What Happened to Dogs?

[Booklover]

Faith101:

Vickie,

I cant believe this is coming from a practicing Christian. These statements usually come from self-worshipping atheists who refuse to recognize God let alone obey His commands. I hope that I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

God has legislated laws for us…do you want me to IGNORE God’s laws to obey my own? God, the Creator, has revealed to us (His creation) the things that would be *best *for us. Now, I can either do what He says or ignore it, thats my free will…and I will be responsible my choice. Virtue is NOT forced on us…i sincerely wish it was…sometimes I wish that I would be automatically good all the time, never disobeying God. But I make mistakes, and at the end of the day I depend on the mercy of my Creator.

In any case, I’ve heard it quoted many times on this forum, and its something I think is very insightful…so i will remind you of it here.

You worship God in your way and me in His.

Hi Faith! I’m glad we’re talking again! If you knew how long I sat here trying to put into words what I meant, instead of doing what I was really supposed to be doing, and I still didn’t get it right!

I’m sorry, I never meant anything about ignoring God’s laws! It is precisely that I am a Christian that I dress modestly. In the Catechism it states: Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

All I’m saying is that Christians can choose what to wear as long as it’s decent. We don’t all have to dress the same way. That would destroy a person’s individuality. You on the other hand, don’t seem to have a choice in what to wear.

Hope I’m making sense this time!

To get back to the topic of dogs, I’ve heard that petting dogs or cats can actually lower a person’s blood pressure!

There’s an organization that gets pets for older people who live alone. Having a pet really keeps them going.

I’ve had dogs, cats, a small parrot and parakeets and a turtle. When I was little we had a German Shepherd named Nelson, who used to sleep under my bed and woe to anyone he didn’t know who came into my bedroom! He was my protector.

My last pet was a big black and white cat named Butch. He looked like one too! I still miss him!

Vickie

 

[raceland]

There’s an organization that gets pets for older people who live alone. Having a pet really keeps them going.

booklover,
if you had strong social ties like muslims, you wouldn’t be needing pets to lower blood pressure.

 

[janG]

Meeowww Raceland…your claws are showing. There are many, many reasons why an older person may be living alone which have absolutely nothing to do with strong social ties. You’re ignoring the fact that pets, including the dreaded dogs, have been scientifically proven to be beneficial for health. Just a few links in case you’re actually interested in facts:

cdc.gov/healthypets/health_benefits.htm
stjohn.org/healthinfolib/hgArticle.aspx?DocID=/healthy/alternative/2002/petbenefits

 

[Faith101]

janG:

Meeowww Raceland…your claws are showing. There are many, many reasons why an older person may be living alone which have absolutely nothing to do with strong social ties. You’re ignoring the fact that pets, including the dreaded dogs, have been scientifically proven to be beneficial for health. Just a few links in case you’re actually interested in facts:

cdc.gov/healthypets/health_benefits.htm
stjohn.org/healthinfolib/hgArticle.aspx?DocID=/healthy/alternative/2002/petbenefits

JanG

I’ll stress the point that it is not about what WE precieve to be good/healthy for us. If that were the case, then we wouldnt need any rules, no need for any commandments.

The Devil, which is my enemy and yours, convinced our parents that eating from the forbidden tree was GOOD for them, although God had told them not to without giving any reason.

I choose to be a Muslim, literally one who submits to the will of God. If that means to give up having a dog as a house pet, then I believe that having God pleased with me is worth the sacrifice.

 

[Faith101]

Hi Faith! I’m glad we’re talking again! If you knew how long I sat here trying to put into words what I meant, instead of doing what I was really supposed to be doing, and I still didn’t get it right!

I’m sorry, I never meant anything about ignoring God’s laws! It is precisely that I am a Christian that I dress modestly. In the Catechism it states: Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing.

It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

All I’m saying is that Christians can choose what to wear as long as it’s decent. We don’t all have to dress the same way. That would destroy a person’s individuality. You on the other hand, don’t seem to have a choice in what to wear.

I understand what you mean.

Vickie… Have you ever spent some time with real-life Muslims? Usually, everyone has their own sense of style and dress differently, but all try to abide by the rules that Allah has legislated.

I’m very happy with the fact that modesty has been defined for us, leaving not much room for error. I knew some Christians who were discussing the topic of modesty and each came to their own conclusion…some thought legs could be shown, others thought showing parts of their chest could do no harm, etc. The truth is the definition of modesty, when left to us humans, changes drastically. Think about what modesty meant in the 1920s and what it means now. They defined their own sense of modesty, but is it really modesty?

To get back to the topic of dogs,

I’ve heard that petting dogs or cats can actually lower a person’s blood pressure!

