What Happened to the Charismatics?

[Marysoffspring7]

in this diocese there is a close overlap, in fact many of those who have been strongest and most persistent over the years were part of the CCR years ago, and are also the ones who have kept up with it through their prayer groups, retreats, seminars etc. They are also prominent among those who form the new pro-life and orthodox groups, and in large part responsible for Total Consecration to Mary groups, opening up more Adoration chapels etc.

I agree, puzzleannie. I was a member of our Charismatic prayer group’s core team for 18 years. We had many Life in the Spirit seminars and the membership in our group waxed and waned over those years. But I noticed that those who came through the Life in the Spirit seminars, whether they remained as active members of the prayer group or not, became much more active members in our parish - lectors, Eucharistic Ministers, catechists, permanent deacons and our DRE! There was much evidence of changed hearts and lives. I was one of those. I came back to the church after 10 years of being away. God moved in my heart in a very powerful way during a Life in the Spirit seminar. You can *never *tell me that the Holy Spirit isn’t working in the Charismatic Renewal. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not a “new sacrament” – it is praying to release the gifts we received in Baptism and Confirmation in our lives, gifts that we may have put aside and left unopened. Praise God for the Renewal. Our parish wouldn’t be the same without it.
M

 

[schatzi]

I wrote on a different thread that I returned to the sacraments almost 30 years ago through the Charismatic Renewal. One priest who led many of the charismatic retreats I attended talked often of the purpose for renewal groups (charismatic, marriage encounter, cursillo, etc), which was to integrate us deeper into the life of the Church.
The last few Holy Spirit conferences given here have been attended mostly by people aged 60+. I’ve been dismayed at the lack of vibrancy in the talks, music, and liturgy. It’s almost as if these folks don’t want to leave the 1970’s, when the renewal was fresh and powerful. I realize that this doesn’t happen everywhere; the Holy Spirit moves where He will.
I don’t believe the renewal is gone. Possibly it’s spirit is alive in parish life. Our D.R.E. is a gentleman (Charismatic) who brings his gifts to our parish, and we’ve seen an explosion in converts here, as well as an increase in young men discerning the priesthood.
High school and college students are flocking to Mass in record numbers. Eucharistic adoration and Marian devotion are spreading like wildfire. Eucharistic conferences are bringing families together in teaching and worship.
It’s a wonderful time to bring your gifts to God and to His Church.
Anyway, that’s what’s happening with this Charismatic

 

[SeekerJen]

Perhaps they took the next logical step and joined Protestant churches. A number of “charismatic Catholics” whom I knew in the '90s did exactly that.

I would guess that comments and attitudes such as the above don’t encourage Charismatics to come forward on these forums.

 

[marlap2]

One of the fruits of the Charismatic Renewal is my conversion. I attended a conference as an “at best” agnostic, although I had been searching for most of my life for the existence of God. There was something tangible in the faith of those around me that I had never experienced before.

Long story short. I came into the Church ten years ago, and although I do not attend our very active Charistmatic prayer meetings, I have immersed myself as much as possible into the teachings of the church, assist at RCIA, am a lector, part of the parish council, volunteer with a street ministry, and to this day thank those devoted people who are so docile to the Holy Spirit.

They are God’s gift to the Church, as much as those with a holy devotion to Mary and the Saints, to Liturgy, and to Evangelization.

As long as Our Lord deems it necessary for the Holy Spirit to be active in our family, I believe there will be Charismatics.

Just my two cents…

God Bless!
Marla

 

[schatzi]

One of the fruits of the Charismatic Renewal is my conversion. I attended a conference as an “at best” agnostic, although I had been searching for most of my life for the existence of God. There was something tangible in the faith of those around me that I had never experienced before.

Long story short. I came into the Church ten years ago, and although I do not attend our very active Charistmatic prayer meetings, I have immersed myself as much as possible into the teachings of the church, assist at RCIA, am a lector, part of the parish council, volunteer with a street ministry, and to this day thank those devoted people who are so docile to the Holy Spirit.

They are God’s gift to the Church, as much as those with a holy devotion to Mary and the Saints, to Liturgy, and to Evangelization.

As long as Our Lord deems it necessary for the Holy Spirit to be active in our family, I believe there will be Charismatics.

