What happened to souls who died before Christ's resurrection?

[jas84173]

I often ponder this, what happened to the people who lived and died before Christ? What happened to people who were not even Jewish but worshipped multiple gods such as the Greeks and Romans? Are they doomed or would they have ever been able to know God?

 

[tweedlealice]

Well,
I am in bed and my Bible is not handy. From Abraham on, they waited in a holding place. Limbo or Paradise? I think it is at the end of Romans 2. We are judged according to the level of our understanding. Man has a longing for fellowship with God. Take the aboriginal natives of Australia. They worshiped the sun. They were kind, loving and helpful. That sun, God graced them with that knowledge to look for a Creator. Sun=Son.
In Africa with multiple pagan gods, a minister was trying to evangelize the tribes. A few of them would get into wars. The way they bargained peace was the one chief would give the other chief his son. The second chief did the same. So, the minister was able to convert them on this practice of giving a peace child. Jesus is our peace child. Now, these natives became believers.
Before monotheism, the goodness in a person was put there by God and the person had to receive that goodness from the Holy Spirit. God is the same, yesterday, today and forever. Today we look through a glass cloudly. Later, we shall see clearly. I think that is in I Corinthians after “love never fails”
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice

 

[littlestsouls2]

"But even before Christ came, Our Father did provide for the gentiles, who were not among the chosen people. St. Paul reasons this way in Romans 3. 29: “Is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not the God also of the gentiles?” St. Paul means that if God did not take care for the salvation of all, He would act as though He were the God of the Jews only. But, St. Paul insists, He did take care for all. He did this through faith. He did this even for those who had never heard of the future coming of Christ.

We can see this from what St. Paul tells us in Romans 2. 14-16. There Paul says that Spirit of God, who is of course the same as the Spirit of Christ, writes His law in the hearts of all. Those who accept that law, may not know that what they are accepting is the Spirit of Christ. Still, **they really accept that Spirit of Christ, if they do what He tells them in their hearts to do. **So they have what we could all an implicit faith. So, because they accept the Spirit of Christ — without knowing that that is what they are doing — they can even be called Christians. For St. Justin the Martyr, around 150 A.D., in his First Apology (46) said that many in the past who even might have seemed to be atheists, were really Christians, because they followed the Divine Word. That is what we have just described. St. Augustine wrote about this, in his Retractations (1. 13. 3) where he answered the pagan Celsus. Celsus said it seemed as though God took no care of people in past times. St. Augustine said: "This very thing which is now called the Christian religion existed before. It was not absent from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the flesh, and then the true religion, that already existed, began to be called Christian."

• Fr. William Most (‘Basic Catholic Catechism’, part 1)

“I next saw our Lord with his triumphant procession enter a species of purgatory which was filled with those good pagans who, having but a faint glimmering of the truth, had longed for its fulfillment."

• Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich

 

[Gorgias]

I am in bed and my Bible is not handy. From Abraham on, they waited in a holding place. Limbo or Paradise?

No, not ‘limbo’, per se, if by that you mean the ‘place’ where unbaptized infants are said to go. (That never was an official doctrinal teaching of the Church.)

And no, not only from Abraham on – all who lived prior to Christ’s Incarnation had a chance at salvation, and not just the Jews who were the descendants of Abraham!

The way we’d describe it has a few different names: the ‘bosom of Abraham’, or ‘Paradise’ or the ‘limbo of the Patriarchs’. What it means is that, although they had led virtuous lives, they weren’t able to attain to heaven until Christ’s redemptive sacrifice was complete. So, they ‘waited’, as it were, until He came to them after dying on the Cross. He opened the gates to heaven, and they were able to attain to heaven at that point. This ‘place’ no longer exists (if we want to call it a ‘place’ at all, since it was inhabited by immaterial souls); there no longer is a need for it, since all who are virtuous are able to attain to heaven now!

 

[The_Apostolate]

I believe, that they are resting,waiting for Jesus, to resurrection from their graves.at the end.

 

[Cider]

From the CCC

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481** Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482**

 

[TheDoctor]

From the CCC

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481** Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482**

This is also called the “Limbo of the Fathers” if I am not mistaken. This often causes confusion with the limbo for unbaptized infants that some theologians proposed so when we say “limbo” we need to be precise as to which we mean.

 

[Gorgias]

This is also called the “Limbo of the Fathers” if I am not mistaken. This often causes confusion with the limbo for unbaptized infants that some theologians proposed so when we say “limbo” we need to be precise as to which we mean.