There’s an organization that gets pets for older people who live alone. Having a pet really keeps them going.

I’ve had dogs, cats, a small parrot and parakeets and a turtle. When I was little we had a German Shepherd named Nelson, who used to sleep under my bed and woe to anyone he didn’t know who came into my bedroom! He was my protector.

See my post replying to JanG. Vickie, if you believed that God said not to do something, would it matter what the percieved benefits are? Or would you rush to please Him?

My last pet was a big black and white cat named Butch. He looked like one too! I still miss him!

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

I am really confused…like I told you, how God created dogs if even His Angels are so afraid of them and can’t come near to someone who is with dogs? Methink something is illogical here.
And how about cats? Cats are dirty too, and some cats have bactery that can harm women. But God loves cats.

Fox

 

[Faith101]

DeExupery:

Dear Faith,

I am really confused…like I told you, how God created dogs if even His Angels are so afraid of them and can’t come near to someone who is with dogs? Methink something is illogical here.
And how about cats? Cats are dirty too, and some cats have bactery that can harm women. But God loves cats.

Fox

Where does it say that the Angels are *scared * of the dogs?

It is a waste of my time and yours for us to discuss the reasoning behind the laws of God. Again, this is exactly what the Devil did to convince Adam and Eve to disobey Allah. Allah has related that story to us so we can learn from it and not fall into the traps of Satan. Some of us have learned that lesson, others have not.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

Where does it say that the Angels are scared of the dogs?

From Cute’s Post:

From BukhariVol. 7, #843 -
Narrated Salim’s father: "Once Gabriel promised to visit the Prophet but he delayed and the Prophet got worried about that. At last he came out and found Gabriel and complained to him of his grief (for his delay). Gabriel said to him, "We do not enter a place in which there is a picture or a dog."

It’s only one of them.

It is a waste of my time and yours for us to discuss the reasoning behind the laws of God. Again, this is exactly what the Devil did to convince Adam and Eve to disobey Allah. Allah has related that story to us so we can learn from it and not fall into the traps of Satan. Some of us have learned that lesson, others have not.

How do you know that the laws come from God or from Satan, when you don’t use your reason to measure it? And your heart, your humanity? Your love inside? They are given by God, aren’t they?

If I am not mistaken (brothers and sisters Catholic and Christian please corrects me if I am wrong), in Bible there is a verse that says, even Devil can disguise himself as Angel of Light.

Fox

 

[janG]

Exactly Fox! We are warned repeatedly to “test the spirits” to see if they are from God and to beware of false prophets. We are taught the true nature of the enemy. But instead of any valuable teaching about Satan and how he twists the truth to deceive people, Mohammed taught things like you shouldn’t pray at sunrise because it rises between the horns of the devil; satan stays in your nose while you sleep; when a donkey brays he has seen Satan; Satan ties 3 knots around your head while you’re sleeping and speaks to you; and bells are Satan’s musical instrument. There’s even a verse in the Koran that says “…feeble is the cunning of Satan.” Yikes!

I don’t quite understand how if bells are Satan’s instrument and the “inspiration” came to Mohammed “like ringing bells,” you can be absolutely positive the “ringing bells” inspiratons were from Gabriel and not Satan. Especially since we already know Mohammed couldn’t tell the difference between a Satanic inspiration and an angelic inspiration…he revealed the verses about the daughter gods and then had to retract them. We already know from that incident that Satan DID bring forth verses equal to the others so the “bring forth a sura like it” test is worthless too. How do they know that the verse that says he’d be corrected if he messed up wasn’t just another Satanic trick? Under Jewish law, any prophet who condoned other gods was to be put to death. End of story, no second chances because he was proven to be unreliable. But, we’re supposed to believe that God thought it was ok that Mohammed did it and that just because he uttered another verse that said he’d be corrected, we’re supposed to believe him. It’s not supposed to matter that his credibility was totally shot? But, of course, even thinking things like this is a violation of the first and only rule that really counts in Islam…never question Mohammed!!

 

[Lance]

raceland:

booklover,
if you had strong social ties like muslims, you wouldn’t be needing pets to lower blood pressure.

No thanks to your Muslim social ties. I would rater have a dog than strap 30 lbs. of C-4 and scrap iron to myself. Perhaps if Muslims had dogs they would not see the need to blow themselves up try to kill non-Muslims.

 

[Faith101]

Dear Faith,

From Cute’s Post:

From BukhariVol. 7, #843 -
Narrated Salim’s father: "Once Gabriel promised to visit the Prophet but he delayed and the Prophet got worried about that. At last he came out and found Gabriel and complained to him of his grief (for his delay). Gabriel said to him, "We do not enter a place in which there is a picture or a dog."

It’s only one of them.

where does it say that the Angels are *scared * of the dogs?