Just my two cents…

God Bless!
Marla

ALLELUIA!!!:extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy:

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by marysoffspring:

You can *never *tell me that the Holy Spirit isn’t working in the Charismatic Renewal. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not a “new sacrament” – it is praying to release the gifts we received in Baptism and Confirmation in our lives, gifts that we may have put aside and left unopened. Praise God for the Renewal. Our parish wouldn’t be the same without it.

That’s what I was taught when I was involved in the charismatic group near my parish. I believe that many Catholics unfortunately lash out at charismatics, claiming they are not “Catholic” enough since they follow “Pentecostal” practices. On the other hand, I’ve known a few charismatics who have put down traditional Catholics for not being alive in the Spirit, and having a too solemn Mass.

I’m not really involved anymore in either the Catholic charismatic movement or the traditional Catholic movement, so I try to stay out of these arguments. I have a good number of friends from both camps though, so sometimes it’s hard not to get involved somewhat.

 

[TOP]

Sounds like I want to be a traditional charismatic Catholic. Traditional Mass and charismatic retreats with proper leadership.Tim

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by TOP:

Sounds like I want to be a traditional charismatic Catholic. Traditional Mass and charismatic retreats with proper leadership.Tim

This is IMHO (and in the opinion of many others): Charismatic spirituality is, aesthetically speaking, not compatible with a Tridentine Latin Mass. Perhaps there is no significant contradiction in theology, but I’m talking liturgical aesthetics here.

 

[Reepicheep]

This is IMHO (and in the opinion of many others): Charismatic spirituality is, aesthetically speaking, not compatible with a Tridentine Latin Mass. Perhaps there is no significant contradiction in theology, but I’m talking liturgical aesthetics here.

Not a problem, Madaglan. Just don’t pray in tongues audibly during the Mass. Don’t lift your hands to praise, unless you know it’s accepted behavior.
Plenty of chance to do both during the prayer meetings.

 

[TOP]

This is IMHO (and in the opinion of many others): Charismatic spirituality is, aesthetically speaking, not compatible with a Tridentine Latin Mass. Perhaps there is no significant contradiction in theology, but I’m talking liturgical aesthetics here.

And I’m am talking about a retreat , not Mass. With guidence from a Priest, I think it could be useful in the “building up”. Maybe I don’t understand what charismatic means. I thought it was mostly the sharing of spiritual gifts and discernment.
Retreat (spiritual)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The term retreat has several related meanings, all of which have in common the notion of safety or temporarily removing oneself from one’s usual environment. A retreat can be taken for reasons related to spirituality, stress, health, lifestyle, or social or ecological concerns. Increasingly, organizations hold retreats to focus board and staff members on key issues such as strategic planning, enhancing communication and collaboration, problem-solving and creative thinking.

A retreat can either be a time of solitude or a community experience. Some retreats are held in silence, and on others there may be a great deal of conversation, depending on the understanding and accepted practices of the host facility and/or the participant(s). Retreats are often conducted at rural or remote locations, either privately, or at a retreat centre such as a monastery.

Spiritual retreats allow time for reflection, prayer, or meditation. They are considered essential in Buddhism[1], and are also popular in many Christian churches, including evangelical Protestantism, Roman Catholicism and Anglicanism.

 

[Madaglan]

TOP,

I have no qualms with retreats.

Charismatic can refer to simply gifts of the Spirit that all Christians receive in baptism; it also can refer to the movement within Catholicism that emphasizes what most Christians would call “extra-ordinary” gifts, although most of these gifts are found in the NT, especially but not always in reference to the special Pentecostal gifts (speaking in tongues, prophecy, etc.) Most of the charismatic groups I’ve known use more up-beat music, often utilizing guitars, drums, cymbals and other instruments to this effect. The music used at these Masses is mostly contemporary, or older music given a contemporary sound.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant with “traditional Mass.” Most of the time I hear this term used, it is in reference to the TLM–the Tridentine Latin Mass (AKA The Old Mass, The Traditional Mass, etc.) I was simply pointing out that, IMHO, charismatic spirituality does not aesthetically accord with the liturgics of the Tridentine Latin Mass, which is, among other things, much more solemn, in addition to placing a greater emphasis on sacred silence than most NO Masses today. On these latter two points I’m not putting down the NO but am simply pointed out well-known facts. I more frequently attend Divine Liturgy than TLM’s, and the DL is much different than the TLM and is not nearly as “solemn” or focused on moments of “sacred silence,” IMHO.