 

[PJM]

I often ponder this, what happened to the people who lived and died before Christ? What happened to people who were not even Jewish but worshipped multiple gods such as the Greeks and Romans? Are they doomed or would they have ever been able to know God?

Check out this site; too much information to cut and post

catholicplanet.com/RCC/baptism-limbo.htm

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[tweedlealice]

From the CCC

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481** Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482**

Okay now, why would the just be in a flaming inferno??? This is a tad upsetting. I realize we are talking before Christ. But, there was still limbo for babies and limbo of our Father’s of which I plead total ignorance. What of purgatory, it had to be there. I can’t understand why the just would be crispy critters in HELL?
Wanting a different answer here.
In temporary stupidity,
Tweedlealice:shrug:

 

[Gorgias]

Okay now, why would the just be in a flaming inferno???

Umm… pardon? Where are you getting “flaming inferno” from?

Here’s the thing: you’re using a current definition of hell (i.e., the eternal destination of the damned) as if it were the definition of Sheol (i.e., the abode of the dead). Moreover, you seem to be unaware that the the knowledge of eternal reward and punishment has undergone development throughout Jewish and Christian history. Finally, it seems that it might be beneficial to you to get a firmer grasp on what the Church teaches vis-a-vis purgatory and what it (doesn’t!) teach regarding ‘limbo’.

This is a tad upsetting. I realize we are talking before Christ. But, there was still limbo for babies and limbo of our Father’s of which I plead total ignorance. What of purgatory, it had to be there. I can’t understand why the just would be crispy critters in HELL?
Wanting a different answer here.

The Catechism might provide a good answer for you, to tell the truth…

In the online U.S. Catholic Catechism for Adults, in chapter 13, the questions that you are asking are addressed. It would be best, I think, to get the info straight from the horse’s mouth, as it were.

However, if you want a quick run-down…

Originally, the Jewish people did not believe in eternal reward and punishment – rather than ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’, they thought that good people were rewarded here on earth, and bad people were punished here on earth (or by death). They believed that all people went to the same place – ‘Sheol’ or ‘Hades’, which was the ‘abode of the dead.’ There, you simply existed – without family or access to God. At the time of Jesus, they still hadn’t reached consensus: the Pharisees taught that heaven and hell existed, while the Sadducees taught that there was no eternal reward or punishment.

So… according to the ‘old’ way of thinking, everyone went to Sheol – no “pillar of fire”, no “eternal damnation”. Christ taught that there is ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’, and at the end of time, everyone will end up in one of those two destinations. When we talk about these two destinations in this way, we really are talking about “harps and clouds” on one hand and “fire and brimstone” on the other. However, in terms of the old ways of thinking, when the abode of the dead is referred to as ‘Sheol’ or ‘Hades’ (or even ‘hell’!), that only means the ‘netherworld’, and not the ‘fire and brimstone’ destination. It’s confusing, but the terms came to be used in various ways throughout time while the doctrines were being developed.

In Christian theology, we believe that no one could attain to heaven until Christ’s redemptive death on the cross. That leaves an open question, doesn’t it? Where was everyone up until then? What happened at that time?

The Catholic answer is that the just – who would have been able to attain to heaven, but could not, until Christ died and rose – were in the “abode of the dead”. Other names for this ‘place’ (which, after all, isn’t really a place… since there are only souls there, not bodies!) are the “Bosom of Abraham” or the “Limbo of the Fathers.” What the Church teaches is that, having died, Christ went to these people, and took them to heaven. They weren’t in ‘hell’ (that is, the ‘abode of the damned’) – they were in ‘Sheol’ (that is, the ‘abode of the dead’).

That’s why we’re not saying that the just were experiencing “fire and brimstone”.

Does that help? Any other questions?

 

[Olrac]

Before christ was born on earth people could recieve forgiveness by sacrificing animals (according to the old testament). So i believe that if people before christs time followed Gods rules they could be saved. The salvation of the people who believed in roman and greek Gods depends on if they had a chance to know God and turned away. In this case they could not recieve salvation but if these people who beleived in other Gods lived in an area where juddaism was scarce they would not be held accountable for not praying to God. IM NOT TOO SURE IF THIS ANSWER IS CORRECT.

 

[Gorgias]

IM NOT TOO SURE IF THIS ANSWER IS CORRECT.

Let’s take a look…

Before christ was born on earth people could recieve forgiveness by sacrificing animals (according to the old testament).

Well… not exactly. Hebrews 10:3-4 states, “in those sacrifices there is only a yearly remembrance of sins, for it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats take away sins.”