How do you know that the laws come from God or from Satan, when you don’t use your reason to measure it? And your heart, your humanity? Your love inside? They are given by God, aren’t they?

lol. Ok, so you dont have to understand the trinity (basic foundation of your belief), but I have to understand one simple rule that God has legislated.

If I am not mistaken (brothers and sisters Catholic and Christian please corrects me if I am wrong), in Bible there is a verse that says, even Devil can disguise himself as Angel of Light.

well then you have to think, was John Peter Luke and Mathew decieved by the Devil, as you follow divinily *inspired * text. these types of arguments are pointless, honestly.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

where does it say that the Angels are scared of the dogs?

The “facts”:

1. Jibril promised Mohammed PBUH to come at certain time and he must bring/inform something important from God.
2. Jibril didn’t come at the promised time (not usual).
3. Mohammed PBUH found out that there was a dog.
4. After the dog was gotten rid off, Jibril came.

So, am I wrong to conclude that somehow Jibril was afraid to dogs?

lol. Ok, so you dont have to understand the trinity (basic foundation of your belief), but I have to understand one simple rule that God has legislated

Well, I don’t know what you mean by your saying. But I conclude that you want to tuquoque. Do you mind explaining to me why the trinity concept broke the rule of humanity and harmful to human? May be in another thread.

well then you have to think, was John Peter Luke and Mathew decieved by the Devil, as you follow divinily inspired text. these types of arguments are pointless, honestly.

The key point is:
testing where the inspiration comes from

May be it’s good to tell you one story of my dear evangelist friend. He sometimes gets divine inspiration. Then one day, he got a vision of naked women and a whisper in him that said “This is not sinned.”
Since he was a very keen learner in his faith, he realized that while that was an inspiraton, it was certainly not from God.

If John, Peter and Luke wrote anything against Love, then I will think that it’s not divinely inspired. Have you ever tried to read Quran with this light? You can try from the first revelation there. Good luck.

Fox

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Faith101:

where does it say that the Angels are scared of the dogs?

Its not about the scared. I think what cute2904 and DeExupery wanted you to explain is why Jibreel did not want to enter the house just because there is a dog and a pictures. Can you explain simply and logic why? thanks.

 

[Faith101]

Cyber Knight:

Its not about the scared. I think what cute2904 and DeExupery wanted you to explain is why Jibreel did not want to enter the house just because there is a dog and a pictures. Can you explain simply and logic why? thanks.

I can explain simply: because God said so.

Logically, I have no idea. I accept the fact that God will make things forbidden for us…and by that He will test us…some of us choose to obey and some of us choose not to. Simple as that

Can you logically tell me what was wrong with the fruit on the tree that was in the Garden? Why did God, logically, forbid them to eat from it? It was a test…they failed…now it us up to us to learn the lesson.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

Logically, I have no idea. I accept the fact that God will make things forbidden for us…and by that He will test us…some of us choose to obey and some of us choose not to. Simple as that

Oh, so you mean God create us to test us? Please tell me more. So when Jibril doesn’t like dogs and he’s ok with cats, it means that this is God’s rule? Mething it’s interesting, yet it doesn’t tell us anything. What dogs have that will enable human to get news and salvation from God?

Can you logically tell me what was wrong with the fruit on the tree that was in the Garden? Why did God, logically, forbid them to eat from it? It was a test…they failed…now it us up to us to learn the lesson.

Faith, we are talking about dogs. If you want to discuss about the forbidden fruit, you can open up another thread.

Fox

 

[Faith101]

DeExupery:

Dear Faith,

Oh, so you mean God create us to test us? Please tell me more. So when Jibril doesn’t like dogs and he’s ok with cats, it means that this is God’s rule? Mething it’s interesting, yet it doesn’t tell us anything. What dogs have that will enable human to get news and salvation from God?

Islamically, Angels do not sin, they do not “fall”. They always obey God and they do nothing without His command.

Again, the questions you are asking me are probably the same ways Satan used to trick Adam and Eve. Alhamdulilah, i read that part of the Quran…and i’m not falling for it.

Faith, we are talking about dogs. If you want to discuss about the forbidden fruit, you can open up another thread.

it really is the same thing. God saying dont do something without giving any reason for it. Dont you believe there was a lesson for us to learn?

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

Islamically, Angels do not sin, they do not “fall”. They always obey God and they do nothing without His command.

Ok. We are talking about Islam. So you means Allah created Djinn and satan?

Again, the questions you are asking me are probably the same ways Satan used to trick Adam and Eve. Alhamdulilah, i read that part of the Quran…and i’m not falling for it.