The TLM is a solemn celebration that follows Christ as he is led up to the Cross and crucified for our sins; Charismatic spirituality emphasizes joyful, very spirited celebration in thanksgiving to God for what He has done. The two are not ontologically opposed, but it’s hard to have the two go on at the same time, in the same place. It’s like trying to have a human funeral and a wedding in the same service, in the same building, the same liturgy, with the same music, etc. I suppose, theologically speaking, this is accomplished in the Divine Liturgy… but I’m talking about practical human affairs here.

 

[TOP]

TOP,

I have no qualms with retreats.

Charismatic can refer to simply gifts of the Spirit that all Christians receive in baptism; it also can refer to the movement within Catholicism that emphasizes what most Christians would call “extra-ordinary” gifts, although most of these gifts are found in the NT, especially but not always in reference to the special Pentecostal gifts (speaking in tongues, prophecy, etc.) Most of the charismatic groups I’ve known use more up-beat music, often utilizing guitars, drums, cymbals and other instruments to this effect. The music used at these Masses is mostly contemporary, or older music given a contemporary sound.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant with “traditional Mass.” Most of the time I hear this term used, it is in reference to the TLM–the Tridentine Latin Mass (AKA The Old Mass, The Traditional Mass, etc.) I was simply pointing out that, IMHO, charismatic spirituality does not aesthetically accord with the liturgics of the Tridentine Latin Mass, which is, among other things, much more solemn, in addition to placing a greater emphasis on sacred silence than most NO Masses today. On these latter two points I’m not putting down the NO but am simply pointed out well-known facts. I more frequently attend Divine Liturgy than TLM’s, and the DL is much different than the TLM and is not nearly as “solemn” or focused on moments of “sacred silence,” IMHO.

The TLM is a solemn celebration that follows Christ as he is led up to the Cross and crucified for our sins; Charismatic spirituality emphasizes joyful, very spirited celebration in thanksgiving to God for what He has done. The two are not ontologically opposed, but it’s hard to have the two go on at the same time, in the same place. It’s like trying to have a human funeral and a wedding in the same service, in the same building, the same liturgy, with the same music, etc. I suppose, theologically speaking, this is accomplished in the Divine Liturgy… but I’m talking about practical human affairs here.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I’m all for the TLM. My wife is Byzantine and is used to a very tradtional Mass. I think it is beautiful and look forward to being part of one when it is slowly brought into my parish at certain times. But I’m also very interested in the gifts of the Spirit. Having had an experience that brought me back to the Church and confirm my belief in God had some lingering affects I would like to understand more thoughly. I would really like to “discuss” rather then incorperate it into worship. I’m traditional in that respect. But feel if approved, some things can be brought up in homilies if it can be for the building up of the Church. That would require close supervision of an involved Priest. I wouldn’t want in to turn into a fiasco without discerment. I feel like I was left alone to deal with certain things I didn’t expect to have happen. If it wasn’t for learning about gifts on these boards, and from St. Paul of course, I would have been completely in the dark about them and if they serve any purpose, would be left as meaningless insights. I would like to see this addressed at Church rather then seem hidden and a shadow cast on them. Thanks for the info, Tim

 

[Pani_Rose]

Tim what part of W V are you in? Are you close to the PA, OH,
W V border? Then it would be easy for you to get to Steubenville occassionaly.

My husband and I are both Byzantine Catholic.

All the Charismatics I know and am aware of, as Steubenville is actually where we are from, are very devoted to the Eucharist, Adoration of it, the Bible, Our Lady, the Pope, their love and devotion to the Church has only grown stronger over the years. That is the working of the Holy Spirit.

If folks really want answers, read more on the Catholic Charismatic Forum at ccc.garg.com

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by Pani Rose:

Tim what part of W V are you in? Are you close to the PA, OH,
W V border? Then it would be easy for you to get to Steubenville occassionaly.

All the Charismatics I know and am aware of, as Steubenville is actually where we are from, are very devoted to the Eucharist, Adoration of it, the Bible, Our Lady, the Pope, their love and devotion to the Church has only grown stronger over the years. That is the working of the Holy Spirit.