So i believe that if people before christs time followed Gods rules they could be saved.

If that were the case, then why would it be necessary for Christ to come at all?

The salvation of the people who believed in roman and greek Gods depends on if they had a chance to know God and turned away. In this case they could not recieve salvation but if these people who beleived in other Gods lived in an area where juddaism was scarce they would not be held accountable for not praying to God.

It sounds like you’re trying to explain things in terms of Lumen gentium, paragraphs 14-16. The thing is, though, that LG is describing the current state of affairs (now that Christ has already made his redemptive sacrifice and founded the Church), and you’re trying to make these teachings apply to the time before Christ. I don’t think that’s an approach that has legs…

 

[tweedlealice]

From the CCC

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481** Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482**

Okay now, why would the just be in a flaming inferno??? This is a tad upsetting. I realize we are talking before Christ. But, there was still limbo for babies and limbo of our Father’s of which I plead total ignorance. What of purgatory, it had to be there. I can’t understand why the just would be crispy critters in HELL?
Wanting a different answer here.
In temporary stupidity,
Tweedlealice:shrug:

 

[Jesus_123]

+For those who died before Christ’s death on the Cross . . . in the **Old :bible1: Testament **times it was revealed that there were . . . two (2) levels of hell . . . spoken of . . . and this truth is also revealed in the **New :bible1: Testament ** passage about Lazarus the holy begger . . . and an uncrossable chasm existed between them . . .

One of those levels was called. . . “Abraham’s Bosom” . . . (Paradise) . . . this is what the sweet . . . Psalmist of God . . . :harp: . . . King David. . . knew and spoke of when he shared he would go to his little son who died shortly after birth . . . because his little son couldn’t come back to him here on earth . . . (2 Samuel 12:23) . . .

Below is the passage in the New Testament sharing the two level nature of hell . . . the upper level of which . . . no longer exists . . . since Christ Jesus took all those waiting souls resting in Father Abraham’s Bosom to heaven with him . . . after His atoning death on the Cross . . .

In Jesus teaching in **Sacred :bible1: Scripture **involving the damned in hell . . . it is stated that the chasm between the two states revealed was . . . absolute/fixed/permanent . . . and there was no crossing of the chasm from either side available to anyone on either side. This is not purgatory, which purgatory as taught by our Holy Mother Church is a level in heaven for the purification of the souls of God’s children . . . and is no where near hell . . .

Our time on earth is a gift from God, which time is revelation and “decision” time as to where we will go after death . . . we can choose from the heart to seek the LORD . . . or choose not to *. . . after death comes the judgement . . .

​

*. . . :coffeeread: . . .
The Holy :bible1: Bible
Luke 16:20-31

20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, 21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels :angel1: into Abraham’s bosom.

And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. 23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: 24 And he cried, and said: *Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. *

25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is FIXED A GREAT CHAOS: so that they who would pass from hence to you, CANNOT, nor from thence come hither.

27 And he said: *Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, 28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. *

29 And Abraham said to him: *They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. *30

But he said: *No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. *

31 And he said to him: If they hear NOT Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.​

**​

. . . all for Jesus+
… . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+​

 

[Jesus_123]

**. . . :coffeeread: . . . **
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
ARTICLE 5
"HE DESCENDED INTO HELL ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"
Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

632
The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the **crucified one **sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479

**633 **
Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell"—Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their **Savior **in Abraham’s bosom, whom **Christ the Lord **delivered when **he **descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483​

*A gentle correction in regard to the . . . “theory of limbo” . . . *

Limbo is not a definitive dogmatic teaching of our Holy Mother Catholic Church . . . it is a speculative theory only that has floated down through the ages within the Church . . . but it is not a Magesterial dogma . . . below is a recommendation made by Pope Benedict XVI prior to his becoming Pope in regard to the . . . “theory of limbo” . . .

. . . :compcoff: . . .
"Back in the 1980s (see The Ratzinger Report), Cardinal Ratzinger had already expressed his personal opinion that the idea of limbo should be abandoned. Here’s what he said:

‘Limbo was never a defined truth of the faith. Personally – and here I am speaking more as a theologian and not as Prefect of the Congregation – I would abandon it since it was only a theological hypothesis.’ " - Jimmy Aiken

Link: jimmyakin.com/2006/10/limbo_in_limbo.html
​

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear LORD Our Saviour+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+​

 

[Jesus_123]

"But even before Christ came, Our Father did provide for the gentiles, who were not among the chosen people. St. Paul reasons this way in Romans 3. 29: “Is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not the God also of the gentiles?” St. Paul means that if God did not take care for the salvation of all, He would act as though He were the God of the Jews only. But, St. Paul insists, He did take care for all. He did this through faith. He did this even for those who had never heard of the future coming of Christ.