Oh, am I a satan then? But honestly,do you think in creation, Allah also created dogs, and creates satan. So do you think Allah make this world like a kind of game? And He only wants us to behave and He can be a judge? But why? So God created us as toys, and gave us what to do and don’ts, and by that standard will reject those who don’t comply?
Is HE that merciful? I always thought God wants us to come to HIM, because we are precious to him, not mere toys.

it really is the same thing. God saying dont do something without giving any reason for it. Dont you believe there was a lesson for us to learn?

A lesson to accept everything without questioning is given by dictators. But I believe in the 99 names of Allah, dictator is not one of them. So you want me to believe that Allah want us not to use our brain (that He endows us all) and only follow HIS rules no matter what?

And how do you know that the rules all come from God? Even Prophet Mohammed PBUH ever got satanic verses. Please remember that.

Fox

 

[Faith101]

Ok. We are talking about Islam. So you means Allah created Djinn and satan?

Yes, Allah created the Jinn, which Satan is part of.

Oh, am I a satan then?

oh i dont know, i hope not

But honestly,do you think in creation, Allah also created dogs, and creates satan. So do you think Allah make this world like a kind of game? And He only wants us to behave and He can be a judge? But why? So God created us as toys, and gave us what to do and don’ts, and by that standard will reject those who don’t comply?
Is HE that merciful? I always thought God wants us to come to HIM, because we are precious to him, not mere toys.

I love the Quran.

B]We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them for a (mere) play . (Quran 21:16))

Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?" (Chapter #23, Verse #115)

Who took their religion as an amusement and play, and the life of the world deceived them." So this Day We shall forget them as they forgot their meeting of this Day, and as they used to reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). (Chapter #7, Verse #51)

A lesson to accept everything without questioning is given by dictators. But I believe in the 99 names of Allah, dictator is not one of them. So you want me to believe that Allah want us not to use our brain (that He endows us all) and only follow HIS rules no matter what?

Fox, please reread your post, it doesnt make any sense. How do you define worship?

I want to add this: if you believe that you dont have to follow any of God’s laws, then we can agree to disagree and leave it at that…b/c we will have no basis for a discussion. However, i believe that your opinion is just that…yours. And it does not reflect the majority of Christians who want to please God by doing what they believe He wants them to do.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

Yes, Allah created the Jinn, which Satan is part of.

Why? If you ask me why I ask “Why”, then I will ask you “Why Allah created us with brain to think?”

oh i dont know, i hope not

I may be a satan, but a good one…

I love the Quran.

That’s good. you read Quran because you love to read it, not because you are afraid of God’s punishment for not reading it.

Who took their religion as an amusement and play, and the life of the world deceived them." So this Day We shall forget them as they forgot their meeting of this Day, and as they used to reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). (Chapter #7, Verse #51)

This is where my confusion begins. If Allah mentioned that Religion is not for play, then why he created the situation like play. He created something good and something bad (like Djinn, Satan (like me… ), and dogs). Don’t you think God want us to reunite with Him in heaven? you and me and everyone else?

Fox, please reread your post, it doesnt make any sense. How do you define worship?

Worship, if I am not mistaken, means adore. We can adore someone falsely because we are afraid that someone (usually in power) can do harm on us. We can adore someone because we LOVE someone, and it’s not false, but pure from the heart.
The condition of worshipping when we are afraid is never true. Like in Dictatorship countries, many people talks good about the government, but they hate it to the bone.
The question: Do you think God wants us to worship Him in this situation?

I want to add this: if you believe that you dont have to follow any of God’s laws, then we can agree to disagree and leave it at that…b/c we will have no basis for a discussion. However, i believe that your opinion is just that…yours. And it does not reflect the majority of Christians who want to please God by doing what they believe He wants them to do.

We need to follow God’s law. **But the question, how to know that it’s God’s laws or Satan’s laws? ** Of course by analyzing and compare it. God’s laws will bring to betterment to humanity and human, because God is our Creator and wants us to be GOOD.

Fox (a good satan… )

 

[Faith101]

I may be a satan, but a good one…

how can you be a good satan?

Worship, if I am not mistaken, means adore

I adore my mother, does that mean I worship her? Pick another definition.

.

We can adore someone falsely because we are afraid that someone (usually in power) can do harm on us. We can adore someone because we LOVE someone, and it’s not false, but pure from the heart.

Again, which religion are you speaking about? Both the Bible and the Quran teach that one should fear the punishment of hell…the punishment of God.

But I will shew you whom you shall fear: fear ye him, who after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you, fear him. (Luke 12:5)

The condition of worshipping when we are afraid is never true. QUOTE]

ok, what does this have to do with Islam?

Fox, i really dont feal like debating the point back and forth. I believe Allah is my creator and I chose to obey all His laws. That’s it.