The best time to go is during the CCC (Catholic Charismatic Conference) held in the summer. Franciscan University of Steubenville used to be very, very charismatic, but things are changing a little. The charismatic movement is still very much alive there–but overall I would consider the predominate worship style there at present as “contemporary” rather than “charismatic.” Things should be interesting once the TLM comes to town.

 

[TOP]

Tim what part of W V are you in? Are you close to the PA, OH,
W V border? Then it would be easy for you to get to Steubenville occassionaly.

My husband and I are both Byzantine Catholic.

All the Charismatics I know and am aware of, as Steubenville is actually where we are from, are very devoted to the Eucharist, Adoration of it, the Bible, Our Lady, the Pope, their love and devotion to the Church has only grown stronger over the years. That is the working of the Holy Spirit.

If folks really want answers, read more on the Catholic Charismatic Forum at ccc.garg.com

Thanks for the lead and link. I’m in the middle of the panhandle between MD and VA, 8 miles south of the Potomac river. It’s still clean up here . I’ll look into this. My wife is very traditional and doesn’t even like me explaining the Eucharist to her. She just knows its Jesus. She is content in her faith. This would be a personel thing to help me understand some events and help in discernment and what purpose it serves. I feel like I’m sitting on a timebomb, so much has happened in a short period. Thanks again, Tim

 

[CB_Catholic]

The best time to go is during the CCC (Catholic Charismatic Conference) held in the summer. Franciscan University of Steubenville used to be very, very charismatic, but things are changing a little. The charismatic movement is still very much alive there–but overall I would consider the predominate worship style there at present as “contemporary” rather than “charismatic.” Things should be interesting once the TLM comes to town.

My friends and I occasionally go down to the Fesival of Praise they have on the first Saturday of the month during the school year and I am impressed by the number of students attending and their obvious devotion to the Lord. I often think that these young people, so full of the love of God, are our hope for the future of our Church and will be the future leaders in our Church. I have never seen disorder or disrespect at these prayer meetings, and the kids are as friendly and helpful and polite as can be. How many college-aged kids would gladly spend their Saturday nights at a prayer meeting? Yet hundreds of them show up to praise the Lord. I’ve heard some of their conversations after the events, and they are talking about Jesus, and praying for each other. I find this to be awesome.

This summer we went to the Holy Hour (Holy 2 hours!) on the weekend of the Conference and it was one of the most beautiful Holy Hours I have ever been to. The Holy Spirit is present in a most powerful way at that University.

 

[richardwy]

Not a problem, Madaglan. Just don’t pray in tongues audibly during the Mass. Don’t lift your hands to praise, unless you know it’s accepted behavior.

Tis’ true.

Life changing, and abiding too.

 

[Lepanto]

I would guess that comments and attitudes such as the above don’t encourage Charismatics to come forward on these forums.

OK, let’s examine my two sentences:

Historical Fact: The Catholic Charismatic Movement would not have started back in the late 1960s if it were not for the post-conciliar confusion and the influence of certain Protestant Pentecostal movements.

Personal Fact: A number of “charismatic Catholics” whom I knew in the '90s did indeed leave the Catholic Church and joined Assemblies of God congregations.

And if JP2 actually “approved” of the Catholic Charismatic Movement, that in no way invalidates those two facts.

 

[brigid12]

I was “Baptized in the Holy Spirit” (had probably a dozen people put their hands on my shoulder and pray over me in tongues to receive the Holy Spirit.) I didn’t experience anything and actually felt somewhat uncomfortable. In my own experience, I wouldn’t call it a life-changing experience.

I’m not saying that the other people don’t experience anything. The woman in the pew in front of me was crying after she was prayed over (tears of joy, it would seem, possibly from an experience). I just know the charismatic movement is not for me. .

I had the very same experience. No response that I noticed then. When I am alone, with p&w music I dance and sing, and occasionally I even pray in tongues, but when I’ve been to prayer meetings I feel “dull”. It seems to be only personally oriented for me and not conducive to groups.

 

[Leopard]

…Historical Fact: The Catholic Charismatic Movement would not have started back in the late 1960s if it were not for the post-conciliar confusion and the influence of certain Protestant Pentecostal movements…

While we can know a historical fact that did happen, we cannot know what would or would have not happened if what had happened had not happened. Unless one is omniscient.

Protestant pentecostalism, while not in possession of the fullness of truth entrusted to the Catholic Church, still contains some truth and persons within these movements can respond to and recive God’s grace.