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Booklover
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cute2904 said:
Is there anything that Islam does not forbid?? Everything is “you can’t do this, you can’t do that”.
Whatever happened to “free will”? Simple, in Islam it does not exist.
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Is there anything that Islam does not forbid?? Everything is “you can’t do this, you can’t do that”.
Whatever happened to “free will”? Simple, in Islam it does not exist.
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exoflare
Guest
I know I have my moments sometimes too, but I’m trying to stop myself from making posts like this. I’d encourage others to do the same.Is there anything that Islam does not forbid?? Everything is “you can’t do this, you can’t do that”.
Whatever happened to “free will”? Simple, in Islam it does not exist.
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Faith101
Guest
Actually, in normal day to day activities the rule is “EVERYTHING is allowed, except those things that are forbidden”Is there anything that Islam does not forbid?? Everything is “you can’t do this, you can’t do that”.
Whatever happened to “free will”? Simple, in Islam it does not exist.
You have free will…you either CHOOSE to worship and submit to God’s will…or you CHOOSE not to. Simple.
Its very similiar to the fact that Catholics can not commit adultery. Can i say you have no free will? No, I can say that you FREELY choose to not do what God has forbidden.
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Booklover
Guest
This is what the Cathechism of the Catholic Church says about animals:
2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi of St. Philip Neri treated animals.
2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals, if it remains within reasonable limits, is a morally acceptable practice since it contributes to caring for or saving human lives.
2418 it is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.
Vickie
2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi of St. Philip Neri treated animals.
2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals, if it remains within reasonable limits, is a morally acceptable practice since it contributes to caring for or saving human lives.
2418 it is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.
Vickie
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Booklover
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Sorry, you’re right, I deleted it!
Vickie
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exoflare
Guest
Booklover said:
Thanks for understanding.
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Booklover
Guest
It just seems that so many things are forbidden in Islam! That’s right, God has given us free will and we can either accept or reject his teachings. Like I’ve said before, he does not force anything on us. If God forced us not to do something, he would be denying us the free will he created us with. He either gave us complete free will or not. It’s one or the other. It can’t be halfway.Don’t know if that makes sense!
How can we learn to withstand temptation, if the temptation is removed? It’s like a billboard I saw once that stated “Don’t let a good boy go wrong, lock your car”. Locking the car is meant to deter people from stealing the car. If the boy is really a good boy, he wouldn’t steal the car in the first place even if it were open and with the key in the ignition!
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Booklover
Guest
The Catechism states:
311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously knows how to derive good from it.
THE FALL OF THE ANGELS
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel called “Satan” or the “devil”. The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing”.
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.” The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.
Vickie
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Faith101
Guest
Booklover, what exactly are you saying? Do you have an issue with the Islamic concept of free will? Do you not believe that Muslims believe that we have free will? I dont understand what you mean
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Faith101
Guest
Ok, thats your belief. We can agree to disagree
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Booklover
Guest
I think your lives are too regimented. Virtue is forced on you, you don’t get to choose it on your own. You’re forced to do things in a certain way. For instance, you can’t dress modestly in any other way other than what Islam prescribes. That’s more or less what I mean.
Vickie
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Faith101
Guest
Vickie,
I cant believe this is coming from a practicing Christian. These statements usually come from self-worshipping atheists who refuse to recognize God let alone obey His commands. I hope that I am misunderstanding what you are saying.
God has legislated laws for us…do you want me to IGNORE God’s laws to obey my own? God, the Creator, has revealed to us (His creation) the things that would be *best * for us. Now, I can either do what He says or ignore it, thats my free will…and I will be responsible my choice. Virtue is NOT forced on us…i sincerely wish it was…sometimes I wish that I would be automatically good all the time, never disobeying God. But I make mistakes, and at the end of the day I depend on the mercy of my Creator.
In any case, I’ve heard it quoted many times on this forum, and its something I think is very insightful…so i will remind you of it here.
You worship God in your way and me in His.
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Tonks40
Guest
When my aunt owned a dog in the Philippines (Tondo, Manila), she put her on the roof…so that the neighbor’s wouldn’t eat it!Its very true, I have a friend who brought back pictures of skinned dogs hanging out to dry with for sale signs on them!