We can see this from what St. Paul tells us in Romans 2. 14-16. There Paul says that Spirit of God, who is of course the same as the Spirit of Christ, writes His law in the hearts of all. Those who accept that law, may not know that what they are accepting is the Spirit of Christ. Still, **they really accept that Spirit of Christ, if they do what He tells them in their hearts to do. **So they have what we could all an implicit faith. So, because they accept the Spirit of Christ — without knowing that that is what they are doing — they can even be called Christians. For St. Justin the Martyr, around 150 A.D., in his First Apology (46) said that many in the past who even might have seemed to be atheists, were really Christians, because they followed the Divine Word. That is what we have just described. St. Augustine wrote about this, in his Retractations (1. 13. 3) where he answered the pagan Celsus. Celsus said it seemed as though God took no care of people in past times. St. Augustine said: "This very thing which is now called the Christian religion existed before. It was not absent from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the flesh, and then the true religion, that already existed, began to be called Christian."

• Fr. William Most (‘Basic Catholic Catechism’, part 1)

“I next saw our Lord with his triumphant procession enter a species of purgatory which was filled with those good pagans who, having but a faint glimmering of the truth, had longed for its fulfillment."

• Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich

*Thanks much for the above post littlestsouls2 . . . *

Had a little portion of quiet time this morning in the Lord to review and reflect on the above teachings . . . and was reminded of a beautiful postcard we received which we keep . . . always visible . . . on the table right next to our front door . . . which pictures our . . . Wonderful Lord’s . . . blest . . . miraculous . . . shining . . . guiding . . . ". . . star in the east . . ." gifted to the holy " . . . wise men from the east . . . " whom GOD began guiding . … . long before . . . our . . . Sweet Lord . . . JESUS . . . the Blessed Christ of God . . . our Redeemer . . God Incarnate . . . was born . . . and who journeyed from afar . . . with gifts for Him . . . to Bethlehem to welcome . . . GOD WITH US . . . here on earth . . .

:bible1: "When Jesus therefore was born in Bethlehem of Juda, in the days of king Herod, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem. Saying, Where is He that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the east, and are come to adore Him. … Who having heard the king, went their way; and behold the star which they had seen in the east, went before them, until it came and stood over where the Child was. And seeing the star they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And entering into the house, they found the Child with Mary His mother, and falling down they adored Him; and opening their treasures, they offered Him gifts; gold, frankincense, and myrrh. - Matthew 2:1-2, 9-11​

I often ponder this, what happened to the people who lived and died before Christ? What happened to people who were not even Jewish but worshipped multiple gods such as the Greeks and Romans? Are they doomed or would they have ever been able to know God?

The three wise men are living answers from Sacred :bible1: Scripture to the the above poster . . . jas84173’s . . . questions and concerns about persons not-Jewish . . . gentiles . . . and our . . . Gracious Heavenly Father’s . . . love . . . care . . . guidance . . . and abundant provision . . . always available for souls truly and wholeheartedly seeking after Him . . .

*Am now in the process of browsing through your blog littlestsouls2 . . . as the . . . Good Lord . . . and time . . . allow . . . quite a library of work . . . *

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of Our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . thank you Blessed Holy Mother Church+​

​

 

[Wesrock]

Okay now, why would the just be in a flaming inferno??? This is a tad upsetting. I realize we are talking before Christ. But, there was still limbo for babies and limbo of our Father’s of which I plead total ignorance. What of purgatory, it had to be there. I can’t understand why the just would be crispy critters in HELL?
Wanting a different answer here.
In temporary stupidity,
Tweedlealice:shrug:

You misunderstand. Sheol (in Greek, Hades) is like a limbo, or a waiting room. It’s not the same as the fiery pit. All of the dead, evil or just, waited in this limbo prior to the Christ. Hell in this sense just means the abode of the dead, not the fiery pit of eternal punishment which we commonly use the word for now. It’s called hell because the people there lack the vision of God that those in heaven do. But there was not really any punishment there.

I’m kind of distinguishing them as separate physical places, which doesn’t make a lot of sense given the absence of any physical body, but the experience for those souls was essentially that of being in a limbo and not a place of punishment or even purification.

 

[tawny]

From the CCC

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481** Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482**

Correct.