century produced a lot of pretty pictures. But I think Andrew Wyeth, Salvador Dali, Gustav Klimt were far ahead of the impressionists of the 19th century. Dale Chihuly’s glass sculptures are more exquisite than anything Rodan did in the 19th century.

Im not a fan of abstract art. The most difficult thing to paint or sculpt is a human. I have more appreciation for the skill required.
I meant to say the 19th century was the decline for the styles I admire.
Renaissance was the peak really

 

[Joe_5859]

also it is hard to judge sculpture from a photograph. Photography flattens the image and often times the sculpture is much more dramatic in person where you can pick out the details and get the full effect of the lighting in the space.

That is true. I’ve been in the Paul VI auditorium and have seen the sculpture in person, and I still do a double take when people post pictures because the pictures don’t look the same as it does in real life.

Not that it’s my favorite sculpture ever. It’s definitely not. But the pictures generally make it look worse than it looks it reality.

 

[vsedriver]

The most difficult thing to paint or sculpt is a human

no artist would make that statement. A person is no harder to paint or sculpt than anything else you can see. Frankly, I think people are easy and horses are hard! This is not a brag, but I can draw and draw really, really well. I have a natural talent as well as the skill. But I don’t do fine art. Drives my sister crazy. She’s the fine artist in the family. We both have degrees in fine art but I found I preferred design to fine art.

I’m more interested in the look of functional things then creating art whose purpose is to engages the mind or emotions.

How do you feel about Norman Rockwell?

I’m not impressed with Renaissance painting outside of Caravaggio who many just copied. I like Renaissance sculpture because it is a bit more powerful than Ancient Greek sculpture and not as propagandistic as Classical Roman sculpture.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

no artist would make that statement

LoL im no artist just speaking from my very limited experience.

A person is no harder to paint or sculpt than anything else you can see.

Ye that’s a fair point i think. Would an abstract painting of something we can’t see be easier than painting something we can see like a someone’s portrait?

I’m more interested in the look of functional things then creating art whose purpose is to engages the mind or emotions.

Im also very interested in functional things but my engineering background satisfies that interest, it falls in the realm of science.
For me art engages my mind and emotions like music and film. So im especially fond of depictions of biblical scenes.
I view architecture as a branch of engineering rather than art

I’m not impressed with Renaissance painting outside of Caravaggio who many just copied.

A harsh criticism I think but one you are entitled to

 

[vsedriver]

I view architecture as a branch of engineering rather than art

interesting, I see architecture as art. Buildings like the Sydney Opera House are really just very large sculptures.