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ben_dy
Guest
Vickie,
You seem to be saying that God requires more of those who are Islamic than those who are Christian… and there may be some truth in that. An orthodox Jew follows 613 commandments of God - far more than we Christians would think that we are required to follow but my point is that of the three ‘Abrahamic’ religions in the world, all have laws that they believe are given by God and all have practices which, usually dependent on what is deemed best for the religion at a given time (and which, for Catholics, would cover everything from the practice of priestly celibacy to the practice of a woman covering her head at Mass) and, sometimes, in different regions.
To Christians, both Islam and Judaism are going to seem particularly ‘rule-laden’ precisely because the rules are found in sacred or near sacred works and, in one way, we Christians ‘cheat’ a bit by using verses from the Old Testament to act as ‘proof texts’ for some of those things we view as commandments (both positive & negative) while ignoring things such as dietary laws (which, if you recall, caused quite a stir amongst the Apostles).
I don’t think it’s quite fair to categorically say that all Muslims have virtue ‘forced’ upon them - they have the same free will as do Christians whether or not to do that which God commands.
Now if you’re speaking of nations in which Islam is the state religion, that’s a wholly different subject and far beyond what has been discussed on this thread.
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DeExupery
Guest
Dear Faith,
May be sis Booklover doesn’t mean to hurt you. God’s laws must be given for betterment of humanity. That should be our guide. If any of God laws make us less human (treat other bad, kill, or anything), it should be questioned what God gives that kind of laws.
Back to dogs, I believe dogs have some animal instinct that enable them to survive. I don’t know why Angels can’t come when there’s dog. A lot of animals are dirtier than dogs, and could give us illness as well. Even cats, can have some bactery that give infection to us, especially women (I forget what is the name, but it can affect women’s pregnancy). So I don’t know why angels cannot come when there’s a dog and can come when there’s a cat. Dogs are much more loyal than cats, and once they befriend with us, dogs can sacrifice their lives to us. That’s why, while I value cats for their independent nature, I value dogs for their faithfullness.
Fox
May be sis Booklover doesn’t mean to hurt you. God’s laws must be given for betterment of humanity. That should be our guide. If any of God laws make us less human (treat other bad, kill, or anything), it should be questioned what God gives that kind of laws.
Back to dogs, I believe dogs have some animal instinct that enable them to survive. I don’t know why Angels can’t come when there’s dog. A lot of animals are dirtier than dogs, and could give us illness as well. Even cats, can have some bactery that give infection to us, especially women (I forget what is the name, but it can affect women’s pregnancy). So I don’t know why angels cannot come when there’s a dog and can come when there’s a cat. Dogs are much more loyal than cats, and once they befriend with us, dogs can sacrifice their lives to us. That’s why, while I value cats for their independent nature, I value dogs for their faithfullness.
Fox
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radhika
Guest
We have been given steward ship over Gods animals, we are to look after them and not hurt them. certainly God will never tell us that any animal will prevent Him from approching us. I love dogs. I love cats, monkeys, squrrels any of the marvellous creatures he has made. . I feed a large number of stray dogs which live on our streets, they have no one else. Many of them live in our compound, and roam around my house freelyI cannot imagine them keeping God away from me.
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cute2904
Guest
Methinks everybody’s post in regard to explain about dogs are reasonable. Somewhere in sahih hadith says about washing 7x after dog licks part of your body. 6x with water and 1x with sand. 
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DeExupery
Guest
Dear Cute,
I don’t know, but I believe no animal is dirtier than others. Methink there’s something wrong. What about Camel (and Camel Piss)? What about cats?
If Dogs are so bad and prevent angels to come, why they are created by God Almighty? Methink someting illogical is going on here.
Fox
I don’t know, but I believe no animal is dirtier than others. Methink there’s something wrong. What about Camel (and Camel Piss)? What about cats?
If Dogs are so bad and prevent angels to come, why they are created by God Almighty? Methink someting illogical is going on here.
Fox
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Cyber_Knight
Guest
Hello Antoine de Saint Exupery! (I believe you got it from Little Prince book!)
There is so many illogical in the hadith regarding these animals. I believe God has created something worth (including camel’s urine) Nonetheless preventing the angels to come is something that need logical explanation.
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DeExupery
Guest
Ah hoy, Cyber Knight.
Yes you are right. I would love to be the fox, but alas I am only a boa constrictor.
Fox
Yes you are right. I would love to be the fox, but alas I am only a boa constrictor.
Fox
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